Rifleman Archive
Thread: Commandos now suffer fromt he 2.5 mod like we do! Does this make anyone else laugh?
If heavy weapon damage has been changed from melee damage type to ranged damage type then I would suspect this change was to give melee PvPers an advantage against commandos.
When heavy weapons did melee damage the toughness that melee characters got worked in reducing the damage from heavy weapons by about 50% at TKM level. Giving the commandos a 2.5x melee penalty reintroduces this advantage melee characters have against commandos.
The Ranged Defence you get as a TKM is about 30. When stacked with RD from other professions it's ok, but on it's own it isn't going to stop you being killed by a commando. (Note, I'm not talking about a newbie commandothat just got flame1)
I would have thought a better idea would have been to changeheavy weaponsdamage type to a new damage type. Then they could make melee toughness work against this new heavy weapons damage.
Seflyn wrote:
The Ranged Defence you get as a TKM is about 30. When stacked with RD from other professions it's ok, but on it's own it isn't going to stop you being killed by a commando. (Note, I'm not talking about a newbie commandothat just got flame1)
I would have thought a better idea would have been to changeheavy weaponsdamage type to a new damage type. Then they could make melee toughness work against this new heavy weapons damage.
Nah, that would be too much work, they'd have to make an entire new entry in their database.
sorry 2.5x melee damage SUKS! I dont care who has it, its a bit excessive. I can deal with 1.5x or maybe even 2.0x max. insteadI have to sacrifice accuracy for survival with the bad collision detection/bot pathingin game(warping mobs). Its going to hit commando even harder. they dont get 64m to do their specials.
Ee-dwana wrote:
sorry 2.5x melee damage SUKS! I dont care who has it, its a bit excessive. I can deal with 1.5x or maybe even 2.0x max. insteadI have to sacrifice accuracy for survival with the bad collision detection/bot pathingin game(warping mobs). Its going to hit commando even harder. they dont get 64m to do their specials.
Not to mention they have to be immobilized for at least some specials. Or that's what they say anyway.
But I say let them suffer for a little while, let them understand what the 2.5x penalty is before balancing itand maybe we'll get a little bit of sympathy, or at least understanding.
And while the warping mob bug is still in, what's the difference between the commando's special range and our special range? We can't always predict what path the target will take, so saying to get an unobstructed path to the target is very difficult, especially when he has friends that are wandering around before you take a shot.
Not sure why so many are happy about this. Just because we're miserable about it doesn't mean we should be happy when the misery gets spread around. It creates animosity between the classes. Or did we learn nothing from our recent spat with the pistoleers? Why is it becoming a "us vs them" all the time? Shouldn't we be working together to improve all the classes? Or if it's going to be a "us vs them" shouldn't it at least be the players vs the Devs that keep nerfing and breaking things?
Does it make sense for them to have it? Based on the theory supplied by the devs on why we have it, yes. If they want to say larger weapon make it harder to defend against melee then yes it makes sense. Doesn't mean we have to revel in it though.I could also argue it's a lot easier to block a sword blow with a rifle than a pistol.
A better method would be to drop the damage multiplier all together for all classes. Replace it with a system that effects movement. You would run slower while equipped with a rifle than a pistol. Pistol slower than melee weapons. This would reduce kiting of the melee classes somewhat so wouldn't be a problem for PvP. It would also allow range increases. A rifle could shoot for a longer range than say a pistol You wouldn't be able to kite them completely though since they would catch you since they would move faster. Though it would need some work. It could still be abused by using a rifle for a couple shots then changing weapons to match speeds. So there would have to be other safeguards put in to prevent it.
Waste I hate to disagree, but we have to be prone to be accurate and by the time we stand up the mobs are on top of us anyway. Also we already have movement penalties. I have watched a single commando with a flame thrower destroy the entire Nightsister vs SMC battlefield. Just to let you know they are CL75 and up mobs.
