Rifleman Archive

Someone is confused.

I can only assume Aldeon means that Damage-Per-HAM is more important than Damage-Per-Second. DPS is always important but you have to consider DPH first.

Saying rifleman DPS is high at the master level is ignoring the fact that no rifleman can spam special moves, especially with a T21, because our Damage-Per-HAM is too low.

After about 10 seconds of combat you'll have to stop comparing StrafeShot2 to StoppingShot and start comparing autoattack to StoppingShot.

The rifleman will be out of mind and forced to use autoattack while the pistoleer will still be going strong.

here here...100% agree...unless i'm gonna snipe at something once or twice i would never considered chaining specials with my T21...i actually switch to itand auto fire when when my mind pool is drain...since the average damages arebetter than any other rifles out there...

The players have the tools to manage the problems in game, right now.

- Weaponsmith experimentation

- Power Ups

- Stat Migration

- Food

- Chemicals

- Buffs

- Armor experimentation

- Weapon choice

- Supporting Skill Choice

If something doesn't work for you, play with it until it does. Class envy rants can only go so far before destroying a game.

Actually my DPS calculations don't take any specials into account, since I'm just not that knowledgeable about the damage and delay multipliers that the various specials have.

What I can say to those who comment that using 10 specials in a row will incap you using a rifle, the same is basically true for the top Pistols and Carbines too. The difference of course is that the Pistols and Carbines hit the Action bar, which can be healed. Is the ability to do unhealable mind damage a fair tradeoff for Rifleman specials that deplete the mind bar? Well, that's a tough question. One I'm not sure I have the answer to, although personally I do agree with those who say that the HAM costs to Rifle specials hit the mind bar a bit too hard.

As for the Armor Piercing not working right, this is an issue that all weapons face, and while it affects the Rifleman's elite weapon (T21) quite hard, it's equally true for all other weapons.

Xevioux .. I doesn't look like you've every really played a riflemen class at all. before you try to sound knowledgable about something you're not familiar with start a character on another server and go just 1/2 way up the riflemen tree. Then you'll have an idea of how much a pain in the arse RM is.

I have a carbineer alt and it's amazingly easy to play that class. I can string together styled shots (bleed, fullauto,warning shot, action shot(s)) with so much ease it's scary. With a rifle you're lucky to get the second or third shot off before the MoB is ontop of you and you're dead.

Please people don't try and justify what you THINK about our class till you've walked in our shoes. The numbers for DPS do not tell the whole story and it's insulting to us all when you attempt to dissmiss our issues as trivial.

To Xevioux: You are coming from a weapon stats prespective and i wont repeat the flaws in your logic since it has already been pointed out by others in previous posts. Unless I see a Novice Riffleman title in your signature you have no clues as to all other factors that makes riflemen have disadvantages. i.e Please do not point out that its stupid that us rifflemen think the only viable weapon a sharpshooter can use is a DLT20a. I would like to see you shoot a Laser or T21 more than 3 times with specials before u mind drain. But alas this has already been pointed out in a previous post. Oh yeah...why don't we just use mind buffs??? Do u see pistoleers having to resort to spices to be competitive??? They resort to spices to be more uber and thats the only reason.

Now if you are telling me that once the devsput this proposed speed cap in place and a rifle speed can be lower than 3...this is news to me...and wooohoooo what the heck are we complaining about...

As i understand it, a rifle's speed, at lowest will be at 3, no matter the stats quality, slice, upgrade, and speed bonuses from the Rifle Spec branch. Please please correct me if I'm wrong...

Again it's so anoying when someone that does not specialize in our profession comes up with these bogus statistics that say we are not a gimp class...why don't you all focus on using a rifle fer a week or two then you will know how we feel...

Although one thing i do agree with and never have mentioned it previously....Carbineers are in worser shape than us rifflemen.

Urikl D'evrack

Master Riffleman

Gorath Server

Ok Descartes, I might be daft, but if you dont take any special hits into account the how can you say that DPS for a 125-328 T21 rifle is 450+ ?

That couldnt be true unless it was fired 2 times pr second.....or am I wrong?

