Ranger Archive
Thread: we do NOT want carbines
Phenix1050 wrote:
Rolfie wrote:
With Scout 4400 as a prereq not much changes I now have a low level bacta toss in medic and novice bacta shot. I get Medic 0200.
you'd math seems a little fudged.
Master Ranger + combat profession wth scout 4400 has 38 skillpoints left over. novice medic costs 15. that's 23 skillpoints left. it takes 14 points to get medic 0040. That's9 points left. It takes9 points to get medic 0300. So you can pick up Medic 0340 with the points left over. or you can pick up medic 0400 (costs 29 skilpoints) and novice CM and medic 0010if you're a ranged profession.
now if you have BH, you have 52 skillpoints left over. novice medic costs 15, so you have 37 left. - 14 for medic 0400. now you're at 23. - 6 for CM. now you're at 17. 14 points for CM 4000.
Yes you are correct I over corrected by 14 points. None the less we still fall short of the skill points left over by other professions.
I see you resistance to Scout 0400 and Novice Combat skill now.
As a bounty hunter you have something you would deny to every Master Ranger CM4000.
Message Edited by Rolfie on 09-23-2005 09:42 AM
Tanks wrote:
The devs vision of Ranger is a Ranged Combat Hybrid template. I think they have chosen the best Scout pre-req. for the martial Ranger. The old Ranger is Scout now. So, if someone wants a creature centric melee profession they can master Scout and melee profession of their choice. The only difference will be not having the "Ranger" title.
Maxanto wrote:
If rangers are so bent out of shape about a lack of melee... why don't the BH complain about this at all? They are just like us, one branch scout one marksmen. I never remember hearing the BH whine as much as we are about not having access to melee.
The reason is that most BHs realize that even if we had access to melee all our mods are RANGED mods, the same as Ranger will be. So, even if we had access to melee none of the accuracy and speed mods would be useful.
The guys pushing for melee do not see or want to seethis yet, hence the complaints.
Rolfie wrote:
I see you resistance to Scout 0400 and noivice Combat skill now.
As a bounty hunter you have something you would deny to every Master Ranger CM4000.
lol. seriously...do you read what I write?I've already said that thebest solution would be Scout 0400 and novice elite combat profession. I've said it multiple times. Do you want me to say it again? Okay. Yes, scout 0400 and novice combat profession would be the best solution. There. Happy? But they won't do that since they'd have to re-code EVERY hybrid profession.
As far as your assumptions of me trying to wield CM, 4000...I must laugh. As I said before, I'd pick up more carbine skills. I have no desire to have CM4000 in my template. I don't need it.
Tanks wrote:
Maxanto wrote:
If rangers are so bent out of shape about a lack of melee... why don't the BH complain about this at all? They are just like us, one branch scout one marksmen. I never remember hearing the BH whine as much as we are about not having access to melee.
The reason is that most BHs realize that even if we had access to melee all our mods are RANGED mods, the same as Ranger will be. So, even if we had access to melee none of the accuracy and speed mods would be useful.
The guys pushing for melee do not see or want to seethis yet, hence the complaints.
Phenix1050 wrote:
This is exactlywhat I'm trying tolook at, Tanks. I'm questioning thedesire of the devs for Ranger to become another ranged hybrid.As I've said, it helps me. But I don't think that we should just "become" a hybrid without considering the impact to other playstyles. This is not simply shifting the requirements, it's making Ranger a completely different kind of class. and I don't think simply dismissing this out of hand is a good thing. We cannot simply say "well, the devs want us to by hybrids, so whatever. We need to consider whether becoming a hybrid is the best thing for our community as a whole. I'm not convinced it is, and nobody has been able to provide an adequate reason why some rangers should be forced to either only have 9 skillpoints, or work up a ranged combat profesion, just so others can have a slightly better template.
I guess I'm sort of getting resigned to the fact that we're going to have SOME line from Marksman as a pre-req - I don't see any other way for the devs to get us to have "combat style XP" to level up by killing stuff outside of tying us to SOME combat pre-req. It saddens me to think that we're going to lose a lot of flexibiltiy if that comes to pass tho.
One thing I don't want us to lose sight of in the discussion on the pre-req is what the pre-req should translate to as well. If ranger becomes a hybrid, we definitely need to get specials that are useful in combat. Our camo and traps already sound like they'll be VERY limited in usefulness - especially if they can't be used in cities or where "stuff is built" it sounded like, can't be placed in build zones, etc - that would be very limiting and make those things almost useless. If urban camo can only be used in cities, but can't be enabled in cities due to humanoids being around... um, what's the point? And why are our weapons (traps) not able to be used in cities? Can a BH no longer shoot someone in a starport? Does this mean Jedi will no longer be able to duel outside the Theed starport (yeah!)? See where I'm going with this? Why are we once again having all sorts of rather massive limitations placed on our abilty to use our skills, when no other profession in the game is limited in such a way?
