Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman after the CU: Gunner or Sniper
SickSix wrote:
Actually, no. US infantry use carbines. And many other forces' weapons would be better classified as carbines also. Armies (all over the world) are using shorterweapons with smaller rounds, and variable modes of fire, not to mention less stopping power. The hayday of 20+ inch barrels is over, along with stopping power. Now, it's pretty much about putting as many rounds down range as possible.
M16 is still the main small arm of the US military. It's a rifle. The M4 carbine, if that is what you are refering to, is not issued to all infantry. It's mostly issued to special forces units, airborne, and other such units. There have been a number of complaints about the M4 from use in the current conflicts. Mostly in that the shorter barrel results in lower velocities and less accuracy. While the higher operating preassures cause a higher failure rate.
A shorter weapon doesn't mean it isn't a rifle. A number of militaries (UK and France)use bullpup designs which are rifles. They are just designed so that their overall length is shorter. Their barrell length still classifies them as rifles however. And the difference between a carbine and rifle is defined by the barrel length. Not the overall weapon length.
The US military is looking at possibly replacing the M16 with the M4. At least the US Army is. I believe the Marines still use an M16. Also that is only one military. Everyone else is still using rifles for the most part. So most Infantry still do use Rifles.
Also a group of rifleman is a deadly thing (think firing lines). A melees charge would just melt under a grp of riflemen doing /flurryshot2 in unison and if 2 or more riflemen focused on the same target doing /headshot3, well OUCH. As such the best offensensive or defensive weapon to use against a grp of rifleman is another rifleman.
When you factor in group tactics to rifleman, they become serious threats to the enemy. Cant wait till they increase the max range of our weaps, be nice to ownz0r those TKM clones for a change.
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
The day the Marines issue Carbines to regular infantry instead is when the chosin Resivoir Boils over...
Waste93 wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Actually, no. US infantry use carbines. And many other forces' weapons would be better classified as carbines also. Armies (all over the world) are using shorterweapons with smaller rounds, and variable modes of fire, not to mention less stopping power. The hayday of 20+ inch barrels is over, along with stopping power. Now, it's pretty much about putting as many rounds down range as possible.
M16 is still the main small arm of the US military. It's a rifle. The M4 carbine, if that is what you are refering to, is not issued to all infantry. It's mostly issued to special forces units, airborne, and other such units. There have been a number of complaints about the M4 from use in the current conflicts. Mostly in that the shorter barrel results in lower velocities and less accuracy. While the higher operating preassures cause a higher failure rate.
A shorter weapon doesn't mean it isn't a rifle. A number of militaries (UK and France)use bullpup designs which are rifles. They are just designed so that their overall length is shorter. Their barrell length still classifies them as rifles however. And the difference between a carbine and rifle is defined by the barrel length. Not the overall weapon length.
The US military is looking at possibly replacing the M16 with the M4. At least the US Army is. I believe the Marines still use an M16. Also that is only one military. Everyone else is still using rifles for the most part. So most Infantry still do use Rifles.
M16 is still the main small arm of the US military. It's a rifle. The M4 carbine, if that is what you are refering to, is not issued to all infantry. It's mostly issued to special forces units, airborne, and other such units. There have been a number of complaints about the M4 from use in the current conflicts. Mostly in that the shorter barrel results in lower velocities
Isnt the M4 an old semi-auto carbine used in ealry Vietnam?
this is the Colt M4
BlackJango wrote:
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
The day the Marines issue Carbines to regular infantry instead is when the chosin Resivoir Boils over...
Waste93 wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Actually, no. US infantry use carbines. And many other forces' weapons would be better classified as carbines also. Armies (all over the world) are using shorterweapons with smaller rounds, and variable modes of fire, not to mention less stopping power. The hayday of 20+ inch barrels is over, along with stopping power. Now, it's pretty much about putting as many rounds down range as possible.
M16 is still the main small arm of the US military. It's a rifle. The M4 carbine, if that is what you are refering to, is not issued to all infantry. It's mostly issued to special forces units, airborne, and other such units. There have been a number of complaints about the M4 from use in the current conflicts. Mostly in that the shorter barrel results in lower velocities and less accuracy. While the higher operating preassures cause a higher failure rate.
A shorter weapon doesn't mean it isn't a rifle. A number of militaries (UK and France)use bullpup designs which are rifles. They are just designed so that their overall length is shorter. Their barrell length still classifies them as rifles however. And the difference between a carbine and rifle is defined by the barrel length. Not the overall weapon length.
The US military is looking at possibly replacing the M16 with the M4. At least the US Army is. I believe the Marines still use an M16. Also that is only one military. Everyone else is still using rifles for the most part. So most Infantry still do use Rifles.
