Rifleman Archive
Thread: rifleman vs. carbineer
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
This is my current assement of the situation, short term be a rilfeman here's why:
1- Armor's only weakness is stun and it's only half as effective as it is verse other damage types, meaning you need AP1 so you don't get the extra 50% off of damage AP0 weapons get(only AP 1 stun weapon is the Jawa ghetto blaster).
2- Buffs + 75% PVP damage reduction make Pistol and Carbine damage a joke we deal 200 damage after all reductions they deal 100.
3- Mind damage is the only damage that matters, health and action both can be healed at no cost mind can't.
If they fix these 3 issues the elite professions will be pretty close to eachother in effectiveness.
1.I some what agree with... a good t21, lazer carbine, lazer rifle, DX2 stutter, geo pistol, Hammers, Vlances, ect will kill a man quite fast. In PVP having a large arsonal is the key.. not one type of dmg. because resits on the armors are for th emain dmg type.. most armors have 50's to low 70's on acid, heat, ect.. where as kentic and energy are normally 80+... and stun is 30's. Most of the weapons that armor have large resists to also have mind fire or posion ect on them... which is a PVP killer... the more you are involved in combat pvp.. the more tricks that the non riflemen come up with... and ALLOT work...
Rifles in RL and in most games hit hard for a reason... theyhave more bang for thier buck and larger rounds and/or power behind them.
2. Some of the above should be read... and they may not have the dmg in one hit... but most of them have dps and state effcets.. which most of you forget about... that is what kills people the fastest... don't knock state effects... they work! But I mainly agree with 2
3. Mind can be healed... but it is costly to the CM doing it... and most proffshions have head hits... that in combination with an enimie on the ground... is very leathal... like i have said many times today... it isn't all about one thing... and Rifleman are powerful in thier own respect.. but so are almost every proffeshion... and every proffshion should not be as good as every other... if you wnat that go play a differnt game... i would perfer this be more like reality.... where the bigger the gun.. .the more the dmg... (sorry commando's yall got screwed... had to convert). There are tiems when Rifleman are at a great disavantage... and the same wiht everyone else... that is why we have the points to get other skills... So stop your damn complaining... and master or dable to be able to do that you wnat to do...
pentjaksilat wrote:
not sure if i mentioned this, but yes...armor/buffs is the problem as i see it for carbineers...and most other professions. i don't want to see everyone reliant on stun weapons personally, nor do i like how everyone's reliant on stun layers...
riflemen aside...no offense, but you guys already kill ok in PVP.
but for most everyone else (CMs aside since they can level armies...)...buffs + armor are too overbalanced in PVP...the ironic thing is armor used to be at a good level, 'til they increased segments, then increased them again, then increased layers...just made it way too easy to get 80-90%, i would personally like to see str/con/quick/stam buffs cap at around 500str...so a +900current pack would be around 450str, yielding ~1100-1250enhances. this would make PVP armor wearable, but make encumberance actually have an effect...my suit weighs something like 900/800/850...kinda foolish that i just get buffs, pop food, and i don't worry 'bout the encumb.
once the secondary buffs are at around 50% of current...nerf armor.i know...i'll be cooked on a spit and eaten alive by ravaging powergamers if armor's nerfed and they can't solo krayts...but...armor's too strong. it makes PVE content simple for any intelligent player, and makes PVP moot for many professions if the best stuff's being worn. i'm in favor of making it to where the best stuff around, layered w/ great slices would be 70% resist...whereas 70% ubese would turn into around 55% ubese making the new craftable cap maybe 60%kinetic for it...that would make encumb slices around 52% layered...and i'd say around 43% layered (layers are too strong currently...make it so you have to WORK to get a 3% layer made...much less the current 4% and the 1day run of 5% many smiths did...b/c pvp's all 'bout layered armor currently, there's no thought of "should i get an unlayered suit?" since the extra 12% unsliced is always worth the encumb for PVP).
once you nerf the base resists...then you add vulnerabilities...make padded/chitin/tantel worth using. sure make composite the juggernaut...but maybe add electricity/heat vulnerabilities to it, whereas the others will get their own vulnerabilities. carb's only heat weapon is ap0...rifle's getting the ap0 berserker...so the big concerns would then be LLC's and flamethrowers, but let's be real...BHs need a boost in PVP, much of them are l33t d3wdz that want to become a FOTM again i'm sure...but there are alot out there that like the profession and need some help to make up for lack of defenses. commandos are almost all gone b/c of the DOT nerf and changes to make at-st's easy enough to kill w/ other means...their specials are so slow and low accuracy in PVP that i don't see them becoming overpowered by getting heat vulnerabilities...
or of course just not do vulnerabilities and add lower special protections...go a long way to making those types not overepowered, but viable...maybe 20%electric/heat?
i really don't know...there are so many factors to play in, again...i wouldn't want to try to balance it, but what we currently have is a joke, i'm sure you don 't need 1 more ranter in your forums telling you how much pvp is outta whack, but this thread caught my eye.
~pentjak
In the GCW I have a postfor remaking armor that would make it pretty cool and make this game less like Robo cop(eventhough I have 8 suits of Stun layered composite I hate composite am I a hippocrite?Yes).
