Ranger Archive
Thread: Ranger Revamp: The Proposal
Hasun
Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:22 am
#105
SickSix wrote:
well, I would just like to basically re-post my wants for the profession:
- Useful Camps
- Trap Expiermentation!!!!!! (only two Adhesive Mesh traps??? gimme a break...)
- Better Camo ability. ( camo vs. npcs, and players, ie. hide color of radar dot signature)
- Defense mods of some sort. (melee, since that's primary attack of creatures, but could be mix of melee/ranged)
- Offensive mods of some sort. (i personally believe Ranger should be tied to Rifleman, but since that is highly unlikely, then general ranged mods would work.)
- Draw a BIG FAT LINE between Ranger and Scout. Perhaps even have Ranger require another Novice box. Marksman anyone?
This biggest issue is to get the DEVS to admit that Ranger (even scout really) Are Combat professions because the Professions REQUIRE the player engage in combat in order to level. Name me one other "support" profession that has to do this???
I think a Ranger player complements another combat player very well. People have to remember this is a multi-player online game and there are times when we all need to group together, that's what makes this game great, but unfortunatly melee professions became more than tanks and the need to group went away.
I'm sure after the CURB, we will all need a melee, a ranged, a medic and a ranger in a harvesting group, just like the old days.
Hasun
Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:27 am
#106
Before bounty hunter requirements were reduced,I picked up ranger tracking to help me do investigation (if you remember it was bugged and to find a mark ranger tracking came in handy) but been a bit thickI struggled with east and west (which way was which) soI was wondering if there could be an onscreencompass for the ranger maybe?
Bethya
Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:21 am
#107
>soI was wondering if there could be an onscreencompass for the ranger maybe?
Umm... isn't that what the little circle radar thing is for? There's one solid arrow on the outer ring that points north with east, south and west marked by a more solid mark.
PhatCohiba
Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:12 am
#108
Why track animals... I think two reasons. To find a specific creature for a mission like jedi trials, or gurk king. or to harvest a specific type of resource.
My comments are only for the first type of tracking.
As someone who has done BH and MR. There should be a way to do tracking BH style.
for example, consider the following.
Some jedi wants to find an acient krayt or Graul Marauder. You go do a high concentration area of that creature and type:
/track Giant Dune Kimogila
At that point, you might geta updating WPs to the creature. If you are a long way away, you might lose the track, but if your close the auto-updating wp gets you closer to a single animal spawn.
My comments are only for the first type of tracking.
As someone who has done BH and MR. There should be a way to do tracking BH style.
for example, consider the following.
Some jedi wants to find an acient krayt or Graul Marauder. You go do a high concentration area of that creature and type:
/track Giant Dune Kimogila
At that point, you might geta updating WPs to the creature. If you are a long way away, you might lose the track, but if your close the auto-updating wp gets you closer to a single animal spawn.
wizardrahl
Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:35 am
#109
Sorry kiddie your wrong about both things. There are static spawns for both. Gurk King is located moslty the north side of the volcano on lok near one of the static spawns of the Kimogola. Pretty finds some gurks, kill the lair, and the gurk king spawns close to the end of the lair. As for the jedi trials pets. When was the last time a jedi needed assistants finding anything from the trials that they couldn't find on thier own. Never had any jedi asking me for directions. The only thing for animals now with current upgrades is maybe the boar, or exploration missions. Npcs maybe the farmer or pirates, and let me be honest, I mostly stumble onto those two more times than I have ever tracked them. Heck i wasnt ablt to track the "elusive peko peko albatross" i stumbled on top of him north naboo beaches between Theed for about 1000m.
I am up for mostly combat improvements with ranger....don't get wrong. I mean for ranger to be a plus to a combat profession, not a minus. I did post something that terrain negotiation should be woth something.
I did read the camo thing on the links that was posted. I didnt notice anything said about haveing /conceal be used like a spam blocker. Just have it stop sending the info to those computers. If not just have players turn invisible and have the targeting blocked. If they can't see you, they should be able to target you. So, what if they can spot you on the radar then let the mind games begin.