M16 is still the main small arm of the US military. It's a rifle. The M4 carbine, if that is what you are refering to, is not issued to all infantry. It's mostly issued to special forces units, airborne, and other such units. There have been a number of complaints about the M4 from use in the current conflicts. Mostly in that the shorter barrel results in lower velocities
Isnt the M4 an old semi-auto carbine used in ealry Vietnam?
Message Edited by Ackehece on 03-05-2005 11:39 AM
BlackJango wrote:
Isnt the M4 an old semi-auto carbine used in ealry Vietnam?
What Ack said. Any that needs a pic of the M1 carbine go to the Community Rifles sticky. Click on the part III within itand about the third post down is a link for an M1 carbine.
The M4 is just an M16 where they shortened the barrell and put on a collapsable stock for the most part. I believe that the M4 has something like 80% compatable parts with the M16A2. And like the M16 it is not full auto but has a three round burst ability. There is another version called the M4A1 that is full auto but which is pretty much limited to special forces.
Waste93 wrote:SickSix wrote:/smackhead DOH! my own RL profession and i say 'dragoons'??? /smackhead
but, Infantry actually (nowadays) use carbines. But yes, if you look back 50+ years, Infantry truely were Rifleman. Actually trained in (lol, the irony lol) marksmanship!
Most Infantry still use Rifles. Special Forces units use Carbines frequently, but not Infantry.
And if you are pushing for Sniper, plus my definition of Gunner, then I'm behind you. with one caveat, You must push for our "stack" to be in Ranger!!!!!!!
no really, i'm serious
I'm actually pushing for pretty much the same type of role we have now. Rifles are mainly the basic grunt soldier (Infantry). They also should have some Sniper-like abilities and some light machine gunner abilities. Afterall, our main weapon, the T21, is a light machine gun.
Light Machine gun i heard that bad boy could rip through force fields and armor like it wasn't there.
BlackJango wrote:
Cpl_Fisher wrote:The day the Marines issue Carbines to regular infantry instead is when the chosin Resivoir Boils over...
Waste93 wrote:SickSix wrote:
Actually, no. US infantry use carbines. And many other forces' weapons would be better classified as carbines also. Armies (all over the world) are using shorter weapons with smaller rounds, and variable modes of fire, not to mention less stopping power. The hayday of 20+ inch barrels is over, along with stopping power. Now, it's pretty much about putting as many rounds down range as possible.
M16 is still the main small arm of the US military. It's a rifle. The M4 carbine, if that is what you are refering to, is not issued to all infantry. It's mostly issued to special forces units, airborne, and other such units. There have been a number of complaints about the M4 from use in the current conflicts. Mostly in that the shorter barrel results in lower velocities and less accuracy. While the higher operating preassures cause a higher failure rate.
A shorter weapon doesn't mean it isn't a rifle. A number of militaries (UK and France) use bullpup designs which are rifles. They are just designed so that their overall length is shorter. Their barrell length still classifies them as rifles however. And the difference between a carbine and rifle is defined by the barrel length. Not the overall weapon length.
The US military is looking at possibly replacing the M16 with the M4. At least the US Army is. I believe the Marines still use an M16. Also that is only one military. Everyone else is still using rifles for the most part. So most Infantry still do use Rifles.
M16 is still the main small arm of the US military. It's a rifle. The M4 carbine, if that is what you are refering to, is not issued to all infantry. It's mostly issued to special forces units, airborne, and other such units. There have been a number of complaints about the M4 from use in the current conflicts. Mostly in that the shorter barrel results in lower velocities
Isnt the M4 an old semi-auto carbine used in ealry Vietnam?
The m4 is a carbine of the m16 developed by the marines for there tank crews i believe sometime in the 80's because of its small sizes its also excelent for sf, airborne, and basacly any unit having the jump into enemy terrotory.
Message Edited by RebRifle on 03-05-2005 05:38 PM
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
yea there was an M14, is very similer to the M1, it used a box mag though. The Colt M4 is supposedly going to replace the M16 in the army, but only time will tell.
It wont replace the M16, the M-8 will. Saw a program on this on I think the History channel. Heres a like with alittle info
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m8-oicw.htm
The current prototype can be converted to a sniper rifle, assault rifle, and one other in about 10min.
" TheXM8 Future Combat Rifle is intended to replace existing M4 Carbines and select 5.56mm x45 weapons in the US Army arsenal beginning as early as the fourth quarter of FY05. Once adopted, the M8 Carbine will replace the aging M16/M4 family of weapons, which have been in service for nearly four decades, longer than any previous US service rifle. The M8 Carbine will be up to 20% lighter than a comparably equipped M4 Carbine MWS and yet offer additional features and performance unavailable currently in any assault rifle in the world."
BlackJango wrote:
of course, the M8 is competing with the Alliant Techsystems / Heckler-Koch XM-29 SABR / OICW assault rifle for the prize of replacing the good ole' m16
disregaurd that, that ones a NATO weapon, the M8 is the next US one.
Message Edited by SickSix on 03-05-2005 08:11 PM