Ranger Archive
Thread: The Top 5 Bug Responses
Reading this just makes me want to not bother with Ranger anymore. I don't see any benefit in being a ranger over a scout?
Do you actually get to harvest more resources than a scout would on the same creature? If not then whats the point?
Camps are nice but well, again whats the point. I use up more resources for not much more benefit.
Conceal, well I can't see much difference between that and mask scent except for against NPC which is actually useful, so take that away and might as well not bother.
With mounts etc, any terrain negotiation skills become useless. One thing that would be nice is if when mounted rangers get an advantage over non-rangers by the fact they can push a mount harder and get more speed out of it than others can. This keeps in line with the Ultimate creature stance, surely if we are in tune with nature we can get more out of our animals.
Well I'm ranting here but its very frustrating to have one of the only remaining useful features taken away. I might as well not bother!
Beausoleil wrote:
Folks.. I am sorry.. but the Ranger can not be ALL THINGS to ALL PEOPLE. Breadth of skills will sacrifice DEPTH of skills. There is no way around it.
...snip...
I'm in somewhat agreement, but you have to also agree that for 140 skill points, we are "so-so" at many things. For all those skillpoints 2 things should occure: We should be much more stealthy then we are and we should be able to drop critters much better then we do. As it is now, you can dabble in but one or 2 trees and get the exact same effect.
If we loose the great stealth we are relicated to PvE and cannot truely bring anything to offer to the GCW and I feel that is the crying shame here.
Basically, you can ONLY master one other profession while fighter classes can master more (note the recent "maximal defense" templates). What do we gain for that sacrifice?
It is my view that Star Wars Extended Universe already has provided this path to follow. Now it's our turn to ask the devs; do youhave the courage to accept it?
I would also like to add an interesting idea to kick around...
Most Antarian Rangers were weak FS that had trouble with the instructions of the JK's acadamy and went into this alternate service. To reflect this, and the fact that we are "in tune" with nature and by extrapilation, "the Force". In the presence of a Jedi he should be able to assist us in some way. First I would like to direct you to this site for my basis on this.
My proposal is to allow an extention to the skill set above Ranger, one to light side and one to dark side. The Antarian Ranger class itself would be the light side and there maybe a dark ranger class if balance is required, there are after all dark jedi paths in the skill trees. If someone could research that (what would they be called?) it would be helpful.
You would have to be Master Ranger to gain access. Skill point cost should probably be 0 or very low so as not to ruin combat ability. Experiance would be from combat and from feats performed that are activated only where strong Force power is near or in the presence of a Jedi (hense, very difficult in advancement). As per the description at the site I mentioned Jedi teamed with AR's can enhance AR's in ways no other class are effected. They might also gain protections from Dark Jedi that none other would have. The converse would apply to the "yet unnamed" dark version.
Since we already had our Vision, what exactly are we supposed to propose? Seriously? Yes more could be added to it (and there are a ton of awesome ideas), but we had a solid foundation. Why throw it away? Especially when many of our ideas mean nothing without that foundation.
The only thing left is for us to start asking for things that don't fit our concept of Ranger. Maybe we should start by asking what they want the name of this new profession to be?
As for the choice between fixing Ranger or adding Player Cities, Mounts and Vehicles? They should have fixed ALL the classes first, then worried about those. They are awesome, don't get me wrong, but since those professions were in first, they should have been fixed first. The lack of balance and working professions has already caused tons of problems, and now we will have to wait for another six months for them to balance the total revamp of the system. The problem is, there are still a ton of bugs that when fixed, might throw balance out of whack yet again.
I know they are overworked, but it is horribly sloppy programming to ignore existing bugs for the sake of adding more to the system. All it does is introduce yet more bugs, which compound issues, frustrate players even more, and delays the time it takes to get to a truly stable enviroment. Fix the small system, add the next, fix it, and so on. It is also much easier to debug and balance one system then two that might very well be interfering with one another.
So I will say it again. We have an existing Vision. Stick with it, make it work then worry about adding nifty new things to expand on the Vision. Swapping a blind guy for one in the dark doesn't let you see any better.
