Rifleman Archive
Thread: 1st In a series of potential CU rifleman problems
TimePalladin wrote:
well riflemen have been the kings of pve/pvp for as long as i can remember, hows it feel to be nerfed hehe
and if you arent good at pvp or pve thats your fault
No. You can't always blame the player for not being good at PvP or PvE. Sometimes they simply aren't given the tools to be able to do so. Would it be a Dancers fault for not being good at combat? Or is it simply that they don't have the tools to do so?
Granted Dancers aren't a combat profession. But a number of current combat professions suffer a similar situation. They don't have the tools to be effective like they should be. Is it a Carbineers fault that many MOBs are completely immune to their state effects? Or the Pistoleers that their defenses are meaningless in many combat situations?
2. If our range has not increased, we will need /supression fire to really work well. We need something to slow people from getting to us. I also thought I saw somewhere that kiting was going to be nerfed (us running while shooting)
3. I agree as before one of my advantages fOr myself and for my group was I could DB at a range. Now I will lose out on every DB. Lose FP etc.
4. Why should our ranged defense be limited? Will we get a /cover bonus in pvp? something?
SickSix wrote:heres the problem i have. in a PvP battle, Post CU, the Rifleman would be at the rear as the meleers run in, and throw some Carbineers/Pistolwhippers in between.Now, i'm in the prone, or kneeling, shooting away, and i incap someone......who do you think is going to get credit for the kill???NOT ME! it would be suicide to leave my position and go into the trenches and stand there like tree while waiting for the DB to followthrough. So i'll have to just let some TKM or whatever get the DB. so basically, we'll be incapping people for the meleers to 'kill', don't like that a whole lot....
Quit worrying about getting "credit" for the kill and focus on the actual objectives of your group from a miltiary perspective. Your job is not to collect kills, it is to overcome the enemy.
Ackehece wrote:
SickSix wrote:
heres the problem i have. in a PvP battle, Post CU, the Rifleman would be at the rear as the meleers run in, and throw some Carbineers/Pistolwhippers in between.
Now, i'm in the prone, or kneeling, shooting away, and i incap someone......who do you think is going to get credit for the kill???
NOT ME! it would be suicide to leave my position and go into the trenches and stand there liketree while waiting for the DB to followthrough. So i'll have to just let some TKM or whatever get the DB. so basically, we'll be incapping people for the meleers to 'kill', don't like that a whole lot....
just wait.... you ain't seen nothing yet but yeah your basic assesment is correct.
In pvp you will want the pistoleers and smugglers tobeon the front lines as they are puppeteers (mezzers and staters now). Carbineers to protect you. Melee specialists will be dukeing it out in the middle. And rifleman will be moveing along the edge of battle seeking position and targets of opportunity.
as for how PvP kill credits are counted. This is still up in the air and it is possible that anyone who damaged a target gets part of the reward (kinda like JTL)
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
SickSix wrote:
heres the problem i have. in a PvP battle, Post CU, the Rifleman would be at the rear as the meleers run in, and throw some Carbineers/Pistolwhippers in between.
Now, i'm in the prone, or kneeling, shooting away, and i incap someone......who do you think is going to get credit for the kill???
NOT ME! it would be suicide to leave my position and go into the trenches and stand there liketree while waiting for the DB to followthrough. So i'll have to just let some TKM or whatever get the DB. so basically, we'll be incapping people for the meleers to 'kill', don't like that a whole lot....
just wait.... you ain't seen nothing yet but yeah your basic assesment is correct.
In pvp you will want the pistoleers and smugglers tobeon the front lines as they are puppeteers (mezzers and staters now). Carbineers to protect you. Melee specialists will be dukeing it out in the middle. And rifleman will be moveing along the edge of battle seeking position and targets of opportunity.
as for how PvP kill credits are counted. This is still up in the air and it is possible that anyone who damaged a target gets part of the reward (kinda like JTL)
And this where the DEVS and I disagree, granted, they have a gamming background, I have a military one. In My world, you put the rifleman out front, and have the croud controlers, ect.... on the flanks, and rear so that when your enemy starts manuvering to get a better angle/field of fire, It gives the rifleman(aka power projectors) time to react to the changing threat.
Ackehece wrote:
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
SickSix wrote:
heres the problem i have. in a PvP battle, Post CU, the Rifleman would be at the rear as the meleers run in, and throw some Carbineers/Pistolwhippers in between.