Maybe I am bitter from getting revenge tef flamed and bunrt to a crisp by the leets. But they were way to powerful. That and there glee over how we one hit wonders to them, we still will be. Now we can use the same weak lineS on them. USE TACTICS! or my favorite YOUARE A SUPPORT CLASS!.
Also now to them the 2.5 melee damage multiplier is evil incarnite, before it was needed for class balance. Let them suffer.
*greatly suppressing histerical laughter*
You are right about *snicker* this not being good *giggle* to force what all *pfffta* consider an unjustified amount of *loosing all control*...
AAAAAAHAHHAHHAHHHAA HAHAH HHAHAH HHAHAHAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAA!
*giggle*
ok, I *snicker*
AHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHA HAHAHA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHA!
sorry, ok *again, greatly suppressing histerical laughter*
ok, maybe I just better say maybe NOW they might consider doing something about this horrable damage crap.I tired of NEEDING to invest SP into brawler tostay alive against a BLUE CON.I better go now...
I think it's overdue. If the other superior ranged weapons have it (LLC does to, doesn't it?), the Commandos certainly should have it.
Besides, they're the ones out of the Rifle/BH/Com 2.5x trio that are actually schooled in Unarmed Combat. They still have the advantage up close, over many counterparts.
I do think the tremendous whining siren that's pouring out of the Commando board iskinda funny, considering how 'flavor of the month' commandos have been lately and how much ass they've been kicking. Guess that will rotate a few out again. ~J
They maybe should make these penalties for PvP only or something. I mean having to be within melee range of a mob in order to use your specials pretty much means instant death amongst the mid to high end mobs.
Also 2.5x dmg seems like such an arbitrary number that they pulled out of their behinds without much thought to if it is justified. 250% is a HUGE advantage to give to your enemies. Being a rifleman, I know that any advantage we might have does not justify getting hit for 250% the damage especially since those advantages (long range?Pffft, yeah right.Mind damage? yeah at a huge costto our own mind. Heavy AP? Didn't work right in PvP even before this borked up patch. It only worked in PvE but I never heard the mobs complain.) are at best small compared to the other range classes.
They need to redo the scaling on the melee penalties completely. 1.5x damage for commandos seem a bit more fair. This way, melees still get a bonus to hit, but at least it's not overwhelmingly devastating when the commandos try to use their specials. Same goes for us riflemen... fine give us a melee penalty but make it proportionate to our advantages in combat.
Swiller wrote:
Waste I hate to disagree, but we have to be prone to be accurate and by the time we stand up the mobs are on top of us anyway. Also we already have movement penalties. I have watched a single commando with a flame thrower destroy the entire Nightsister vs SMC battlefield. Just to let you know they are CL75 and up mobs.
Maybe I am bitter from getting revenge tef flamed and bunrt to a crisp by the leets. But they were way to powerful. That and there glee over how we one hit wonders to them, we still will be. Now we can use the same weak lineS on them. USE TACTICS! or my favorite YOUARE A SUPPORT CLASS!.
Also now to them the 2.5 melee damage multiplier is evil incarnite, before it was needed for class balance. Let them suffer.
I wasn't saying they weren't powerful. Part of that was that heavy weapons were bugged and considered melee weapons hence doing 2.5X damage to rifle users. This would include NPC's with rifles too. This has been fixed. I think the bug reversed what it should have been. I think they reversed the part of the code that told the system that heavy weapons should take 2.5X damage from melee and had it doing 2.5X melee. This has been fixed.
I always thought that, based on the Dev's explanation of why we have the penalty, they should too. I just don't think we should be cheerful and happy about it. What reason is there to gloat? Are we to the point we want to see all the other classes suffer as we have out of spite? I hope not.
We have major issues of our own that need attention. As do a number of other classes. Wouldn't it be much more effective to work with them, to get their support on our issues, instead of the constant bickering that is starting to become the norm?
It seems there are more posts calling for nerfs of other classes or gloating over nerfs to other classes and less posts on constructive ways to improve things.