Rifleman Archive
Thread: The range mod posts in Corre Forums
I do agree with range mods needing fixed. All you pistoleers can whine if you want, but Pistols are short ranged ranged weapons, carbines are midranged (15-45/50m) and rifles are 50m+. If a pistoleer comes within 15m of me I should not have the advantage as a rifleman, on the other hand, if you are 64m out and we are trading shots, 9/10 of those shots (of mine) should hit. I say 9/10 cause everyone will miss once in a while, even at ideal range. At this point there is little difference between the three elite ranged classes, except damage types really.
Also make us use krayt tissues and other mods like pistols. If I am fighting a pistoleer with an FWG5 that is as strong as my strongest weapon, and 10x as fast, guess who's gonna win? It isn't me. 
This goes along the lines of range mods needing fixed BADLY.
First of all, the speed equation as it stands is linear. WeaponSpeed*SpecialMultiplier*(1-Speed/100) is a linear equation. DPS on the other hand uses the inverse of speed and therefore the DPS equation becomes hyperbolic when plotted with respect to speed.
It would be easy to make DPS linear with respect to speed. The following equation is an example:
TotalSpeed = WeaponSpeed*SecialMultiplier*(10/(Speed+10))
With such an equation, the rate of fire becomes hyperbolic.
Currently, as you progress in speed your rate of fire increases proportionally, and is noticeable when you fight. If the equation is changed to that rate of fire increases hyperbolically, then at the higher levels (speed 40+) you will never visually be able to detect an increase. For the player, this could be frustrating as there is no perceived benefit for their skill advancement. This is the downside to giving the community a linear DPS advancement.
Now, Pistoleers’ speed mods max at 74 or 79 with master marksman. Rifle is 90 or 95, and Carbine is 60 or 65 (ignoring BH). With the above speed equation change, every class would see a sizable DPS boost between novice marksman and master of their class (the equation has identical DPS at +0 speed and at +90 speed to the previous equation). However, at master, currently only the Rifleman and the BH would see no improvement.
For the master pistoleer, 74 speed would see a 118% increase in DPS, 79 speed would see an 87% increase.
For the master carbineer, 60 speed would see a 180% increase, and 65 speed would see a 162% increase.
For the master Rifleman, 90 speed would see a 0% increase, and 95 speed would see around 30% to 40% decrease depending on just where they hit the speed cap of 1s. Without the cap it would be a 47.5% decrease.
I can hear all the carbineers and pistoleers crying “halleluiah! Do it!” While the Rifleman cry “Not another Rifleman nerf!”
Given the aforementioned problem with detectability of the above speed equation, perhaps another solution might be considered. Perhaps each class should total the same speed mods. That would even the playing field somewhat in favor of the pistol and carbine classes while still keeping the speed advancement noticeable to players. It would of course not help in class separation/distinction at all. I think we all agree that BH’s skills should be separate from pistol and carbine skills like they already are separate from rifle since the LLC is not considered a rifle but a heavy weapon.
Perhaps this should have gone in a speed post instead of the accuracy post, but we’ve already touched on the speed issue here and I don’t really want to start another thread. If Noules or Aldeon or anyone else wants to use this stuff elsewhere, feel free.
If you disagree, please explain why, I'm all ears.
*looks around for that edit key*
- It makes dealing with stacking bonuses (such as from another class or from skill mod tapes) much easier. Each +x speed would add a specific amount of DPS, rather than an amount wildly variable depending on what amount of speed you have currently. In other words, a +10 speed mod tape would be worth the same DPS to everyone, instead of being MORE valuable to the higher level player.
- Not having an arbitrary cap allows for further expansion. If they added an elite-elite rifleman, there would be no purpose to granting that class additional speed. They've effectively cut themselves off from improving a character through this means in the future.
- It's more in-line with the other DPS increasing bonuses, accuracy and melee damage. Both of those are linear DPS bonus in terms of the mod value. This would mean that +10 unarmed speed would be roughly comparable to +10 unarmed damage, etc. making things again much easier to balance.
