Ranger Archive
Thread: The Outdoorsman
Here is my critique of this proposal:
I like the idea of adding combat modifiers into /conceal. That's the only way it will ever be worthwhile imho.
The proposals for modifying /areatrack won't help. It's still mostly a worthless skill because the basic mechanism is so faulty. I do like the idea of /track though.
The new proposed camping system is still worthless imho. Just makes camps more difficult to make and adds on a lot of stuff that you'd use "once-in-a-blue-moon".
Some of the new traps sound cool (knockdown, area tranquilizer). Not sure about trap launcher, I have a hard time picturing this.
The ground trap would be worthless. There are two kinds of CH. Those that enjoy going out into the wilderness searching for rare creatures tohave as "trophy" pets which they take pride in, and those that just want pets as weapons and go to BE's to get the most powerful ones they can get. The ground trap would serve neither type of CH.
The combat part of the proposal I still feel is too weak. 1.25x damage at master and a to-hit bonus? Not nearly enough, we'd still be very poor hunters relative to those who spend those 150 skill points or whatever on combat.
Harvesting: again, not nearly enough here. Ability to get crappy bone with our hide, or crappy hide with our meat is not that much of an advantage. The overall levels need to be raised by a very large amount, and we need to be able to take down creatures a lot lot better.
Summary:
if this were implemented we'd still have a pretty strong hunting branch, a pretty strong /conceal branch, a joke of a camping branch, and a weak trapping branch. I still feel that ranger would be grossly underpowered, although certainly improved, with this proposal.
GoldMemberBria wrote:
...snip...
The ground trap would be worthless. There are two kinds of CH. Those that enjoy going out into the wilderness searching for rare creatures tohave as "trophy" pets which they take pride in, and those that just want pets as weapons and go to BE's to get the most powerful ones they can get. The ground trap would serve neither type of CH.
...snip...
. Now we just need a correspondent so they can start bugging the devs (and provide an updated outdoorsman/state of the profession).Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
DWolfe wrote:
Uh.. I don't know about you Gold, but if/when we do get modular camps, I'll be using a LOT of these new features a lot of the time. My guild would also see the use of them. Most of these are exceptionally useful modules, though you'd have to be relatively intelligent to figure out when and how to use them.
You mean relatively intelligent to invent a use for them don't you? lol. Maybe we can request that they look like a keg and put those along side our cammo kits that look like beer cans and pretend we're at a frat party, lol.
Actually it really depends on your style of play. I have no doubt that they'd be useful to you if you claim so, but they are of no use to me. I absolutely hate hunting in big groups (nothing more mind-numbingly boring them going on a rancor hunt with dozens of people at pets and simply button-mashing), I don't pvp, I mostly solo hunt or hunt with a few select friends. So all this stuff about mine fields, faction network, and all the rest just aren't useful to me. The healing bays we already have, kinda, and I don't generally sit around in tents for hours waiting for myself and my pets to heal naturally. I either stitch myself and my pet up myself, or go to someone that can. The business about all the aggro repulsion of creatures and npc's, we're already *supposed* to have that. It says that right in the description of our existing camps. So the proposal is that we should get that ability only by doing tons of extra crafting? blech. Just fix the damn bug already!
There are actually a few items in there that I think are good ideas. Garages could be useful on occasion (once they fix the exploit), the pheromone stuff could be useful (but I'd simply prefer a mission terminaland better /areatrack), but that's about it. Not saying the other stuff is useless to everyone, but it is useless to me.
Culdor said: There is little point adding PvP functionality and then restrict it to outside cities. In a week of fairly steady PvP I have fought out of a town only once. Unless you want to gank folks running missions, there is really not much PvP outside of city centres.
While I agree with your statements, I think that your focus is a bit off. Is the feature being requested just to allow the Ranger to be more valuable in PvP, or is it being requested to give the Ranger some recognition for his skills when in wilderness envirionments? I'd rather see fitting enhancements to all theprofessions than simply useful enhancements to any of them.
DWolfe said: Thereafter,[the ghillie suit]functions as described, but only on the specific planet it is designed for.
The problem I see with this is that we've already got too many items in our inventory. And here you're suggesting that we need 10 more. I really don't care about immersion and logic when it comes to my inventory space, I just want to carry less.
DWolfe said: Hide: I like, especially with the ability to hue the ghillie suit as you desire. While it will not make your avatar invisible, the hue combined with a prone posture and possibly present vegetation will do much of the job.
Without it making your avatar invisible there's little use for this. Everone who engages in PvP would simply turn off all of the terrain graphics options, leaving you totally exposed. Wearing clothing with certain colors is great, I do it myself. But you don't need a new ghillie suit to be able to do this.
DWolfe said: Damage bonuses against critters: I think this is an either/or issue with Ambush. Either ambush, or damage bonuses. Not both.
The main problem I see is, if you take almost any other profession in hybrid with a combat profession, you gain some advantage in combat. Ranger is a whole profession that relies on PvCreature combat, assists in PvCreature combat, and yet it doesn't provide any actual advantage to your ability to kill them. If I'm a master Fencer/Scout/Medic or master Fencer/Scout/Brawler I have more of an advantage in combat with creatures than a master Fencer/Scout/Ranger. That's just not right.
Klif_Hanger said: Basically, what I would like is the ability to pack up a deployed camp and the ability to redeploy it at a later time.
What I don't like about this idea is that it takes away some of the challenge. Rightnow, one of the only tests to being a good Ranger (in respect to camps only) is timing. If you make it so that there's no penalty to placing a camp at the wrong time then it's just too easy.
GoldMemberBria said: The new proposed camping system is still worthless imho. Just makes camps more difficult to make and adds on a lot of stuff that you'd use "once-in-a-blue-moon".
