Ranger Archive

Delta, I haven't been here as long as a lot of people, but I've madea point of trying to be contructive and as helpful as any people. In responce to Thuderhearts' comment onhow we needed to let the Devs know our identity, I created a thread called "The Ranger Identity Crisis, where people can put intelligent, insiteful suggestions and ideas of where Rangers could and should go. There are plenty of threads like this and when you say that all you see is whining, it make me feel (and I'm sure a lot of others too) that you aren't reading all the threads. We DO try to be contructive. Look at the responces to our "Top Ranger Issues" thread. It's AMAZING how many ideas come forward.

Look at it this way, we're gamers. We pay to play this game and in fact it's AMAZING that we can so closely interact with the development team in making our game better. But if you set up a system such as this, you have to be willing to get criticism. These people are simply expressing a frustration thatalot of Rangers feel. Not everyone can come up with brand new ideas to help, so they have to express a desire for change in their own way. Even some of the people who come up with new ideas can be frustrated. Our wish list is extensive and impressive and in every way reflects the ability and dedication of NRass, who has done an incredible job.

But if you think that WE have a problem with whining, take a look at a lot of other boards. We have done an incredible job of coming up with ideas, and I think that it's a little insulting to see you come down on our heads about whining, Yes, it seems like it's worthless whining, but other proffessions have gotten things changed due (in my mind) to LARGE volumes of whining and insulting the devs.

You have to understand that THIS thread in particular is a slap in the face of Rangers. I'm sure you've read our wishlist. I think all of us realize that most of this will never come to fruition. A lot of our ideas are just incompatible with the game. But the fact is, the wishlist is a compilation of ALL the ideas (good ones) on the board. So while NRass compiled them, all of us had to come up with the ideas. It is not the lack of ideas that is hurting us. The wishlist was read by the devs, they HAD to see the ideas we had. But all we got was a responce to our bugs. That hurts. No matter how you much you tell us that other proffessions have problems, you have to realize that not having your ideas even mentioned, hurts. We as a proffession are not broken, (although the claim could be made that it is not our gameplay, but our spirits that are broken), but that doesn't mean that GOOD ideas should be ignored. And maybe they aren't, maybe they're working on it, but not giving a responce that they are even looking at our ideas (I'm refering to the fact that we were TOLD that they're only looking at the bugs right now.

I think that this thread is insulting. I agree that we could sound just whiny on this thread, but I think on average we're pretty good at accepting and moving on. If there is ANY thread we should feel free to complain, it's this one. The fact that when they look at the pages upon pages of bugs, suggestions and ideas that we have made and NRass has compiled, and then all we get is a responce to our top five bugs (not to mention the fact that of those only three were truely a responce) I think you should cut us a little slack on the complaining front. We're angry, and it will subside. Much like you said you did, we will be accustomed to this and we'll move on. Right now, it's a fresh wound and I think you saying we shouldn't complain is just rubbing salt into it.

I know you're right about the fact that complaining will get us nowhere, but only because we lack the numbers to affect the community with our whining. I still think we need to come up with ideas and such, even if we know that most of them will go unread or unresponded to. Part of it is the fact that someone may come up with an idea that gets the attention of someone who can change things, part of it is that it takes our mind off of the problems we have. Right now, and especially on this thread, however, I think that complaining is okay, as long as it doesn't insult NRass, who has done everything imaginable to get our voices (though they be but few) heard over the shouts of the more populated proffessions.

Besides, in the words of a Bounty Hunter I once met, I pay the money so it's my **edit** right to whine. lol, just kidding.

Seriously though, if you haven't read many of the un-sticky'd threads, give them a try. There's a LOT of good ideas out there, if you know where to look.shameless self plug alerg----------->Hint: any thread i posted. <------shameless self plug alert. Seriously, though I've read more constructive pages here than complaining ones. I think we're headed in the right direction and a lot of threads offer more constructive ideas that many other proffesions have on their entire boards.

'Till next time, ladies and gentlemen: peace, love, and Rangering.

it was addressed.

The Responses

1. Camps Not Repelling Aggressive Creatures

2. Areatrack bugs

4. Traps bugs

• These problems will be looked into and fixed up as soon as possible.

Well said Pheonix.

To me waiting since august is being patient. The reaction here is about frustration and disappointment, it doesnt mean they havent been patient for month after month. I see no harm in venting, its good for the soul.

In no way do I blame any coorespondant for the state of things, specially not NRass, heck I dont even blame TH, he is no less of a cog in the wheel than the players are. However, I also dont buy the excuses of 'it takes time' or that 'things are better'. Things being better speaks more to how pathetic it was, than it speaks to how good we have it now. Its not the players fault that TH, or someone like him, wasnt hired until months after release. Its not the players fault that Greenmarine is in charge of so much stuff and clearly has not enough time in the day to take care of the professions under him. Those are SOE problems and I dont accept them as excuses for anything.

I guess in the end I am being somewhat selfish. The game for me is running out of time and I need something to look forward too and frankly its not being provided. 'we are looking into it' isnt a response and saying that kind of response takes time tocome up withis just plain lying in my opinion.

Cul

What I've found to be useful in SWG (as well as all MMOGs) is that it's better to find something you enjoy right now rather than wait for it to get better. This scales from individual abilities all the way to making a choice between playing a Live game versus joining the pre-game hype on forums.

Rangers already had a major pass. There are professions far worse than our's that haven't even had that. The pass actually drew me to become a Ranger. I have no real complaints about what our limited abilities can do, mostly because they work at all (versus the state of things before August).