Klif_Hangar wrote:
First, I’d like to thanks NRaas and the Devs for their hard work in getting this list put together and back to us. For the most part, I like what I see. Now, some comments:
- I’m fine with being the Ultimate Creature Hunter, although if this is the case I don’t understand why the devs have not given us the ability to use traps on Creature Handler Pets.
- I am quite disappointed by the fact that conceal is not meant to work on npc’s. To me, this was the main advantage of the skill that made it worth the cost of resources. As far as I can tell, there were 4 perceived advantages to conceal over maskscent: the ability to hide from npc’s as well as creatures, a slightly higher chance of not being detected by a creature when they check against it, the fact that conceal lasted longer, and the ability to conceal others.
- I don’t use conceal on others very often since I chose ranger in order to play as a self-sufficient character and I don’t group very often (and when I do group, it is with other rangers in my guild).
- The chance of not being detected is not really that much higher than maskscent’s chance.
- The longer duration is not really very significant, as it is not too difficult to reapply maskscent at any time when it is safe by quickly unmasking/masking again (I in fact have a macro set up to do this).
In short, without the advantage of hiding us from npc’s, conceal just isn’t worth the cost of hunting for resources and crafting the camo kits required to use it. If this is the way it is going to be, then I would like more emphasis placed on the wishlist item in the Ranger State of the Profession to allow Rangers to conceal ourselves without the need for a camo kit. I might even go so far as to request that conceal’s requirement of camo kits be removed altogether.
I feel that without the npc-hiding ability, conceal is inferior to maskscent. The requirements of gathering resources and crafting camo kits are too high in relation to the small remaining advantages to make it a superior skill.
Ok, now that I’m done with that (I got a little long-winded I think
Thanks for reading, and happy hunting.), I’ll close by saying that these are my only concerns with the responses, and I look forward to seeing more improvements made to the Ranger profession in the future.
I agree wholeheartedly with this
Come on stand up for us and keep conceal working against npcs !!!
Rancor,
Again, read what I said.
1.) The Devs have their own priorities- us telling them what their priorities SHOULD be is not constructive. They make the decisions. They ask for our input. We give it to them. They get to it. But we are not doing this in a vacuum. There are three dozen other professions and issues that need attention too. We can't expect them to drop everything and fix out camp repelling issues.
2.) Bugs will get fixed, because they have been getting fixed - the camp repelling bug is annoying, yes. But it's not game breaking. We've dealt with it since July. I don't complain about it anymore. It's just a fact of life. I've been begging to get the Imperial Cap bug fixed since July, too. But that's also small potatoes next to fixing vendor poofing, and other game stopping bugs. Do you remember how quickly they got to the harvesting bug back in September? THREE DAYS. That's an amazingly fast amount of time, especially when Thunderheart wasn't even hired at that point. So don't act as if they're not doing anything for us.
3.) We need to BE PATIENT - None of these things can be done overnight. They take time, and we have to wait in line with the other professions. We are NOT THAT BROKEN. 90% of our skills work.
I started posting in this thread because I saw a lot of unfair criticism of both N'Raas and the Developers. They don't deserve. They're working hard to make the game into what WE want it to be. All I am asking is that you guys enjoy what we have now, and work with them for improvements. If you've already said what you need to say, that's fine. Be confident that it's been seen and will be referred.
But when I see things like "Our top 5 was wasted", and "what the hell are they thinking", it makes me wonder if some of you are paying attention at all.
B
Delta,
I'd love to be patient, and so would most people. I want the Ranger profession to be greater than it is now, and there are tons of ideas out there to make it so.
I'll complain and fuss all day about devs because they are the answer and the problem. They alone can do what it takes to really change things. And unless it is a game altering bug then any change only comes by the group that is most vocal. That's unfortunate, but true.
Player Cities, Mounts, and Vehicles have all been added. Now is the time for the devs to sit and make some of these changes and fixes. But instead they've decided to start a new project, which is this combat rework stuff TH has been mentioning all of the time.
I'd rahter see them fix the existing problems and add some of these ideas before they try to re-invent the wheel.
Beausoleil wrote:
Master Ranger/Master Swordsman is a VERY doable combo. No reason they can't work extremely well together.
unfortunately I am also 1-1-3-2 rifleman and kinda want to keep my xp I spent on rifles
Thunderheart wrote:
StealthNuck wrote:
Zing!