Dont get me wrong... I have no problem with changing the speed system or taking a cap. I just want to be compinsated for it. Having your DPS slowed by a third is HUGE and from what i heard there is no way the dev team will evengive us 2 times the dmg so what arelosing TONS of dps and for? If they aregoing to let us one shot kill might as well make it the same dps so 3 times our dmg so we keep the same dps, but they wount. What perks do rifleman get that outweighed by our penalties? I think this class deserves somthing...
Bah out of time ill post later tonight
Jaegen88 wrote:
Why doesnt AR work in PvP? Is this intentional or temporary? Have the devs said? You might consider asking about that since indeed, rifles have the highest AR weapons. Unless you want to get changes to make you balanced now, and then get AR fixed and then have an advantage? I doubt that's your motiviation, but it is a good question to ask the devs. If it's inentional, then yes, we can take that off the list in favor of rifles.
Ifthe Devs are not aware of this issue then they never read any of the posts after theirfirst post.
I have pointed out that AP does not work on targets that have no resist to the damage type being done on many occasions. Add to that the only weapons we have that are higher than AP1 are all energy type and the AP advantage is less thanit would seem tobe.
Many riflemen have been trying to get their issues addressedsince the first week after the game coming out. Pistoleers coming here telling us to get our own class fixed is more than a bit annoying, when we have been trying to, but have up until nowbeen ignored.
RyunosukeKnT wrote:
Also make us use krayt tissues and other mods like pistols. If I am fighting a pistoleer with an FWG5 that is as strong as my strongest weapon, and 10x as fast, guess who's gonna win? It isn't me.
This problem is actually not so much with your tissue-hungry rifle as it is with our suck-cr*p-through-a-strawspecialist pistol. If the DX2 were worth four Krayt tissues, you can bet we'd be just as hungry for them.
The T-21 is worth something, at least. Before you bother ranting about how hard it is to make, relax, I agree with you -- the schematic needs to be toned down.
If you want to compete with a Krayt FWG5, go get a Krayt Laser Rifle or a Krayt Spraystick.
The real problem here is that our best weapon is a Pistol IV weapon, while your best (readily available) weapon is a Rifle II weapon. *This* is what really needs fixing -- weapons need to get steadily more effective and steadily harder to make as you climb the skill trees, rather than peaking early then becoming virtually impossible to find.
-c.
The compramise i was refuring about was thecaping ofaccuracy bonuses at 100so BHs cant be gods.
Noules, can you do the calculations for me on this thread?
Here is mine:
(7.5 * 2.4) - ((7.5 * 2.4) * (70/100)) = 5.4
Maybe I'm missing something or screwing it up somehow.
I do agree with range mods needing fixed. All you pistoleers can whine if you want, but Pistols are short ranged ranged weapons, carbines are midranged (15-45/50m) and rifles are 50m+. If a pistoleer comes within 15m of me I should not have the advantage as a rifleman, on the other hand, if you are 64m out and we are trading shots, 9/10 of those shots (of mine) should hit. I say 9/10 cause everyone will miss once in a while, even at ideal range.
Do you really want to make this like real-life? In real life, nobody in their right mind would bring a pistol against a M16. Just like nobody would bring a M16 against a rocket launcher.
But it's a game. So is stratifying the profession along "distance" be fun to play? Say 0-16m only melee have a chance of hitting. 16-32m only pistoleer, 32-48 carbineer, 48-64 rifleman. If you're unfortunately to get caught outside your "field", just click commit suicide since you have zero chance of winning being that you can only hit 1/10 with no special to help whereas the other guy get to hit you 9/10 with all his special.
Heck, while we're at it, to balance everything out due to movement, make it so the distance you can start engaging an enemy is random. Nah, forget all of that, just roll a dice, if a "6" come up, you win, else you die.
If you're saying at ideal range, you should hit 9/10, a little outside (7/10), way outside (5/10) and everybody can use their special/tactic so they can close/distance range, then it have some fun factor in it.
At this point there is little difference between the three elite ranged classes, except damage types really.
Agree. But if differentiating them make the game unplayable, I rather they be the same.