Ranger Archive
Thread: The Top 5 Bug Responses
astralzebra wrote:
- These problems will be looked into and fixed up as soon as possible.
*Will* be looked into. That's not promising. Sounds like Ranger is indeed on the bottom of the barrel with Pikeman.
As for camo, what good is it without humanoid repellant power? Any intermediate scout can scent mask. In theory, camo is supposed to be better and not break as often-- but in game, I don't see a huge difference between the two methods. Concealing from humanoids would give it an edge, and give groups another reason to travel with a Ranger.
A whole lot of skill points to invest in something so limited. Big shiny camps (with problems), better traps (with problems), and areatrack (with problems)-- taking up all these skill points? I'm really not sure it's worth it.
Az, I actually disagree with you. In-game I *do* see a big difference between mask scent and cammo. Cammo works much worse and breaks more frequently
Let's see, cammo works worse, I have vehicles and mounts that are much faster than me. Remind me why I have that line of rangering again? Oh yea, I'm an idiot.
I like the idea of Rangers being the Ultimate Creature Hunters. That is what I do 70% of my in-game time. It's why I chose Ranger.
I don't care for the idea behind /conceal not working against NPC's. If the ability is to be defined by it's description then we should be able to conceal our location to anyone or thing in the wilderness. I understand this ability not functioning against PC's due to griefing issues, but all other wilderness dwellers should be affected. Melee Rangers need the 'to hit' bonus that ranged Rangers receive.
Greater creature combat abilties, I believe, could come in a functioning trapping line. I like the positioned traps that have been submitted (lines, bait, lures). More AE traps at the Ranger level with de-buffs would also be very helpful. Ranger traps must start working against high level creatures as the Scout line'sdo against low level ones.
Camps, at the Ranger level, need more functionality. I like the limited clone center idea, but I understand it's drawbacks. Crafting stations are rarely used. More permanent structures that would allow the Ranger to leave, hunt and return would also be helpful. Repelling aggresive creatures is desperately needed.
I am still eagerly awaiting the more functional /track command as I think this would be the greatest improvement to our tracking line.
In the end, I'm a Ranger. It's in my sig, in my bio, on my houses and everything I do. I am confident that the devs will see the vision the community has for us being Master's of the Wilderness and respond accordingly. I also have faith in our correspondent presenting our ideas and fighting for them.
You need examples of a star wars ranger?
Here, i posted this before but you guys never read what we post so here ya go again TH.
676th Light Support Scouts
this Imperial unit was best known as a holding tank for murderers, thieves, cowards, and the less intelligent and undisciplined members of the Imperial infantry. It was said that the 676th were "the first to arrive, and the first to die."
Blizzard Force
a division of Imperial Cold Assault stormtroopers, they are trained to work in tandem with AT-AT assault vehicles. Blizzard Force was dispatched to Hoth to rout the Alliance base there during the Galactic Civil War.
D812
this Alliance scouting and reconnaissance team was led by Mils Gessak, and searched for forward outposts during the Galactic Civil War
Delta Team
this Alliance Special Forces unit was named for Scandium Team's Delta Unit.
Guile Company
this New Republic infiltration force was developed by Major Showolter. He hoped to recruit Clawdites and other polymorphic species to join the Guile Company team, in an effort to infiltrate Yuuzhan Vong units.
Imperial Storm Commandos
this elite group of stormtroopers was chosen from various categories and put together as a commando group. Their primary mission was to eradicate Alliance opposition with little or no support, in hard to reach areas. Crix Madine was placed in command of the first unit of Storm Commandos by Grand Moff Tanniel, shortly after the Battle of Yavin
Infiltrators
one of the most elite sections of the Alliance's Special Forces division, Infiltrators used stealth and cunning to get into Imperial installations prior to an actual assault. They gathered intelligence and "softened up" any Imperial resistance, before the main ground force attacked. They were considered the 5th Regiment of the SpecForces of the Alliance.