But it's better to determine if you like what you see. Once you've achieved it, you can re-achieve it later. That's the pull of Holocrons. That's why I ignore them, but that's another topic

Don't wait around for SOE to give us another nod, because we have no control at all on how they manage their resources. It's nobody's fault. They're a company with money and budgets and schedules. They prioritize differently. If we don't get some features, it's because across the entire player base, those features don't affect enough people.

I want it to be better. There's stuff I'd love to see happen. But there's no reason to become frustrated with things well outside my control.

Frustration leads to anger
Anger leads to hate
Hate leads to suffering

Okay, I need to say this. Everyone is saying that we need to lock down what we want ranger to be, and that ranger can't be all the different types of rangers that have been mentioned. My question for everyone is, what is the difference between the ranger types mentioned? Time, place, and tools of combat, period.

The time is set. The place is set. The tools of combat can be made to reflect both the time and place.

Now lets look at what all of the ranger examples have in common.

#1 Stealth

This is not stealth against creatures, but stealth. Rangers regardless of the context are masters of blending into the backround in which they find themselves. They become invisible to and untrackable by any creature and yes man is included in this. (I would support going as far as making conceal work in a limited way in PvP maybe not invisible to radar, but untargetable by players for a period of time, but immediately attackable if they initiate combat, and please make the camo actually try and approximate the look of being camoflauged.)

#2 Terrain Negotiation

There is nowhere a ranger cannot reach in relative saftey. Rangers are reconaisance, that is what they doand they train to do it well no matter when and where they have to do it. Drop a ranger in the middle of nowhere with the clothes on their back and very limited supplies and they will not only find their way back, but they will bring with them a full report of their journey.

#3 Self Sufficence

When they have nothing they are at their best. Left alone in the wild they can survive indefinately getting everything they need from thier surrounds whether they find themselves in swamp, jungle, forest, desert, or mountain, they will survive.

#4 Warfare/Hunting

Their is not a single example of ranger that i have seen here that would not be capable of both. All have knowledge and training in weapons (something the Devs never gave rangers and i see as a major oversight). We are rangers, if we were meant to be hunters, we should be talking on the hunter forum, but we are not hunters, we are rangers. Rangers make formidable hunters in all of the examples, some are hunters whose skills transfer brilliantly to warfare, the others are warriors who's skills would transfer easily to hunting, but none of the examples are just one of these two. Currently rangers are neither hunter nor warrior, while bounty hunters are both. A ranger should not be able to defeat a bounty hunter unless the bounty hunter is caught out in the wild, and a bounty hunter should not be able to even find a ranger outside a city.

#5 Skill and strategy over brute force

The ranger works alone or in small groups even if part of a larger organization. Rangers are trained to be autonomous and therefore need to use stradegy since brute force is not available. Currently the only affective stradegy for ranger involves running away screaming like the little girls the Devs made us. We should not be able to outdamage the hybrid classes, but a smart, well supplied ranger should be on an even playing field with those classes. We should be able to fight smarter, now we can't fight at all.

Seems to me like we have been arguing over names and didn't really stop to look at the character of the names. However, I hope I'm not alone in my assesment of this issue. But to make it nice and easy I think I'll summarize a little.

A ranger is a ranger, the character is the same, but everyone seems to have trouble getting past the context.

A ranger is an unseen enemy. You won't know they are there until they tap you on the shoulder.

A ranger is trained to go anywhere.

A ranger needs the barest of supplies to survive indefinately in the wild.

A ranger is a fighter of all beasts, sentient included.

And last but not least,

A ranger fights smarter, not harder.

Mykel Syen

Radiant

So Delta, is this original post from NRaas and the devs, really say they are going to take away /conceal vs NPC, or that it MIGHT have that happen?

Can you please specifity, if you know, or if not, then your best interpretation of it. As you can see many rangers are posting on just that fact. Lets not get any big rurmors going for NRaas to clean up when he gets back.

Thanks bud.

well said, pharm

One thing to note is that if you read the description of /conceal, it says for both creatures AND npcs. Enough convincing arguments have been said but they DID "intend" for it to work on npcs or they were covering up a bug.

Now I know that what it says in the descriptions is one thing and what we actually get is another but it's obvious to me that they simply changed their minds. If they wanted us to be the "Ultimate Creature Hunter" then we should be called the Creature Hunter Profession and not Ranger. Now I don't know really what they have in store for us so I'll keep my prof for now. Who knows, maybe I'll like what they do, but initially this is not making anyone happy. I sure hope they can deliver.

/sign......(/conceal vs. npcs)

Thanks Delta. I think I will start an official, "Logic Behind Keeping /conceal working against NPC" Thread.

well i cant express how gladi am the holo told me to master ranger not only is mastering scout b0ring ( trapping and camping, the rest is piss-easy ) but it reems ranger it just a scout with bigger camps!! yay /o/

Oh ya, and for the "nice easy thread" all he has to do is go to Advanced Search and type this in:

"State of the Profession"

I don't think it gets easier then that . Pick the most recent and go. Nraas worked his butt off making our incohernt babblings make sense in there, TH might as well at least read through it once.

we've already gotten one major upgrade. To the devs now Ranger is at the bottom of thier priority list until they ner/fix (nerf) other professions. Go ahead and comment on how we need to be fixed and upgraded, but its not going to do anything until the devs *feel* like doing anything. I agree with all that everyone is saying, just its not getting us anywhere anymore.