Rifleman Archive

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DarkShade9 wrote:

i understand what you and waste are saying. We want the same thing, but the thing is i want relief while we wait . Riflemen are a fotm and that cant be denied.

Many of us older Rifleman don't care that our profession is the FotM either. Many of us remembered what it was like before. Back with MOB warping, melee damage multiplier, no buffs, and no armor.

atm pvp, at least mine, is geared towards combatting them (expensive stun armour/ mind enhancing food etc.) and yes i can kill riflemen. the thing is i have to focus all my money and equipment on combatting riflemen, because they are so common and so powerfull. Nowadays every noob can pick up riflemen and be good at pvp, but they can be killed with the right tactics and what not.

A noob Rifleman will get spanked in PvP. At lower level the Rifleman fires extremely slowly and accuracy is horrible.

A lot of people say, any good pvp'er can kill a riflemen / fotm, what happens when the riflemn is good, they win 95% of the time like you stated. I have to be at the top of my game, have the best equipment, latest tactics and whatever just to compete with the average riflemen but when the riflemen who is on top ofhis game with the best equipment and tactics comes along, i get blown out of the water along with all the other poor saps.

Again. I don't think that all PvP is suppose to be 50/50. Certain professions will have certain advantageous over other professions.

Buffs and armour will be nerfed in the cb, however i think a little temporary balancing to riflemen will go a long way to making pvp more enjoyable for everyone.

Most people don't PvP. So you also have to look what the effect will be on PvE which is what the majority actually do. Also any temp balance would have to fit into the combat revamp otherwise it pulls people from coding for more important things and the temp coding would just be removed in a couple months anyways. I don't think that is possible partially because I don't think they know what they are going to do for the combat revamp yet. Probably part of the reason for the Correspondents summit.

oh and waste, i wrote a long response to you latest post too, but the damn forums lost it and i cant be bothered to type it out again. were just going in circles anyway.

I've had that happen a number of times. I'm now in the habit of copying my longer posts just in case. I would like to hear what you said in regards to the accuracy though.

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Waste93 wrote:

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DarkShade9 wrote:

You are forgetting a couple modifiers. Both Rifleman and Pistoleer have Accuracy While Moving mods. That bumps it to 170 and 125. Pistoleers also have an Accuracy While Standing +15. That bumps it to 170 and 140. You also have accuracy mods with specials themselves. Rifleman ones cap at +15. Pistoleer caps at +50. That bumps it to +185 Rifleman and +190 Pistoleer.

So yes. I do know what I'm talking about.

you make a good point, but id still like to point out that accuracy while standing and accuracy while moving obviously would not stack, without these to adding together the total are either riflemen: 160, pistoleer: 110 or riflemen: 170 pistoleer: 125, aslo i didnt know that specials had accuracy mods,if u have a scource with this info, it'd be most useful (im not doubting its validity, i'd just be interested to see).

also, you arenot includingthe accuracy mods on the weapons, the best ive seen on a rifle is like + 100 (dxr6-b) and pistols dont even come near to that.

Message Edited by DarkShade9 on 08-06-2004 06:15 AM

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DarkShade9 wrote:

you make a good point, but id still like to point out that accuracy while standing and accuracy while moving obviously would not stack, without these to adding together the total are either riflemen: 160, pistoleer: 110 or riflemen: 170 pistoleer: 125, aslo i didnt know that specials had accuracy mods,if u have a scource with this info, it'd be most useful (im not doubting its validity, i'd just be interested to see).

also, you arenot includingthe accuracy mods on the weapons, the best ive seen on a rifle is like + 100 (dxr6-b) and pistols dont even come near to that.

The Accuracy while Standing and Accuracy while Moving should stack. There is no reason they wouldn't.

There were some old posts about the accuracy within the specials. It use to be stickied in the Pistoleer forum. Though that was a couple correspondents ago. Here is also a fan website that lists the specials and shows their accuracy mods. Specials Info .

One thing of interest about those. You'll notice that Pistoleer has the highest mods in the specials. Rifles the lowest. With Carbines in the middle. Which is the opposite of the accuracy from the professions. So it should all end up being fairly close. But is also has this effect. At lower levels (Non-Master) it means that those with the higher mods in their specials are more accurate than those without. Since the accuracy at lower levels is fairly even across the professions.

Yes I didn't include accuracy mods for weapons. Reason being is they are far to variable and they also depend on the distance to target. You are correct about the DXR-6b with it's high accuracy. However it is also the only Rifle I've seen with accuracy mods that high. The other rifles are in much more in line with each other.

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DarkShade9 wrote:

ur link is broken bro

btw when i said that accuracy while standing and accuracy while moving shoudlnt stack is because one goes in place of the other, if your moving you get the moving bonus, if your standing still you get the standing still bonus. never both at the same time, so it'd be a bit silly to add them together even if you are showing a base accuracy because it would wouldnt be representativ of the actual effective accuracy a riflemen or pistoleer has, and it is the effective accuracy that is really important.