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Gazkan wrote:
Also, the DLT20a is the most efficient weapon when it comes to mind usage.. yes, the action usage is higher on the weapon, but action usage matters just as little for us as it does to pistoleers because it canbe stimmed or reduced to nothing using tatooine sunburn.

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If I could just point out that the HAM cost multipliers for our specials is high for the mind, and low for the others, so even if a rifle has a higher action cost, the actualy cost for action will be negligible. I can't remember what post it was, but I remember that it was an official post and stated that health and action HAM costsare 0.5x, and the mind HAM costs are 3x, or something similar.

It's the idea, not the numbers that are important. Like for BHs and eyeshot, I think if the action HAM multiplierwas 0.25 and the mind ham multiplier was x6 or x7 (because of the normally very low mind ham costs associated with pistols), then you would have something riflemen couldn't complain about. Oh, and reduce the max range accuracy modifiers by a lot. After all, you're shooting the freakin' EYE with a pistol.

Denzien, Bria server


Artisan 3/0/0/4          Scout 4/0/4/2


Brawler 4/0/0/0         Smuggler 1/0/1/0


Marksman 4/4/0/4      Rifleman 4/1/3/3

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MSP0 wrote:

The players have the tools to manage the problems in game, right now.

- Weaponsmith experimentation

- Power Ups

- Stat Migration

- Food

- Chemicals

- Buffs

- Armor experimentation

- Weapon choice

- Supporting Skill Choice

If something doesn't work for you, play with it until it does. Class envy rants can only go so far before destroying a game.

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Xevioux, there are some flaws in your argument, please let me try to point them out:

1. The speed cap
Riflemen DO NOT reach the speed cap. A master rifleman + master marksman is +95. To reach the cap you need to be +100. That +5 is very important because it has significant impacts on our speed. Normal shots seem to fire at about 1.2 seconds, headshot3 also takes a tiny bit more than a second to fire, and strafe2 seems to take almost 2 seconds to fire. Only at +100 does everything become exactly 1 second.

2. DLT20a v Laser v T21
I agree, the Laser is the best deal, but it really should have been the T21.

3. DPS
Your DPS calcultions are correct... in theory, but they are useless when applied to really playing the game. The devs only saw the math so they nerfed us and really screwed us up.

3a) You fail to take into consideration accuracy. A T21 has a positive zone from 50m to 64m. Anything closer than that quickly works its way towards -70 or -90. Even at 64m we seem to miss a good number of times. Once the negative zone is reached (because no mob or target is going to stand there) our chances to hit become abysmal. That is one reason we want a higher DPS... if we don't kill it in that 14m zone the odds of it killing us increase drastically every step closer that it comes.

3b) Your DPS calculations dont take specials into consideration. PvP is not about standing there shooting each other with normal shot. Its about using specials to take the target out as fast as possible. Pistols, for example, can spam stopping shot all day long with minimal (and healable) HAM drain. Stopping shot does as much damage as headshot3, but with a random target pool. As a human riflemen (thank you Mr. Emperor) with maxed mind stats, I'm good for 6-8 headshot3s before I need a 5-7 minute rest to regen.

In this example, the pistol and rifle are throwing out the same DPS, but the Pistoleer can do it all day long. If riflemen are being forced to rest after 6-8 shots, those 6-8 shots really have to count. As it is, our damage is pitiful and weapons like the T21 tend to kill us almost as fast as the person we're shooting.

Make the targeta BH and we're actually helping him kill us.

4. Speed is a blessing
Yes, it's the only thing that keeps us from becoming 100% useless, but a lot of things have changed. Our damage is no longer high (T21 nerf), the 75% PvP reduction made our HAM/Damage ratio insane, the supression fire nerf makes it so we actually have to kill the target fast. With these changes, speed is no longer our "saving grace", but just something that helps us a little bit more.

5. Laser is not better?
The T21s on Bloodfin aren't too bad, but a laser has a lot more potential behind it. The only real problem with the laser is that its damage is too variable.

The best T21s I've seen on Bloodfin were sliced to about 430ish damage @ 7.1 speed AR3. I don't know about the best laser, but I've seen some sliced to 550ish damage AR2. Then look at the mind drain and you'll see why a lot of people are willing to take their chances with the laser.

Personally, I prefer the T21 because it has less variance, but man, does that thing kill me fast!

-- A6