Rifleman Archive

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Yazule wrote:
lol those logs are a joke, i dont see any damage by you anywhere on it, so all you show is one side of the coin...

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Aldeon's damage isn't included because Aldeon isn't trying to demonstrate anything other than "Pistols are just as accurate as rifles at 60m."

"Accurate" means "hit/miss" ratio. Has nothing whatsoever to do with damage. DPS is another subject entirely.

for Noules just before I leave -

accuracy 95

move acc 30

aiming 16

standing 15

speed 74

Yazule,

I didn't see where Aldeon said he was done. So how about you hold your horses and wait until everything is up here before you decide what a joke it is.

Also, in regards to your comment:

"1) rifle attacks mind, the only non-healable bar in combat"

Only two, TWO attacks hit mind. One is a bleedand one of them hurts our mind poolat nearly the same rate at we damage our opponent. Mind attacks are the LEAST efficient attacks we have, and ALL of our specials drain our own mind pool giving us a finite number of attacks in all situations. We can not use a stim and keep using specials.

Like I said, the rifleman mind attack is WAY over rated.

[quote]

yazule you are the one trolling. no rifleman would have given any negative comments about fixing broken pistoleer skills. the proposal simply got many people mad and i bet it wouldnt have been posted like it was if it wasnt for jaegens speed calculation thread. no matter how hard you try to defend your class you didnt want a fix you wanted to nerf the 2 other ranged elite professions. now aldeon is trying to fight for a compromise so EACH elite prof will have it pros and cons. this should have been done via testing between the correspondents but aldeon never got a response to it. [/quote]

naa, i am not trolling I am looking at a post by a correspondant saying pistoleers are in God mode when his examples are of BH specials roflol.

I dont think my correspondant is doing much better fyi. They are bickering, they are fighting, all I had to say is "if you want us to have a max range of 30 then you should get a min range of 30"... that is not trolling, that is compromise. I was a rifleman at one time, didnt like it, I do CH and healing so I have to be in tight. But because of my experience I know how devistating mind bleed can be. I do think that rifle, pistol AND carbine need to be upgraded slightly to be competitive with scatter, lightning and flamethrowers. Not AS good, but not nearly as outgunned as they are currently.

The dev's have shown "the squeeky wheel gets the grease" and that is bs, so when I see someone screaming to nerf a weapon that is not overpowered (and one that I use) I will scream back, end of story.

I only read what the correspondant put in his origional post as well fyi, because after reading that I could really care what he has to say due to his bashing.

As long as this is an issue about _accuracy_, this is fine. Just increase rifle accuracy or lower pistol or both if all the tests show a problem.

I just don't understand why your correspondent made the issue about a HARD CAP on distance, which creates kiting issues. I mean how would you feel if our correspondent asked for rifles not to be able to fire at distances less than 35m? Insane.

If the issue is just accuracy, then have someone in the riflemen group(like Noules, who seems to be smart and even-handed) run some extensive tests with all weapons, and make some good suggestions/requests to the Devsabout _accuracy_ not creating a hard cap on range so you can kite everyone else.

As a note, the values measured from the log:

75% hit rate while standing/standing/autofire
90% hit rate while standing/standing/style (BS3?)
62% hit rate while moving/moving/style

The first set had 139 data points, the second had 51, and the third had 131. The second set is pretty dubious value (2% precision, fairly large margin of error). My guess is that the second set is actually capping at 95%, from the results from my own test at

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=14370

but I did not test BS3 directly (so it's possible BS3 has a lower or higher accuracy mod than +50).

Ald's ranged defense is probably fairly low (+20?) which makes a big difference. I personally have +65 ranged defense when grouped (I'm a master SL) which would have driven those above figures down to 52%/77%/39% (if Ald's ranged def is indeed +20).

Dangit, no edit.

The other specials we have damage Random HAM, are VERY situational,and they are stillway better than Headshot3.

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Philosopher1976 wrote:

I just don't understand why your correspondent made the issue about a HARD CAP on distance, which creates kiting issues. I mean how would you feel if our correspondent asked for rifles not to be able to fire at distances less than 35m? Insane.

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We can't fire at distances less than 35m. Well we can but doing so is pointless, if you are still wielding your rifle when they are that close your either a fool, or really need the xp. I've gotten more pistol xp leveling up rifleman then when I was focusing on pistol to get master marksman. Hell I got to smuggler faster then rifleman when I was focusing on rifle xp. True the hard cap idea isn't the best but at least it's an idea, not a oh everything is fine with the game, just don't look at it closely ideology.

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AldeonAvardulin wrote:

for Noules just before I leave -

accuracy 95

move acc 30

aiming 16

standing 15

speed 74

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Thanks for these, but when you get back, could you provide:

- Your ranged defense
- Pistoleer's creature to-hit mod (comes from hunting under scout, if he has any)
- Weapon range mods

I have derived what I believe is the correct accuracy equation before, and I would like to cross-check with your results (and get preliminary figures for movement mods).

one last note before I wander away from this thread. Those logs dont mean a thing, they show the gross damage, but no damage for armor. FWG5 is AR0 so you can devide all those damages by half, and then apply the reduction due to resistances on armor. The log only shows gross damage, and anyone who knows about weapons knows that armor makes a big big difference.

The study needs to be much more comprehensive to be worth talking about, otherwise you will just get people massaging numbers to suit their needs and beliefs.

in the end all I have to say is dont cry nerf or you will get it cried back at you. call for a max range nerf on pistols and you will get a min range nerf called on you.

Since when did this turn into a damage thread...its a range thread. Forgot to put in my ranged defense, I have 26 ranged defense.

There's nothing really wrong with the current 1 second speed caps, they just need to be tweaked per class. You get +20 speed at marksman. So from Novice rifleman and on you want to go from 20% to 90% in 6 steps/levels linearly. I'm no mathmatician so ppl can check my calculations. I'll label them as .8 and .1 because our modifiers are 1-speed/100. So the difference between .8 and .1 is 8x, 800%, whatever. So the equation is:
x^6=8
6=logx 8
1=(1/6)logx 8
x=8^(1/6)
x=1.41
so we require a 41% increase at each of the 6 levels.
novice rifleman: .8/1.41=.57
Intermediate: .57/1.41=.4
Advanced: .4/1.41=.28
Expert: .28/1.41=.2
master: .2/1.41=.141
master rifleman: .141/1.41=.1 where .1 is what you get at master
So bonus are as follows from Novice to master: +23, +17, +12, +8, +6, +4
There, now our speed progression is linear. Steady 41% speed increases at every level.

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AldeonAvardulin wrote:
I really wish that correspondants couldnt get rated, I have like a 2.5 rating, mostly becuase of people who disagree with me. Oh and every rebel on starsider gives me a 1 star, ive had my posts disappear there before. No matter what I say rebels there give me a 1 star. Some guy will say this costs to much, I will say yeah I agree. Bam 1 star, Im like **edit** did I say.

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Go to My profile, then Personal Preferences, then Rating Quality Filter, set it to 1(all). Now you can see posts that have been ner... I mean given one star.