Yes, I would like to see a battalion of rebel/imperial comeout of nowhere like 'Predators' to start fighting. Thats why should have "scouts" keep an eye out on thier camp.
Ihaveabadname2
Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:50 pm
#110
Hakai wrote:
Ihaveabadname2 wrote:
This is pointless, end your rant now. You were wrong, people make mistakes and that's okay. I understand.
Bethya wrote:
I'm going to bite my tongue and simply state for the record that I have nothing against the idea of camo working against players. In amongst the vitriol, I can detect a genuine desire in various postings to improve PvP and I can relate to that. If thatis what floats your boat then fine... I hope you get changes that you consider to be improvements. Personally it wouldn't bother me if they did this removing from radar thing or if they didn't do it... I honestly couldn't care less.
What I do care about is
a. people who make posts that begin - "I haven't read all the suggestions in the forum but if I could re-do Ranger, this is what I'd do". I think itshows a basic lack of courtesy for your fellow player and the ideas that (in some cases) people have put a great deal of time and effort into.
b. people who can't be bothered to read FAQs and the posts deemed worthy of stickies, which rehearse a good deal of the basic ideas put forward and, in some cases, the reasons why those ideas can or can't be done. After all, surely it would be better to formulate a revamp that the devs can implement rather than have a wishlist that just gets more or less rejected because it can't be done?
My original post has obviously raised such ire amongst those who obviously know far more than I could ever possibly aspire to ascertainin my puny little "kiddie" experience!! I posted simply because I had seenfour orfive posts on the idea recently and I was simply hoping to inform the players who fell into either category a or b that this particular ideawasn't likely to happen. I did soin the (apparently) vain hope that it would end discussion on that particular topic and allow us to focus on more implementable ideas for the long-awaited and (let's hope) much to be enjoyed revamp.
Goodness me did I ever get that wrong!
Ihaveabadname2
Please cease your postings about trying to prove someone wrong. it's no longer part of the subject matter, and you're not proving anything further.
Hey, I proved that they were wrong, no need to rant on me about it.
Camo should work on Players!
Bethya
Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:19 am
#111
Oh yes, that's precisely what you proved. *rofl*. I would have thought that most people here thought you proved something entirely different.
/bitetongue
/counttoten
/rememberbetterthingstospendtimeon
Message Edited by Bethya on 03-01-2005 12:22 PM
Hakai
Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:13 pm
#112
Bethya wrote:
Oh yes, that's precisely what you proved. *rofl*. I would have thought that most people here thought you proved something entirely different.
/bitetongue
/counttoten
/rememberbetterthingstospendtimeon
Message Edited by Bethya on 03-01-2005 12:22 PM
Owen-Lars
Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:12 pm
#113
I have a proposal in the works atm, ill try get it posted tonight.
I only started it a few hours ago so bare with me and dont expect the world heh. It aproaches froma different perspective talking about specifically the advancement over our scout skills and its very anti-scout+
SickSix
Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:34 pm
#114
YES!!!!!
Owen-Lars wrote:
I have a proposal in the works atm, ill try get it posted tonight.
I only started it a few hours ago so bare with me and dont expect the world heh. It aproaches froma different perspective talking about specifically the advancement over our scout skills and its very anti-scout+
CuchulainnDarklight
Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:11 am
#115
Ok, let me say my piece here.
Ive been a ranger since 2 months into my playing of SWG and i used to love it.
In groups you could camo everyone and they would just go "what the hell was that? hey cool im camoed!"
You could whip out a high level camp and people passing by would just pop in to say "this is cool mate!"
On hunts you could stand back, lob traps, and rescue any unbuffed prat who really pissed off something nasty and the docs couldnt be bothered healing him.
After a month of this, and there only being a handful of rangers on my server you started to see camps popping up everywhere as everyone started to do this cool profession they hadnt thought of before - suddenly though, when they mastered they went "Hang on this is a bit crap!" and promptly went for something else.