Infiltrators
this group of Alliance special forces operatives was sent in to infiltrate heavily-guarded areas before the main assault force could advance. They assisted in bringing down perimeter defense and allowed the main force an easier access to a target. The Infiltrators were disbanded shortly after the Battle of Endor. Many members of the Infiltrators took positions with Red Team Five.
Katarn Commandos
the crack squadron of guerilla warriors who were teamed with the former mercenary Kyle Katarn during the early days of the Galactic Civil War. When Katarn retired from active duty, Page rose from the ranks to become the leader of the group. Their name changed to Page's Commandos, but their expertise didn't change. Their insignia was formed from the seal of the New Republic, with a stylized katarn beast leaping across and in front of it.
NightWhispers
this was the name used by one of the Empire's most elite stormtrooper units. A unit of the Storm Commandos, they were sent into the field whenever incredible stealth was required to gain access to an enemy target.
Nishr Taskforce
this Alliance Special Forces unit was made up of a pair of Wilderness Fighter platoons and a Pathfinder platoon. They were the first group to scout the planet Nishr, which eventually became their home base. A SpecOps mission group and an Intelligence agent were attached to the taskforce for unusual support. The taskforce was under the command of Fisk Csino during the Galactic Civil War. Their mission was defined after the original scouting party discovered the large Imperial presence on the planet. Their commanding officers deemed it important for them to remain on Nishr and harass the Imperial garrison, in an effort to draw reinforcement to the planet from other worlds. This would have allowed the Alliance to promote other actions during a lull in Imperial forces elsewhere. The mission was poorly planned, but forged moderate success over the years.
Red Team Five
one of the New Republic's best-kept secrets, Red Team Five was a group of highly-skilled Special Forces infiltration experts. They were sent in to scout out a target location and eliminate any perimeter defenses prior to a full-scale operation. Many of the group's agents were former members of the Alliance's Infiltrator team, including Jai Raventhorn. All but Raventhorn were killed in a raid on the Imperial garrison on Zelos II, shortly after the Battle of Endor. Raventhorn was imprisoned at the garrison and brutally interrogated before being rescued by Platt Okeefe and Tru'eb Cholakk.
Republic Special Tactics Force
this elite military unit was part of the Old Republic's armed forces, and was the precursor of the Special Forces units of both the Alliance and the Empire.
Special Bakuran Troops
this branch of the Bakuran armed forces was trained for special operations.
Storm Commandos
this was a group of Imperial soldiers trained to speciallize in guerilla warfare. They were generally referred to as Shadowtroopers, and were initially trained by Crix Madine. Despite the fact that Madine himself defected to the Alliance, the Empire maintained the Storm Commandos because of the niche they filled in the overall Imperial war machine. Storm Commandos were distinguished by their black armor, which was modeled after that of a standard scout trooper. Up to forty Storm Commandos worked as a single unit, divided into four groups per team: standard commandos; assault troops trained for vehicle combat and artillery; soldiers who were experts at sabotage, demolitions and stealth; and a tech team devoted to keeping gear functioning or jury-rigging makeshift supplies.
Task Force Shen
this top-secret Alliance Special Forces unit was called upon to execute elite, silent missions throughout the Mid Rim during the Galactic Civil War. The unit was made up of two Infiltrator platoons, a Pathfinder platoon, and two squads of technicians. It was led by Major Mart Stevez, and was often "loaned" to the Alliance's Intelligence division in order to acquire sensitive data.
Team Razor
this was an Alliance Special Forces Pathfinder unit, best known for setting up Outpost Cinder during the Galactic Civil War.
Trianii Rangers
an elite army of Trianii which is a highly-skilled legion of law enforcement officials. They are excellent marksmen, and can move with incredible stealth
and last but not least for your request of star wars examples of rangers and the one that most closely resembles our profession's skills............
FOCUS ON THIS LAST PARAGRAPH!