Now, i'm in the prone, or kneeling, shooting away, and i incap someone......who do you think is going to get credit for the kill???
NOT ME! it would be suicide to leave my position and go into the trenches and stand there liketree while waiting for the DB to followthrough. So i'll have to just let some TKM or whatever get the DB. so basically, we'll be incapping people for the meleers to 'kill', don't like that a whole lot....
just wait.... you ain't seen nothing yet but yeah your basic assesment is correct.
In pvp you will want the pistoleers and smugglers tobeon the front lines as they are puppeteers (mezzers and staters now). Carbineers to protect you. Melee specialists will be dukeing it out in the middle. And rifleman will be moveing along the edge of battle seeking position and targets of opportunity.
as for how PvP kill credits are counted. This is still up in the air and it is possible that anyone who damaged a target gets part of the reward (kinda like JTL)
And this where the DEVS and I disagree, granted, they have a gamming background, I have a military one. In My world, you put the rifleman out front, and have the croud controlers, ect.... on the flanks, and rear so that when your enemy starts manuvering to get a better angle/field of fire, It gives the rifleman(aka power projectors) time to react to the changing threat.
as would I ... But remember how effective our arguements about this were.... T_T
I have issues Marksman as well, but, I stillplan on pestering them about it.
A good solution to me, is tonedown the damage modifires for rifleman, and make them work well at all ranges, not just long.
So we wouldn't do as much damage as say a swordman bashing your skull in, but our streangh would be that we could do say 75% of there damage, over all ranges, except melee range. which we would still be pretty helpless...
Ackehece wrote:
Ranged Deathblow:
- Ranged death blow no longer exists
- has a setup/windup timer on it so it is no longer instant
- Incap times are already to short according to most pvp'rs
So rifleman who have to fight at range will both have to cross the distance to the target to db them and then also wait out a timer while the shortened incap timer ticks down.
Specials with long windups:
- specials with windups cancel if you move
- therefore to use most rifleman specials (as they suggest slow weapons will always be slow) you will have to not move
- - info on one side of this is still CU but partially addresses the problem but creates another
- even still - rifleman will be forced to stand and take it to use specials now.
Slower Relative Speed:
- Even if DPS is the same with rifleman doing more damage per shot but less shots
- what happens when some one can lay 2-3 states on you in the time you can do one action?
- Defences vs states must be much greater for rifleman (so that 1 in 3 states land) or the balance will be lost
- 1 shot 600 damage vs 3 shots at 200 damage each + stun +blind +intimidate (special states are changing... this is just eg)
Here's another for you...
Single Damagable Pool:
- Now that there is only the health bar which sustains damage, what meaning does heat-shot and mind-shot have? These are specials that are specifically to damage the mind pool, however in the combat revamp there will be no mind to damage. (Similarly apply this to leg shot with carbineer, etc)
- If we are to have specials that do not target specific parts of the targets body (i.e. pool), then what will seperate the 'new' specials we have? Will it simply be a case of different state effects and damage multipliers?
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
And this where the DEVS and I disagree, granted, they have a gamming background, I have a military one. In My world, you put the rifleman out front, and have the croud controlers, ect.... on the flanks, and rear so that when your enemy starts manuvering to get a better angle/field of fire, It gives the rifleman(aka power projectors) time to react to the changing threat.
How dare you use common sense. 
I hear 'ya. You've seen our arguements before.
DaveG wrote:
Here's another for you...
Single Damagable Pool:
- Now that there is only the health bar which sustains damage, what meaning does heat-shot and mind-shot have? These are specials that are specifically to damage the mind pool, however in the combat revamp there will be no mind to damage. (Similarly apply this to leg shot with carbineer, etc)
Waste93 wrote:
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
And this where the DEVS and I disagree, granted, they have a gamming background, I have a military one. In My world, you put the rifleman out front, and have the croud controlers, ect.... on the flanks, and rear so that when your enemy starts manuvering to get a better angle/field of fire, It gives the rifleman(aka power projectors) time to react to the changing threat.
How dare you use common sense.
I hear 'ya. You've seen our arguements before.
For some reason I'm thing that muon causes less common sense, not more.
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
/slapshead
what was I THINKING using commmon sense, must have been all that muon.