They don't go in place of each other. You can be standing and not moving. Or you could be standing and moving. When moving you get the movement penalty. What the Accuracy while Moving does is cancel part or all of that out. So yes they would stack. Since the Moving bonus is put in to negate to movement penalty. It has no effect on Standing accuracy.

i havnt seen the special accuracy info yet, but im sure the mods there also have many variables, if you choose to disregard one set of variables in the form of weapon range mods, then why did you include another in the form of special accuraccy (please not that i havnt actually seen the special accuracy info yet, but i assume it is variable.)

I'll let you look thru the special accuracy mods and see just how variable they are or are not. I'll try another clicky but if not here is the addy. http://www.swgcenter.com/info/SpecialMoves.asp

Also keep in mind that though the variables in specials may exist. They don't vary within the special. A BodyShot mod is the same regardless of level, weapon, or server. It's always the same. That can not be said of weapons. Where the range mod will depend on where experimentation points were put, the range, and the resources used to create the weapon.

Specials Mods

Message Edited by DarkShade9 on 08-06-2004 11:42 PM

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DarkShade9 wrote:

there's perhaps a slight misunderstanding here on my part. i was under the impression that accuracy while standing ment accuracy while standing still. You are suggesting that accuracy while standing comes into effect while you are standing as opposed to kneeling or prone. and your probably right, if you could just clarify that'd be great as my whole point is based on this basically lol

Yep. The Accuracy While Standing is a posture related mod. The +15 bonus is the same one you would get for Kneeling I believe. So a Pistoleer Standing but not moving would have the same chance as if they were Kneeling and not moving. At Master level at least.

also i have checked out the sitwe you linke dto, and it does indeed show accuracy for specials, however a lot of info on those specials is outdated or incorrect, so im not inclined to believe them 100%. however i would agree that based on this info pistol specials are more accurate than rifle ones

Yes some of the information is not correct. However I'll keep trying to find the old post that was Stickied in the Pistoleer forum that showed the same data thru testing. I believe the testing was done by VolstedGridban but haven't found it yet. So it may have been someone else that did the posting.

However some of that shoiuld be easy to test. Get a novice level Pistoleer and have them shoot specials at someone with a CDEF and see if the to hit rate matches what their mod is showing or if it's higher which indicates a mod in the special. A Blaster would probably be good for this since it has almost no accuracy mods for range (unless that was changed).

As long as both are standing still and in a standing posture it should be fairly easy to detect (fewer variables that could mess it up). If you are getting pretty much constant hits (don't forget to check the targets ranged defense and preferably find someone that has a really low one or none to serve as the target) you know it's there. Remember also though that there is a cap on the to hit chance of about 95%.

If the specials mods are still there, and I've not seen any patch notes to indicate otherwise (but we know how that goes) it would make all three elite ranged professions about equal in total accuracy. Or at least depending on just a couple variables.

Why they would hide mods in specials like that I'm not sure. Seems to be a bit more coding when they could have just put them in the professions. But I'm not a Dev and don't know their logic.

Found one post that mentions the increase to hit rate from specials. Even says +50%. Not the one I remember but it is a starting point for you to look at. Tester and poster was Noules000 . Here is the statement and the link.

"* Special moves most certainly affect hit rate. Bodyshot2 let me hit the target 64.6% of the time (30.2% miss rate) while regular attacks with all other variables held constant hit 43.9% of the time (54.0% miss rate). That's roughly a 14% swing, which seems to work out to something like +28 accuracy (a very rough estimate seems to be +2 accuracy = +1% chance to hit - it's probably not linear in that manner, though). In this particular case, using BS2 over a regular shot improves the DPS by almost 50% just from accuracy - never mind the damage bonus. This potentially has huge ramifications if some specials have a much larger accuracy bonus. It may mean the damage multiplier and the delay multiplier isn't the end-all, after all (maybe double-tap already IS the long-ranged, accurate special...)."

Weapons Accuracy

And in case the clicky doesn't work. http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=14374&highlight=pistol+special+accuracy#M14374

Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-06-2004 05:47 PM

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KeevJaseri wrote:

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Auto wrote:

I have to disagree, Rifleman are overpowered in that they are more powerful than the other ranged professions in every situation.

Higher AP

Higher Accuracy

Higher Dmg Weapons

Higher DPS

Anyone who says Rifleman arent overpowered has never been a Carbineer, Rifleman in the past was much better, there were reasonable penalties for the great dmg now its practically flavor of the year along with cm.

Combat balance will solve this though.

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IMHO this is exactly how it should be! Rifleman SHOULD be the most powerful ranged profession. I mean that only makes sense. Our T-21 should be a long range head-buster,

Let me rephrase all this. Rifleman should be the most powerful one shot snipers(not saying one shot one kill). I know that commandoes do a ton of damage with those flamers, and carbineer's seem to be able to lay out the offense as well, at least according to Jedi killin BH's

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KeevJaseri wrote:

IMHO this is exactly how it should be! Rifleman SHOULD be the most powerful ranged profession. I mean that only makes sense. Our T-21 should be a long range head-buster,

Let me rephrase all this. Rifleman should be the most powerful one shot snipers(not saying one shot one kill). I know that commandoes do a ton of damage with those flamers, and carbineer's seem to be able to lay out the offense as well, at least according to Jedi killin BH's

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Disagree. All professions should have pros and cons. The Riflemans advantage should be offensive power. Their disadvantes are defense.

Nor can Rifleman be Snipers for a large variety of reasons.