Rifleman Archive
Thread: Abriged History of Sniping
MSP0 wrote:
It is my understanding that large caliber rifles were used in WWII. The Anti-Tank Rifles were not good at their intended role, but proved superb at picking off Infantry. Today's Barrett (50 cal) is for all intents and purposes an ATR, though it is now know as "simply" an sniper rifle.
Pardon the nitpick, please. Thanks for the history lesson!
Message Edited by MSP0 on 05-05-2004 09:26 AM
There were large caliberanti-tank rifles during WWII. Though there were not very effective against infantry. The main reason was quality of the weapon. Since these weapons were designed to attacks tanks, which are rather larger targets, they were not made to the exacting standards that enabled them to be effective sniping weapons. Having a 6MoA with an anti tank weapon isn't that big of a deal. But against a person you will be lucky to hit a target.
Another factor was the weight of these weapons. It made these more of a defensive weapon from a static position. Even today these weapons are rather hefty.
The limitig factor for these early large caliber weapons was quality optical sights for the extreme range. Making a large caliber sniper rifle isn't that hard. However making optics with clarity and the required magnification was. Also the lack of effective muzzle brakes in the early rifles was a factor.
These factors made large caliber sniper rifles ineffective and more of an oddity than anything else until Vietnam. It was then that technology enabled the large caliber long range sniper rifle to come into being as we generally know.
Of course this is in regards to large caliber long range weapons as we think of them. Don't forget that the sniping weapons of the American Civil War were large caliber as were the regular rifles. They were anywhere from .50 - .58 caliber.
Message Edited by Waste93 on 05-15-2004 11:47 AM
SmoothOperator wrote:
If only we could have a Barret "light 50".
I am not up on my history of the sniper and rifles in general, except the rifling of barrels part, so the little history lesson was sweet!! I also agree with the original poster. the only thing the rifleman in SWG has that reflects an actual sniper is the accuracy. Concealment, observation, and range are nil for the rifleman is this game.
The original rifleman, before the class was changed, reflected what waste93 discribed. Then rifleman got beefed up with more accuracy and speed. That turned them into a mean machine gunner accurate up to the entire distance guns can shoot. if the Devs want the rifleman to reflect a sniper I think they need to rethink their 64m max distance. some one posted that it should be doubled, making it 128m. That would work nicely since you cant target much beyond that distance due to it not being loaded into the world yet. Besides pistoleers stun weaponery is capped at 48m max range, so why not rifles range be extended. Also with the extra distance the rifleman speed mod could be dropped a bit. Also getting rid of the negative modifier or reducing it greatly would help. hitting something at any distance with a rifle should not be a problum due to the weapon.
Finally get rid of the radar all togather. The thing is practically useless with the exception of locating the general area of the colored dot clumps. that in itself would give rifleman the ability to conceal themselves for a bit. And it wouldn't be to hard to track a sniper down either. once the first shot hits you just make a general guess where the shot came from point the screen in that direction and hit the tab button. that could be the simulation of you searching for the sniper, allow the sniper to get off a few more shots before the distance between you and him/her and beat um into the dirt.
Simplified down; amid speed,high damaging, 128m distance shooting, concealing sniper, due to the lack of radar. pistoleers and carbineers can take advantage of no radar as well to sneak up to or away from a fight.
In the UK there is a Drama War series called Sharpe. This program is based on the life of Major Richard Sharpe of the British 95th Rifle Brigade during the 1800's Napoleonic War.
I recommend it from both an entertainment view and from a military view as the Rifle Brigade was the first Deployable Regiment of snipers to serve in the British Army, they were also one of the Regiments that pioneered the use of camoflage as they didnt wear the Bright Red of the normal soldiers but instead opted for a Darkj Green uniform.
Rebbo_1 wrote:
In the UK there is a Drama War series called Sharpe. This program is based on the life of Major Richard Sharpe of the British 95th Rifle Brigade during the 1800's Napoleonic War.
I recommend it from both an entertainment view and from a military view as the Rifle Brigade was the first Deployable Regiment of snipers to serve in the British Army, they were also one of the Regiments that pioneered the use of camoflage as they didnt wear the Bright Red of the normal soldiers but instead opted for a Darkj Green uniform.
Its a very good watch. Highly recomended.
Superb post, but I would say we don't even have the accuracy since most master pistoleers and carbineers can hit us as often as we can hit them even at extreme range.
Annago
EvilJonUk wrote:
Superb post, but I would say we don't even have the accuracy since most master pistoleers and carbineers can hit us as often as we can hit them even at extreme range.
Annago
I disagree from the standpoint that there is no extreme range. Just a max range. 64m is short range for a rifle in RL.
As for the accuracy. I don't see it as much as a long of accuracy on the Riflemans part as much as possible to much on the others part.
But at Master that is expected. When I think Master I think Annie Oakley and the like. Someone that is almost always going to hit. Someone of that caliber is likely to be able to plug a bullseye with a pistol at 64m just as well as some with a rifle can.
Well, if you scaled all of the ranges to rifle, then....
The maximum effective range of a .308 caliber rifle (a popular cartridge) is roughly 1000 meters. In game, max range of anyone's rifle is 64 meters. Then we have 64 meters (game) = 1000 meters (real life). So in effect, if you applied game mechanics to real life, a guy with a pistol (with no optics) is hitting a man-sized target consistently at 1000 meters from a standing, unsupported position and sometimes while running. Also, any person on the street would be able to cover one kilometer in less than 5 seconds. See how silly that sounds?
Let's face it, the ranges for rifle make no sense. So why bother with real life comparisons?
heapum wrote:
The original rifleman, before the class was changed, reflected what waste93 discribed. Then rifleman got beefed up with more accuracy and speed.
Message Edited by beamstalk on 05-17-2004 01:01 PM
One thing, the only "snipers" in StarWars are the two Tuskens sniping the podracers in ep.1. Zam Wessel might be considered one when she shoots down the assasin droid in ep.2.In BOTH OF THESE SCENES, the rifles used were NOT blasters, they were slug throwers.
The laser RIFLE is the most common weapon in the starwars universe according to OFFICIAL cannon from the RPG sourcebooks.
The laser RIFLE is NOT a term for just long range rifles, it covers any high caliber weapon with good accuracy. The E-11 and T21 are the standard and most commonweapons in the StarWars universe, these weapons are the equivilent ofthe real world M16 and SAW or M60s.
Rifleman should be just as they are in the movies, good all around fighters with long range semi auto fire, or full auto/bursts for high damage.