Now most people have a hang up about what a rangers particular combat-role should be, and from above you can see that, it used to be combat-support for hunting parties, i.e. the expert hunter brought in to help the city slickers when they are out bagging that big game. However as SWG has become less social (seen anyone in AH since JTL - an empty hive of scum and villiany) we have to fend for ourselves. So, as rangers we take a combat profession to make ourselves more survivable.
This is where the arguments begin, combat-support or combat-oriented.
WHY NOT BOTH.
Quite simply why not have (as mentioned often before) ranger oriented weapons such as, different types of bow, hunting knife etc. These weapons will be effective against creatures, NPCs and PCs. But they will be MUCH more effective against creatures.In other wordsyou will have state attacks, bleed attacks, and MOST IMPORTANTLY a silent shot (like the riflemans conceal shot) and at MASTER RANGER a 1 shot 1 kill attack (best used in game as a very high damage attack that is slow but deadly) with a SIGNATURE weapon. This would show the rangers knowledge of animals and hunting in that he can hit the most vulnerable spots on a creature after years of practice. For PCs and NPCs these signature weapons can also be used - but with less effectiveness than against creatures (bleeds, silent shot and master high damage shot - BUT NO state effects, i will explain why later) - they are are forte after all.
Now we are combat oriented - we can kick ass (or at least turn it into a pincushion), what about combat support you say?
Firstly, I believe we are still useful in a combat support role (especially against creatures) but we can regain some of our, for want of a better term, coolness with just the tweaking of what we currently have. These skills are our tracking, camoflague and trapping skills.
Firstly Tracking, who deosnt get constant tells asking them to find this or that for someone, thats ranger RP and GP all in one there, only problem is the last box. How many times has a BH asked for your help in tracking his jedi mark eh, maybe this would be more useful if players other than jedis could have bounties placed on them, but thats a question for the BHs to sort out themselves!!!
Next we have camo, it works great as it does now, EXCEPT for the fact it does not seem to work on NPCs (for me anyway). Fix this and its fine. Pvp you cry. Well maybe we should have the ability in PvP but i think it would be to difficult to implement and we now have weapons so lets not ask for too much - and anyway i have more coming - read on!
Now , Trapping. Lets get it out of the way first TRAPGUN, i say again TRAPGUN, why on earth (or Tatooine for that matter) would a hunter run up to a deadly creature and poke it in the eye with a dart, yes a DART, that does 5-10 HAM damage and gives the creature a slight headache. Why not have a trapgun, a creature comes towards you and you launch a net that brings the creature down for a good period of time (the tougher the creature the quicker it breaks the net), or fire a knockout dart that actually knocks the creature out (same manner as net above). Now you may say, we have bows - what need do we have of traps? Well our bows dont do state effects on NPCs or PCs but our traps do. No ground traps either (no pits, no trip wires etc.), why, because this would be to dificult to implement and its kind of like placing a mineral harvester and waiting for the mineral to come to you - we need to be proactive!
YEAH we can FIGHT now.
Two major arguments against this will be Rangers are now kick ass fighters this isnt fair (from other professions). And, hey im a master shooty weapon or pokey cuttey weapon, or a punchy kick guy and a ranger what will this do for me?
Firstly, to make the use of state effects more difficult to obtain make bows arrows knifes and traps craftable by ONLY rangers, you want a poison arrow for creature state effects or a poison dart for NPC state effects, you need to gather or purchase the resources to make it yourself, Wood for bows and arrows, wood and metal for better bows and arrows, metals for the best bows and arrows, and the poisons for the state effects can be made by adding FORAGED items or looted stuff to the craft. Now we finally have a use for forage, and sarlacc bile and other similar materials can be used to tip your darts and arrows, plus particular traps require particular resources (i.e. Tat leathery hide for nets etc.). Also, the Trapgun itself will be a crafted weapon and the best will cost a lot (as the best weapons do) and EVERY shot fired from it will have a HAM (or whatever special attack cost becomes in CU) cost.
