Ranger Archive
Thread: we do NOT want carbines
Phenix1050 wrote:
But something just doesn't seem "right" about this. It feels like one of the things that made Ranger great was catering to all playstyles. Melee guys could RP a spec-operations guy or a hunter. Ranged guys could do the same. There was no "best" way to be a Ranger, and that's not true now. Now the best way will be Master Ranger and either carbineer or BH and CM 4000. It's sad to go from having any template, any profession work well to having one or two FOTM templates. To go from being wide open to interpretation, to being pushed not only into ranged weapons, but into a limited number of templates...it just seems so...wrong.
Hmm Chuck Norris in Walker Texas Ranger toss away his shootgun or pistol to kick the **edit** out of ppl so my suggestion is Trapping4 and Unarmed 4 
This argument also goes well with the old amiga game Ranger Assault where you hit ppl with your fist until you upgrade to a knife and the Rifles only have 3 shoots and is used to remove obtacles.
Of course am i just joking but i feel worried about to make this a pure ranged proffesion because most rangers i know is pikemans or TKM. Of course i know ranger riflemans and some ranger pistoleers and even a BH/ranger, but most arent and they are abit sensetive because CU hurt them bad because increased use sp in riflemans and the other elites, so i feel as if this comes to be one more ranged proffession i will loose friends. I have now seen alot of diffrent suggestions and most seem to favor BH/ranger mix, Trapping 4 and Survival 4 would only benefit squadleader and those would also need some love and still leave it open for decent melee rangers, i dont see why they need 2 novice proffessiosn when CH and Doc doesnt need it and Doc even got some defense modifiers and i dont see anythign wrong with give CH bonus to defense and maybe maskscent because they after all know how animal thinks and shall survive the beast they tame.
What ever they decide to do i hope the change will be the best for all old time rangers, if the 1337 kids that want an uber template gets screwed i dont care i more thinking of the guys that has been rangers for more then 1 and maybe 2 years the remap should be for them and make them happy.
I cross my fingers for something the rangers can accept and be happy to get.
untrue. that only applies for ranged combatants. melee combatants with the carbines line will have 9 skillpoints left, not even enough for novice medic. that's my biggest concern. sure, any ranged template will still have a bare minimum of 38 skillpoints to mess around with, which is great...but at the expense of melee rangers.
Arawaen wrote:
Master Ranger even with the Carbines IV/Exploration IV prereqs will be combinable with any other elite or hybrid profession in the game, giving you maximum flexibility to design your concept.
Balrozgul wrote:
Trapping and RS4 make more sense though because it offers the most flexibility to ranged combatants. BH/rifle/carb/pistoleer/SL all only need to add one line to get to them as opposed to explore/carbines where you'd have to add two lines to pick up rifle/pistol/SL. Im sad for the melee rangers, as I had pikes/ranger for a long time and know how it is, but I dont see a way to get around the hybridization towards ranged. The consolation for melee might be that it might be easier to pick up CM instead of doc if it was RS4
It's really dissapointing - because it hurts the Melee folks - but RS4 really seems to be the best option if doing two lines in Scout isn't possible.
Because it is such a drastic change to the profession, and one which should have accompanied the CU, I think there really is place for argument that the Pre-Reqs come purely from the Scout Profession. Hopefully we can push this and do what we Rangers always do...
the impossible.
In the end, I think it's a given that we're going to be a hybrid. I know that, and sadly, I don't think that there's going to be much room in the new Ranger system for melee-specifc people. That's a shame, I think. I don't mean to come as telling you that the tracking 4 + RS 4 lines is a bad idea. In the end, I think it's a good one. and I really don't mind the carbines restriction for my character. All told, if it's carbines, my toon will be that much better.
But something just doesn't seem "right" about this. It feels like one of the things that made Ranger great was catering to all playstyles. Melee guys could RP a spec-operations guy or a hunter. Ranged guys could do the same. There was no "best" way to be a Ranger, and that's not true now. Now the best way will be Master Ranger and either carbineer or BH and CM 4000. It's sad to go from having any template, any profession work well to having one or two FOTM templates. To go from being wide open to interpretation, to being pushed not only into ranged weapons, but into a limited number of templates...it just seems so...wrong.
I agree, with carbines and exploration, there's going to be some nice templates. but...beyond that? I guess I just feel bad for the people who are watching the profession they love slip away. To go from being able to call yourself a Teras Kasi Student, and a Ranger, and to have a template that was comparable to other Ranger templates...that was great. There was no "best" way to play Ranger. We were all different. I guess I just wish that some people didn't have to lose their templates to make templates like mine all the more powerful.
_________ wrote:right? we do NOT want carbines to be a req for ranger!!
I do. /shrug
Nikolai_Xavierov wrote:
First of all, if they chose any weapon, Rifles would make the most sense. The whole point of Ranger is stand-off combat, traps, stealth, etc. This is true for rifleman. I.E. set up your trap, cover, target gets hit by trap, open up your fire.
It's not a run and gun type thing. Carbines dont fit at all, whoever says otherwise is psychotic. But to be FAIR you'd go with RS4 not any specific weapons skill, BUT if the devs are hard up on a weapons skill, Rifles is the choice, not carbines.
Rifles are kinda heavy and unwieldy to be running and gunning. Carbines were designed for that purpose.
If you say carbineer fits then it is because of what YOU associate with carbineer, and because of what You read in the our rewrap document, and because of how YOU se thoughts two thing working together for YOUR charter.
One thing we have to keep in mind though, if a single weapon in pre-req terms, it will have an effect on the balancing. If it for example remains carbineer 4, then the devs will have to balance the most powerful ranger combat template with other posible templates. So M-Ranger/M-Carbineer/BH0444 or M-Ranger/M-Carbineer/CM4000 or something like that.
And therefore all non Carbineer rangers will again be less combat viable then non rangers.
If on the other hand 2 lines of Scout are the pre-req and all rangers are "equally mess up" then balancing can take care of that. Simply add more combat mods to the Master Ranger box until Master Rangers is balanced with other combat professions.
Owen,
thats why I am all for trapping 4 and Marksman 4 as preqs it gives us more oprions than marksman 0040