On PVE content I think just nerfing armor makes it easy on the dev's, I think PVE content should use multiple Damage types and if it's says the NPC is a smuggler it should use smuggler weapons/specials. Currently PVE combat is crap and needs a total AI work over and needs to be consistant throught the game(ie smuggler NPC's doing smuggler specials, maybe even having sliced weapons as loot, oh and maybe even spice wow what a concept!)
I agree Secondary buffs need some ring time with the nerf bat or instead maybe scondary Statsshould becapped at 1200, this way buffs could get rid of the negative effects of wearing armor but you would still use HAM in Specials.
Either way the system needs to be totally reworked and once that is done the game will be a hell of alot better.
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
[snip]
I agree Secondary buffs need some ring time with the nerf bat or instead maybe scondary Statsshould becapped at 1200, this way buffs could get rid of the negative effects of wearing armor but you would still use HAM in Specials.
Either way the system needs to be totally reworked and once that is done the game will be a hell of alot better.
Buffs and armor are the main problems. When peope can buff their stats to 4200/4300/3000 (as I saw someone recently) and wear armor that blocks 40% stun damage and, possibly, 60 - 90% of everything else, you are talking virtual god-mode compared to the vast, vast majority of players out there.
Also, I am against them mucking around with the secondary stats since the reason to do this would be to prevent people from being able to fire specials unhindered. The upcoming combat changes are supposed to make all HAM costs unhealable, and, thus, make it so that you cannot spam specials all day. Therefore, there is no need to have them do changes to the secondary stats right now.
Sotaudi wrote:
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
[snip]
I agree Secondary buffs need some ring time with the nerf bat or instead maybe scondary Statsshould becapped at 1200, this way buffs could get rid of the negative effects of wearing armor but you would still use HAM in Specials.
Either way the system needs to be totally reworked and once that is done the game will be a hell of alot better.
Buffs and armor are the main problems. When peope can buff their stats to 4200/4300/3000 (as I saw someone recently) and wear armor that blocks 40% stun damage and, possibly, 60 - 90% of everything else, you are talking virtual god-mode compared to the vast, vast majority of players out there.
Also, I am against them mucking around with the secondary stats since the reason to do this would be to prevent people from being able to fire specials unhindered. The upcoming combat changes are supposed to make all HAM costs unhealable, and, thus, make it so that you cannot spam specials all day. Therefore, there is no need to have them do changes to the secondary stats right now.
Sotaudi, I am assuming the developers are incompetent and are not going to change the system that allows you to infinately Spam specials. If I have it correct, with the system they are going to put in, instead of dealing damage Specials will shrink your HAM pool, now this to me does not mean that they are reworking theamount Focus/Strength/Quickness reduce Special useage.
I could be wrong and if I am the Developers earn some confidence points form me
Nym Slug Thrower... armor piercing light, nice gun, I got one on my wall, looks kind alike a WWII BAR kinda... shortened a little but its cool....Rifleman are better (for now)but carbines are more fun to shoot 
ReenaAiuchi wrote:
Carbineer has no stun damage so punching through composite is your #1 problem...
If you go riflemen you automatically get Stun and can really shread any composite armor...
However, Carbineer has a lot of nasty status attacks like stun/dizzy/kd and hte like... you nail that with an enhanced dot e11 or a nym slug thrower and you might be able to rip through or with a nice 600 dmg krayt laser carbine...
Riflemen's status attacks aren't gret and have to be used in combination... so in a 1 on 1 situation I think a carbine might have the advantage with the kd, the 5 seconds it takes you to get up while being dizzy, and those 5-10 seconds of unreplied shooting....
In a mass battle... rifles probably win because your armor will eaten through relatively fast... and you can't do that dmg in equal amount back at the other line...
Reena
I will agree with most of this... if you combine BH Carbine 4 with master carbineer... i would have to say... it would be a 50 50 match... and in a large battle... it really depends on who is targetign who.. since the AOE of carbines is pretty awsome....
Warlock_The_Darkone wrote:
ReenaAiuchi wrote:
Carbineer has no stun damage so punching through composite is your #1 problem...
If you go riflemen you automatically get Stun and can really shread any composite armor...
However, Carbineer has a lot of nasty status attacks like stun/dizzy/kd and hte like... you nail that with an enhanced dot e11 or a nym slug thrower and you might be able to rip through or with a nice 600 dmg krayt laser carbine...
Riflemen's status attacks aren't gret and have to be used in combination... so in a 1 on 1 situation I think a carbine might have the advantage with the kd, the 5 seconds it takes you to get up while being dizzy, and those 5-10 seconds of unreplied shooting....
In a mass battle... rifles probably win because your armor will eaten through relatively fast... and you can't do that dmg in equal amount back at the other line...
Reena
I will agree with most of this... if you combine BH Carbine 4 with master carbineer... i would have to say... it would be a 50 50 match... and in a large battle... it really depends on who is targetign who.. since the AOE of carbines is pretty awsome....
pentjaksilat wrote:
AE is nice...but i can gaurantee it's nothing near 50/50...even doing cripplingshot at the cap, you can't possibly kill a player w/ doc buffs, brandy, and 85% armor w/ carbines. period.
whereas a rifleman can even kill someone in 40% stun in not too many headshots (tho PSGs of course slow that down...as they do against carbines).
if you put 2 buffed/armored players against each other, the riflema will win 100% of engagements. i guarantee it. he might as well holster his +110'ish speed carb/BHcarbIV gets and just type /burstrun.
~pentjak