Now for ranger/combat prof mixes you say Sorry guys but youstill haveall your creature to hit bonuses (like they make much of a diff anyway when you are a master) but you gain some special skills in ranger in addition, why moan, except for melee people who gain a working creature to hit bonus (I believe at the moment its only for ranged professions). HUNTING BLIND, similar to take cover - but uses resources - and gives all shooty types a conceal shot against animals capability (sorry to keep melee out of this, but to be honest, a hunter doesnt sneak up on a crocodile and try to beat the crap out of it unless hes a madman like Steve Irwin!). And perhaps most importantly - proper melee damage mitigation - but no ranged damage mitigation.
Now to me this makes a ranger an ALMOST self sufficient hunter, he crafts, he hunts, he fights, he gets buffs (forage needs to be improved, but not by too much), he can heal (camps), he gathers his own resources (creature harvest - needs to be improved, but like forage we all know how this should be done). And all these different areas complement each other - which means becoming a MASTER RANGER is a prerequisite of being successful, and dabblers will be reduced to being trackers - or carrion feeders (harvesting). And most importantly he doesnt need an elite combat prof to enjoy the game (ranger is an elite profession itself) and he has the skill points to take a elite combat profession - for when you encounter those times that a trusty blaster is more effective than ancient weapons.
Now when your skills inform you a kreetle is stalking you - you dont have to run away in abject terror like the great hunter you are!!!
Finally we need some cool clothes -
1 or more of the following
- A HAT
- A GHILLIE SUIT
- A PAIR OF FISHING WADERS (fishing is cool, apart from when your hide boots flood)
This is just my thoughts after being a ranger for nine months and dabbling in every proffesion (and trying them all as master in the JTL beta).
Please tell me if my ideas are a pile of krayt crap, or are worth further exploration!!
NOTE: anything i havent mentioned i think is fine as it is (I think thats just terrain negotiaton and examining creatures).
And dont get hung up on this Rangers are soldiers in the RW so they should be in SWG.
Im a ranger myself (British Army, Royal Irish Regiment (Rangers)) and what i have outlined above I could do in real life - to a degree - its survival training. But there are survivalist, hunting experts and there are soldiers, and there are enough soldiers in SWG as it is.
And as a final point the US Rangers where formed in Northen Ireland during WW2 hence there similar name to our regiment, and funilly enough, the US rangers say "Rangers lead the way" and the Royal Irish shout "faugh a ballagh" a several hundred year old motto which translates fromgaelic to "Clear the way", in other words "Get out of the way you dozy english pricks and let us show you how real soldiers fight!"
Thanks to all the people i stole ideas off!
Cuchulann Darklight
Chimaera
Ranger for life, but, ill try anything else once
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 03-12-2005 04:16 AM
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 03-12-2005 04:52 AM
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 03-12-2005 04:53 AM
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 03-12-2005 06:03 AM
Felisconcolori
Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:22 am
#116
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Finally we need some cool clothes -
1 or more of the following
- A HAT
- A GHILLIE SUIT
- A PAIR OF FISHING WADERS (fishing is cool, apart from when your hide boots flood)
Very cool ideas, I like them. I don't know if the Devs will go along, but it sounds fairly nice to me. Everything but this bit in blue... as a Trandoshan, I never have a problem with my hide boots (they look very nice on the wall) and I imagine hip waders will probably look just as nice next to them.
Wait, how about the hip waders being a new loot? But only something that you can get as a result of fishing... y'know, like pulling ina boot or a broken datapad with really lousy poles.
CuchulainnDarklight
Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:52 pm
#117
Thanks for the feedback - i just wanted to put across that the idea of a MR as a tough guy outdoors creature hunting bloke didnt mean he had to be just tough at fighting critters - but could be a pretty useful guy in most fights! As well as retaining his core creature and landscape knowledge skills