Ranger Archive

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sbjnyc wrote:

I still like the idea of crafting it into a weapon though rather than have a separate delivery system such as a trap.

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Let me rephrase this. What I mean is being able to craft it into an existing weapon, as such weapons actually exist in the game. Since they exist in the game it would be much easier for them to code in an ability for us to craft them fom the existing weapon. That just makes it more practical. I don't like the idea of a bow and arrow for 2 reasons. First, it's not practical as it would require a lot of new development and would have no existing base. Second, this is star wars galaxies, not robin hood online.

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NRaas wrote:
"Second, the bow should be very slow."

"Finally, the bow should be very accurate against a stationary target and exceedingly inaccurate against a moving target."

- Sounds a lot like the Rifle profession.

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Yes and no My preference would be that arrows do very little initial damage (other than the exploding variety, which have their own disadvantages). The drug-delivery type arrows would do -no- damage other than the effect. The hunting arrow would only do bleed damage. Yes, over time this is powerful, but it is not even close to a 1500+ head shot. Additionally, I wouldn't mind if the bow had the effective range of a carbine.

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NRaas wrote:
- I'm fine with the bow being used against humanoids, if we are given the same melee penalty as Rifleman in combat. There must be some disadvantage to offset the power of the bow.

- Perhaps the bow can only be used as a first strike weapon.

- You shoot it to start the combat, and after that you must rely on another weapon to get the job done.

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I would be fine with the 2.5 damage multiplier (or whatever it becomes) for melee versus someone using a bow. As for first strike, that's actually more the way I see rifles at the moment. Certainly that would be its only possible function in PvP the way I envision it, but in hunting creatures (which is where I spend most of my time) I like the idea of being able to hunt without having to either kite or go toe-to-toe with my prey.

"My preference would be that arrows do very little initial damage"

By this, you are relegating it to an effects weapon...

Actually I'm quite happy with that, this should reduce balance issue to a minimum, and allow for use within the humanoid arena.

"As for first strike, that's actually more the way I see rifles at the moment."

If we decrease the initial damage to nil, then the weapon becomes useful only on the instigation of combat...

So don't those two quotes contradict each other?

For what it is worth:

1. I don't want a bow. I like traps and trapping. A ranger-specific firearm (or firearms - one rifle, one pistol one carbine) or ranger-specific weapon powerup or ranger-specific firearm skill would be fine, but this is not "Tuskens & Dragons." =)

2. Mask Scent and Conceal should not work on top of one another. I think the logical assumption is that you learn first to mask your scent. When you get better at camouflage, you learn to incorporate other things WITH mask scent in your attempts to hide yourself from animals. Thus masking your scent is PART of what you do when you conceal. You can either JUST mask your scent or you can mask your scent AND strap a bush to your head or whatever.You don't get to conceal yourself, then get found,THEN slather yourself in dewback poopy to keep from getting your butt kicked. That's what we call an exploitive and silly loophole. =)

3. Automated harvesting is absurd. We know that the people behind this game care deeply about keeping resource levels balanced. Have you thought about what harvesting would do to the "ecology"? In order to keep things balanced, manual harvest rates would probably have to dip to record lows - and we all saw what people were like when they tried to lower levels to keep things sane for group harvesting. Is it fair to scouts and others who took a few levels in scout just to be able to get crafting materials to lower resource levels in that way?

4. Rangers have to be good at both being a ranger AND shooting things, and that is fair and just and sensible. The argument was made that rangers are somehow getting the short end of the game stick because they have to *whine* pursue both rangering and some kind of combat and that this was somehow contrary to every other class in the game. Smugglers are in the same boat, buckos. So are others that have been mentioned in these posts. A ranger's other abilities and skills are extraordinary, and one balancing factor for the cool stuff we get to do / do better than others is that we have to learn to use a rifle well. *shrug*. How many hunters do you know who don't know how to properly use / clean / maintain their weapons?

Most of the suggestions from the list are good. I don't really understand the ones wherethere seems to be a desire to drastically change the class. I don't understand looking at a class and saying "Hey, that looks cool. Well, except for those 77 things. Those 77 things need to change, but otherwise it's GREAT = I'll play it!" I also don't understand the sort of "total instant gratification" need to make sure that you can do everything you want to do in the game at the same time. One of the MOST attractive things about this game is the skill system. It's amazingly versatile, flexible and customizable. It means that my friends and I who are not powergamers can still hang out together in-game w/o penalty. If you've played any other games (such as EQ), you realize that this is a utopian paradise of choice and individuality. That does NOT mean, though, that you get to be a jack of all trades who gets to do everything and be Darth Vader now now now now now. You HAVE to makechoices. Youhave to make sacrifices and compromises.

