Ranger Archive
Thread: Conceal V2.0
NRaas wrote:
"Would Faction detectors / Covert detectors be defeated by /conceal?"
Hmmm...
Anyone want to comment on this one?
A covert faction detector fails the reality check anyhow, so why should conceal fool it? It obviously has some way to read your mind. Unless everyone is implanted with a super-secret X-Files neck implant which gives away their faction.
NRaas wrote:
"Ranger isn't a combat class. Yes it's a combat support class, but you still need external combat skills."
Ranger is a support skill set. Most of the items included in the skill set are meant to support a weapon skill set that the player chooses.
/ambush fits that bill, by being useless on its own. But powerful when combined with a weapon profession.
What other skills do we have that are useless on their own and HAVE to be combined with a combat profession? /maskscent and /conceal are meant to avoid combat. Camps are meant as a safe haven and to heal/rest. Some traps are meant to avoid combat (aggroed? throw a snare trap and burst run out of there), and some are meant to assist in combat (a scout/ranger can ride along with a combat group to assist with traps and then harvest,BUT the scout/ranger does NOT need to be combatant himself). None of these skills rely on the user having combat skills.
The ambush/firststrike ability is directly related to initiating combat. See my point?
shotoyan wrote:
NRaas wrote:
"Ranger isn't a combat class. Yes it's a combat support class, but you still need external combat skills."
Ranger is a support skill set. Most of the items included in the skill set are meant to support a weapon skill set that the player chooses.
/ambush fits that bill, by being useless on its own. But powerful when combined with a weapon profession.
What other skills do we have that are useless on their own and HAVE to be combined with a combat profession? /maskscent and /conceal are meant to avoid combat. Camps are meant as a safe haven and to heal/rest. Some traps are meant to avoid combat (aggroed? throw a snare trap and burst run out of there), and some are meant to assist in combat (a scout/ranger can ride along with a combat group to assist with traps and then harvest,BUT the scout/ranger does NOT need to be combatant himself). None of these skills rely on the user having combat skills.
The ambush/firststrike ability is directly related to initiating combat. See my point?
You have a good point, but I still think the skill makes sense. But maybe a balancing skill needs to be added for non-combat rangers? I don't know.
So I was thinking about the argument that a ranger shouldn't have a special attack because it's not necessarily a combat profession, but I think we've got a couple of pretty convincing argument as to why it somewhat is. Then last night I thought about Squad Leaders. A Squad Leader is not necessarily a combat profession, like the Ranger, but I think it's obvious that the SL is clearly combat-oriented. You need combat xp to get it, first off. I'm not 100% sure, but I think you can't get any SL xp if you don't participate in a fight (I think it's a multiple of your combat xp).
Yeah, I realize I've completely derailed this thread, and this has nothing to do with conceal, but....
"Animal hunting conceal - Keep animal conceal the way it is"
Might as well use /maskscent in that department, everyone else does. 
"(if Ranger, dot = no)"
Hacker comes along... "(if Ranger, dot = no yes)".
Forefficiency sakes, the coordinates for the radar and displayingon the main window are probably the same packet. So it would have to be a client side item that disables the radar. And with that opens the possibility of someone re-enabling it.
"A Squad Leader is not necessarily a combat profession, like the Ranger, but I think it's obvious that the SL is clearly combat-oriented. You need combat xp to get it"
And from what I hear, they detest the marksman requirement...
- Itpretty much restrictsthem to Ranged weapons professions, unless someone wants to waste their skill points picking up Ranged Support and then turn around and go Melee.
A Squad Leader is not necessarily a combat profession, like the Ranger, but I think it's obvious that the SL is clearly combat-oriented. You need combat xp to get it
And from what I hear, they detest the marksman requirement...
Itpretty much restrictsthem to Ranged weapons professions, unless someone wants to waste their skill points picking up Ranged Support and then turn around and go Melee.
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Yeah i pretty much see where they are coming from. Although SL is very much designed to go combat they should be able to choose how they want to fight.
Ranger and SL should both only require scout as to get novice as they are basically the same butrangersshould be themasters of creature hunting and the ultimate group guides, and squad leaders being the ultimate group leaders and orientated towards helping out in pvp situations.
Hope they clearly make us the hunters and group guides and SLs the order givers and commanders.
Just because a ranger is the group guide doesnt make the SL any less of the leader, you can be following the guide and still lead the group.
In terms of making rangers/Outdoorsmen more apealing to groups, we need to make sure rangers are defined as the ones who look after the group taking care of their needs (rest in camps, healing in camps, crafting, traps to help control crowds, concealingetc), the pathfinders who the group follow through tretcherous terrain, the group suport. Whilst defining SL as the Leaders of the group who make the decisions, communicating with the rangers on what they suggest the next action should be, directing the group in combat, aiding them in combat and focusing the group power.
Squad Leaders = Leaders. Make the decisions. Focus group efforts in combat situations to achieve their objectives by making sure everyone knows what they are suposed to be doing.
Rangers = Pathfinders. Guides. Making sure the group can acomplish their objectives through suport. Suport the group whilst travelling and aid them in combat.
or
Squad Leaders= Give Orders, Direct Actions
Rangers = MakeSure Those Orders Can Be AchievedBy Suporting The Group
OldOzymandius wrote:
Any sort of conceal skill in PVP is meaningless unless that dot disappears or cannot be auto targeted when it is seen. If the devs could not possibly consider this change, we might as well stop discussing the use of this skill in PVP right now.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe it has come up and shot down by the devs at least once before. NRass has asked Thunderheart to get a difinitive answer from the devs on wether or not any type of invisibility is possible, or an option for debate.
"NRass has asked Thunderheart to get a difinitive answer from the devs on wether or not any type of invisibility is possible, or an option for debate."
I have... Hope to receive an answer before next week.
* crosses fingers *
The /sneakattack sounds like the great aid we need in wayfaring and stealth warfare. It would need to be like the /aim command in the way that it is a preparation for the next shot, as a rifleman wouldnt really like it if it did health damage but a pistoleer would love it and from experience random pool shots do mostly health damage and very rarely hit mind....it could maybe have a x2 or x3 modifier on the next shot with perhaps a stun effect as you shot them and they couldnt even see you. Perhaps /sneakattack1 could be in wayfaring 2 doing x2 damage and the /sneakattack2 being at master doing x3 or even x4 with the stun effect?