I think that the only real need for modules at all is for stuff you'd only use once in a blue moon. For instance, I'll never have a reason to make a camp that has a faction natwork interface, but I want every single camp I make to stay up during combat, repel creatures, boost healing rates, allow for battle fatigue healing, etc etc. The modules idea isn't a bad idea by any means, but I think that simplicity is definitely the best goal when it comes to camp crafting.
GoldMemberBria said: The overall levels need to be raised by a very large amount, and we need to be able to take down creatures a lot lot better.
I think this is the first thing that needs to change about the Ranger profession. I'm surprised and dissappointed thatit hasn't been changed already.
GoldMemberBria said: I don't pvp, I mostly solo hunt or hunt with a few select friends. So all this stuff about mine fields, faction network, and all the rest just aren't useful to me. ....So the proposal is that we should get that ability only by doing tons of extra crafting? blech. Just fix the damn bug already!
Mine fields, turrets, etc really shouldn't be in camps at all, in my opinion. PvP combat, and even PvE faction combat should rely on players only, not camps. Camps should be used as a refuge, the place you go when you aren't in combat - they should not just be another weaponwith whichyou use to kill something.
Yes, I agree, I don't want to have to get the features that camps should already have by doing extra crafting. Extra crafting never adds fun to a profession that's based on combat. The modular camp system here not only nerfs current camps (as they pathetically are) but it requires us to carry multiple modules just to be prepared, and it requires us to make most of our camps in the field. I want to be able to make my camps in a factory and carry 1 (one, JUST ONE) factory crate. I tell you, this modular system is an absolute nightmare to me.
NRaas,
So, after reading through these other posts I realized you've already sent this to TH. I guess I still don't understand why. You could have made a couple of documents detailing possible detailed proposals for specific elements and linked to them from the SotP document, making that the proposal instead.
Regardless of any of that, I hope something's done soon. I haven't played my ranger in a long time because it's just too frustrating to know that I have this whole profession and the only think I can make use of is 30% more harvesting.
For players, the tracking ability would end at the boundary of civilization, displaying a waypoint only to the city itself, rather than a specific location of the target.
If the target player is concealed, tracking would be based on a comparison of the target's camoflauge skill versus the tracker's tracking skill
"For players" sounds like you mean "For players using this skill" when it looks like you might mean, "When using /track to find players".
- Crafting Stations
- Faction Network (with a built-in covert detector)
- Humanoid Defensive Barrier
Each Ranger-level camp should be able to accept any of these, with better camps having more module slots and an increased module affectiveness modifier. In addition, these qualities should be inherant in all Ranger camps:
- The ability to logout safely and immediately
- A healing modifier that maxes out at 1.3 in the Master Ranger-level camp
- The ability to heal battle fatigue via entertainment
- Causes creatures to choose to stay away from the camp, with larger camps having a greater range and a greater chance to keep creatures away
- The camp supresses new creature and humanoid spawns in the area
- Engaging in combat does not cause a tender's camp to disband
- Vehicles in the camp do not lose hit points just by being out
- Pets regain HAM more quickly, depending on the healing modifier of the camp.
Bihlbo wrote:
I've waited this long to read and respond to this proposal for one (admittedly silly) reason: I hate the name.
Ihave a hard time accepting that from someonenamed after a hobbit....
Yeah, actually my name doesn't have anything to do with Mr. Baggins. It's unfortunate that they're so similar.
See, I thought I had read somewhere that NRaas said he wanted to change the name of the profession, back when he first started working on this. Add to that the fact that the proposal doesn't state otherwise, and changes the word "Ranger" to "Outdoorsman" in the first half of the proposal; it's easy to assume he's trying to change the name of the profession.
That was a bad assumption on my part, so I apologize for that. But I'd be surprised if I wasn't the only person who got that impression.
I Entierly Support this, As does Every ranger i Imagine 
Only Thing i Slightly disagree with is Limiting Alot of the Abilities to the "Wilderness"....I reality this is a Wonderfull concept, However in the game this *Could* do more damage to the proffession then good. As Culdor said on page 2(nearly 3 months ago) In the game the Break between city and Wilderness is Much less then perfect...It isn't like you go in the city gates and Boom you in the city...Some city limits extend thousands of meters out and others Are only 15 meters out. Also there is the distinction of what cities are "Wilderness based" cities, Like monea for example....Very outdoorsish.
To Further Expand on this,the majorityof PvP encounters occur withinone City zone or another....There is Very little "Middle of no Where" PvP Clashes. Also Having the Rangers Wilderness PvP Abilities Bosted so much over our Rural abilities would Lead to a trend that is experienced in DAOC....no onefights out in the middle of no where, they don't want to be "ranger bait".....so they avoid us entierly. If they were forced to deal with us Even in the city to even just a lesser extent Then they would just adapt and not change their normal gameplay
Also i feel traps should have some limited effects in PvP vs players.....Perhaps "Half duration" effects?
Even without the changes i would like to see in the proposal....As it is...
The Outdoorsman ROCKS!
Personally I always envisioned the Ranger as the ultimate outdoorsman. Hat's off to you for your work on that nice piece of writing. I love the ideas and think that they all have great merit. Though I disagree in part with some of them, as a whole I find them to be incredible and well thought out. I loved Ranger when I mastered it, but have since dropped it in pursuit of money to live by as a Doctor/Swordsman. With full functionality the Ranger would be an indespensible part of the SWG community, as compared to the semi-might be-useful profession that it is right now (and even less useful without a need for camps to call stuff).
I hope against hope that the Devs please look at this, read, and understand that many of us love this profession and want it to be something worth having other than an aesthetically pleasing campsite builder.