As a previous poster said, we actually have yet to be shown a path. Where is it?
Help define it so I NRaas can bring me the best of your ideas. Thats all I ask and I will get it dev attention.
TH and Delta,
Please explain to me what we the rangers, and NRass our correspondant, have been doing since release? What is wrong with NRass's current list of ideas and suggestions? Sure not all of them are feasible, not all of them will work with the game, but there is a pile of great ideas in that list all of which would help our class tremendously.
Do they get commented on? Do they get any form of attention? Nope, we get a reply to 5 bugs, 2 of which are ignored, 2 of which get a 'we are working on it' and one gets us nerfed. Is what we are doing whining? Perhaps, but for me the system has lost credibility. Before asking or telling us to be constructive or provide the path, why dont you review the excellent list NRass has created, comment on that so that we atleast have a starting point. Without any form of feedback on the existing list, we are doing what we have always done, throwing ideas to the wind.
Cul
Cul,
I explained this in another thread. There was a bit of miscommunication, and TH picked up the Top 5 bugs that the Rangers wanted fixed, and didn't forward on the Top 5 design changes. N'Raas is working with TH to get this cleared up.
In the meantime, I was asking for everyone's patience, and a recognition that our issues are being seen and will be addressed. GreenMarine commented on N'Raas's Top 5 design change list and thought it was great work. So I can assure you that the Devs have seen it and they know what we want.
Again, that being said - everyone here needs to lower their expectations on the time frame for getting some of these things done. I know, I know - we've been waiting almost 5 months for some of this stuff. I'm getting antsy too. But that doesn't mean we should let this thread degenerate into complaints about the Devs and their priorities. That doesn't help us.
That's all. I'm not trying to be an apologist for the Devs. I'm trying to manage your expectations until N'Raas gets back. Then he gets to do it.
Phenix,
I've read all your stuff, and I like it. I'm not saying that the Ranger boards in general are whiny. There were two threads, this one and "We need a new top 5", with a number of poststhat I found particularly offensive, primarily because some people were attacking the Devs and N'Raas, andI don't like that. Like I have said before, N'Raas is the best Correspondent in the game, in my opinion (and that includes me), and we are priveleged to have him here. And the Devs are doing the best that they can, managing limited resources.
I just keep being stunned by the lack of patience that many people display here. Maybe it's just that I've been around here for so long, but the level of communication we get is 10000% better than it was in July and August. Even getting one sentence answers on our issues is a plus. Holocron's post that's still stickied to the top of the forum was made in August, and I believe that was one of the first non-generic Dev post in this forum. And the game launched in June.
Things are getting better guys, not worse. And even if you don't like the answers here, reverting to behavior I would expect on the CH boards isn't going to help us. I know 75% of you didn't do this, but it's that other 25% that I want to read this and think about changing their attitudes.
B
EDIT - added comments to Phenix's post.
Message Edited by DeltaXi65 on 12-29-2003 10:13 AM
Delta and NRaas.
I see a lot of the "complaints" here are focused on two things. One being the lack of real resonses from the Devs, even though the Thread is titled Responses. Oh well I"m not commenting on this.
The second issue the players here seem to be upset and annoyed about is the fact that they asked us for what we think Rangers should be. I have to agree, if they bothered to read the pages and pages of posts that are conveniently sticky at the top, they would see the EXACT answer to that quetion. We have done so over and over again, with both NRaas awesome and way to much time put into it, TOP 5 posts, and all the responses we put into them. All of which talk about bugs, or new ideas and things that the Ranger would like to see in this profession. Thus what we see as our profession being.
Maybe it was a mistyping on their part of what they meant to say. But with a great coorsepondant like NRaas and TH both, I think they should have been pointed to all the sticky posts on Ranger forum. There is a literal volume of information from the players there. And they don't need to go searching for it. So maybe the devs should have said, "we will sift through the posts we see here and NRaas's Top 5, to get an idea of what the Rangers are looking for." Sounds much better huh?
Squid,
I know.
TH just wants everything in an easy thread, so he can pop over and read them all.
He's done this to all of us too. I think I've postedmy Top 5 in about5 threads now for him to read to make it easier.
I'm sorry guys - we're trying here. We're doing the best job that we can. Hopefully, down the road, it will have been worth it.
B