I dunno - Iam LOVING thisgame and loving the class so far, and while I want everything to work "properly" (e.g. as teh designers meant it to), I don't want to really change much otherwise.

~Wen

Well hell! I just spent the better part of an hour (while at work and going back and forth between this and various duties) putting together what I hoped to be a lucid, helpful, and well thought-out post only to find that I had been logged out, causing all of that work to go to waste. ARGH!!!

So let me try to remember the gist of it and sum it up:

I also don't quite like the idea of a bow because it just doesn't feel quite right to me somehow. What I would like are a handful of special attacks that could be used to target the HAM bars of creatures specifically instead of the vague "Creature To-Hit Bonus" that makes so little difference, if any, that no one knows if it is even working or not. If it isn't working now but is "In Development" and will be effective once implemented, then this is a moot point since it will be much easier for us to hit creatures. Hopefully this will also mean an increase in the damage dealt as opposed to NPCs and players since Rangers are supposed to be the masters of all things PvE, but that may end up as a later discussion.

As for /maskScent and /conceal, I also don't think they should work together or be cumulative, but that the /conceal command should automatically cause /maskScent to go away and /conceal take effect. Or maybe at the higher levels of Wayfaring /maskScent could combine with /conceal against creatures, but have no change in effect on NPCs, assuming /conceal does work against them, which I have not confirmed. This makes sense to me again because we have all of this accumulated "Creature Knowledge."

At any rate, I also want to thank NRaas for his comprehensive and nicely bulleted list of things to do!

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Wenweti wrote:

this is not "Tuskens & Dragons." =)

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Have you not been to Tatooine?

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Manae wrote:

I really wouldn't consider that 'poisen.' Sure, it says it, and does damage, but it's more or less called that to explain why it has an effect at all

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How is this different than anything else in the game? It calls itself fire damage, disease or poison but mechanically it is just a way to reflect damage to our hit points (sorry HAM bars). The only difference is that the trap is much weaker in effect, has a status affect, and has no DoT. There's no reason a Ranger should be able to do something like that. I think being able to craft it into existing weapons (swords, pistols, etc), which already exist in the game, is reasonable and quite practical.

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NRaas wrote:

"My preference would be that arrows do very little initial damage"

By this, you are relegating it to an effects weapon...

Actually I'm quite happy with that, this should reduce balance issue to a minimum, and allow for use within the humanoid arena.

"As for first strike, that's actually more the way I see rifles at the moment."

If we decrease the initial damage to nil, then the weapon becomes useful only on the instigation of combat...

So don't those two quotes contradict each other?

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Only if you are talking exclusively about PvP. The bow I envision would be at best a first strike weapon in PvP. Assuming the bow would allow us to remain hidden while hunting, the low initial damage followed by a nasty bleed could be reapplied time and again by the ranger until he brought down his target. I was envisioning a situation where given patience, skill and some luck (to remain hidden) a ranger could take down an animal with nothing more than this bleed shot. Obviously, real human opponents in PvP would scour the area as soon as the first shot hit, rather than letting the ranger get another shot off.

Thats not even a valid Argument. As a Ranger in the Star WArs Universe you are hunting animals for their meat and hides. hmmmmmmmmm. What is wrong with hunting with a Bow? didn't Jengo Fett use a dart to kill that assassin? Aren't there classes like Swordsman? Pikeman? hmmmm Bows don't seem so out of keeping with these other weapons.

I thought to be a smuggle you had to have some unarmed fighting skill?

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Smugglers are in the same boat, buckos.

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Well bucko... They have a pistol line in their profession that has specials that are impressive...

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Black-Ice-Sinaju wrote:

Thats not even a valid Argument. As a Ranger in the Star WArs Universe you are hunting animals for their meat and hides. hmmmmmmmmm. What is wrong with hunting with a Bow? didn't Jengo Fett use a dart to kill that assassin? Aren't there classes like Swordsman? Pikeman? hmmmm Bows don't seem so out of keeping with these other weapons.

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As far as hunting for hides and meats, yeah - I don't understand why that'sin SWG either. But are you proposing a vibro-bow? All weapon lines have a specialized class. Are we supposed to be archers? As far as Jango Fett's dart, give me his space ship and you can have his dart.

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I thought to be a smuggle you had to have some unarmed fighting skill?

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I don't understand that myself. Still everyone has fists and jaws.

These are great Ideas!!
I like the idea of a trophy that only a Ranger can harvest. I also think the Ranger is in bad need of some sort of weapon, how about a Ranger Canon ..

NRaas, major props to you for putting together this list. It's beautiful, great job!