I'd just like to get some more concrete answers as to WHY on these things. Some of the limitations don't seem to fit in with what any other profession can do (creature only, humanoid only, not able to use things in cities anywhere when half or more of some planets are nothing BUT wall-to-wall cities)...
Tanks wrote:
Phenix1050 wrote:
This is exactlywhat I'm trying tolook at, Tanks. I'm questioning thedesire of the devs for Ranger to become another ranged hybrid.As I've said, it helps me. But I don't think that we should just "become" a hybrid without considering the impact to other playstyles. This is not simply shifting the requirements, it's making Ranger a completely different kind of class. and I don't think simply dismissing this out of hand is a good thing. We cannot simply say "well, the devs want us to by hybrids, so whatever. We need to consider whether becoming a hybrid is the best thing for our community as a whole. I'm not convinced it is, and nobody has been able to provide an adequate reason why some rangers should be forced to either only have 9 skillpoints, or work up a ranged combat profesion, just so others can have a slightly better template.
Well, the devs are considering the new Ranger to be a Combat profession. Of course, you have your roots in Scout so it makes sense to pick a line of Scout. Explore 4 makes the best sense as you actually get something useful out of it.
Now, comes the choice of combat, Melee or Ranged. Given the hi-tech traps that the Ranger is getting, it makes sense to pick Marksman, hence Ranged. Also, every Marksman based profession has Combat Support 4 as a pre-req. That means you can have a lot more options as a Ranger to pick a complementary Combat Elite profession to Master or Master and dabble. The choice for Carbines was explained by the devs, so I won't go into it.
Again, Ranger is getting Ranged mods in skill trees, so it will stack well with any Ranged elite Profession, some better than others though. Are the devsencouraging theRangers towards being Carbineers? Yes, but that is not a bad thing. There are too many Rifleman in the game already.
Hrmmm.....well...it sounds like their minds are made up then. *sigh* I really do not want to give up Rifleman. I'm not sure how I'm going to make this work now. /ponder
Good points in this thread by you though Tanks. Tanks for stopping by.
Oy did I just say that......
Tanks wrote:
Maxanto wrote:
If rangers are so bent out of shape about a lack of melee... why don't the BH complain about this at all? They are just like us, one branch scout one marksmen. I never remember hearing the BH whine as much as we are about not having access to melee.
The reason is that most BHs realize that even if we had access to melee all our mods are RANGED mods, the same as Ranger will be. So, even if we had access to melee none of the accuracy and speed mods would be useful.
The guys pushing for melee do not see or want to seethis yet, hence the complaints.
Tanks... are you the longest lasting COR in the game? I can't remember any BH COR's except you now lol.
Yea I agree perfectly. How I see it is there are a lot of Melee Rangers... I was M Ranger TKM for ages before the CU. I know what they are thinking... It is gonna be rough for them the most. I understand completely as I have played this game since day one. I have been screwed so many times by the devs constantly changing the game in ways that does not and did not suit my own personal FOTM...Wanna know what I did?
I changed my template.
I see 3 possible things we can all do.
1) Deal with the change and not have any many SP's as we would like.
2) Change professions.
3) Whine and complain all day/ leave the game.
So let me make this easy for you all... If you picked #3 you are a quitter and I have 0 respect for you.
We must be like the reed...bend in the wind or snap and die... which you do is your choice.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Hrmmm.....well...it sounds like their minds are made up then. *sigh* I really do not want to give up Rifleman. I'm not sure how I'm going to make this work now. /ponder
Give up rifleman? If I was a Rifleman/Ranger, no way I'd give it up with these changes. Look what you can add on.
BH xx4x = M/R def and speed, Improved Underhand shot
BH 4xxx = NPC BH missions and Improved duelist stance.
Carb xx4x = M/R def and single target and AoE (cone?) Knockdown with charge shot
Carb x4xx = bunch of accuracy + Improved crippling shot
or a bit of Medic.
For PvP'rs it might be different, I dont know...I pvp in Battlefield 2
Message Edited by Jaeryk on 09-23-2005 02:22 PM
I am a TKMaster / Master Ranger, I would be ok with the Ranged SUpport IV prereq, I would have to leave TKM but ah well, I have a niceAssault Bowcaster and anywayI am Ranger first and have always been on the para-military bandwagon.
I understand why they see Carbs iv as a potential pre-req,spec-forces (delta/sas/spetsnaz etc)get to choose their own personal weapon, which on average is a med ranged(very good to 300m)weapon with auto capability.