Antarian Rangers
a para-military group based on several planets, the Antarian Rangers were formed by Marus Timpel and Kaskutal on Antar 4, some 600 years before the Battle of Yavin. The mission of the Antarian Rangers was simply to assist and aid the Jedi Knights in any way possible, although they were most often employed as front-line troops in battlezones. They were trained to be masters of any environment, in order to meet the various challenges assigned to them. The Jedi Council refused to comment on their position toward the Antarian Rangers, although they allowed it to continute to grow and expand over the years. Many individual Jedi valued their assistance and dedication, especially in situations where military force was needed. In the coming centuries, as the Jedi Order became more conservative and insular, they began to turn away from the use of separate organizations like the Antarian Rangers. This meant that the amount of work available to the Rangers began to diminish, and the organization was forced to drastically reduce its manpower. During the Clone Wars, the Antarian Rangers were able to briefly expand their efforts in support of the Jedi involvement in the war. Unfortunately, whole groups of Antarian Rangers were killed off, and many of the survivors scattered and went underground. Those that remained loyal to the Jedi found themselves hunted down as part of Emperor Palpatine's Jedi Purge, further reducing the organization's size and scope. Only a few groups managed to survive the Galactic Civil War, but they were openly sought out by Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. In the years following the Battle of Endor, the organization grew slowly, but proved to be invaluable during the formation and protection of the Great River during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion of the galaxy
These are all examples of the rangers of star wars in the novels and movies, i'm sure you'll see a bit of the antarian rangers in episode III.
So what makes a star wars ranger a star wars ranger?
1. Stealth
2. Ingenuity
3. Tactics
4. Having the tools to get the job done
Ranger currently is missing all these things.
Traps are the unique answer for the ranger in PVP and in PVE.
Military traps, mines, booby traps, log traps etc,..., think RoTj read about the antarian rangers, this is the sort of warfare rangers use.
The land itself is a rangers weapon, he riddles it with traps, early warning devices etc,,,, i he study the tracks in an area and is almost impossible to surprise, He almost will always be able to strike an enemy first and use the land itself to make his escape easier, he is a guerilla fighter like no other.
Of course rangers can deal with the local flora and fauna well, those are part of the environment, he should have high amounts of knowledge regarding these things.
Camps iin the ranger line do nothing right now, perhaps if faction camps with defenses and faction terminals etc... could be added so a ranger could setup a forward base of operations would spice up the profession a bit. Tracking needs to be refined to be able to see faction when listing players on a search(should only apply if the ranger is overt). Player and NPC traps, more traps of every kind, traps are the rangers weapons.
Get in this mode of thinking and you will win mine and every ranger's heart a 1000 times over and ranger will be worth 140 skill points and be worth something more than just a roleplayer's profession.
Guys,
The pointless whining in this thread is exactly that...
Pointless.
Here's what N'Raas needs, and here is what Thunderheart needs:
People need to start outlining their visions for what they want Rangers to be. Come up with coherent, intelligent responses and ideas. Back the ideas up with whatever you can - extended universe information, logic, etc. and keep in mind that they cannot be unbalancing with other professions (i.e., giving Rangers skills that impinge upon another professions territory, i.e. healing). Post them here, and let's DISCUSS them.
Complaining about the Devs, whining about not liking the issues or the responses here, etc. are completely unproductive. They may feel good when you get them off your chest, but they don't go a single inch forward in getting this profession to where it needs to be.
You've got the best Correspondent in the game in N'Raas - and that's saying a lot, because I have a big ego. Give him the support he needs, and help us get our profession where it needs to be. Don't look back - start looking forward.
B
Our vision? how about George Lucas's vision? isnt this game supposed to follow continuity? I swear i remember the devs say they would strive for it. OK well there are several examples listed of a star wars ranger, sorry they arent all aragornish tree hugging types but thats a star wars ranger and not a fantasy one.
There is already a good base with ranger as is.
Expand on it, make it reflect what a ranger in star wars is and can do. NO more taking away, if anything the abilities should make the hunters and the military types happy if they make us resemble the Antarian Ranger more. Yes its just a game, but its a STAR WARS game and it should reflect star wars counterparts and be star warsy not FIELD & STREAM.
I am quite sure SOE/Lucas Arts are quite capable of doing their own research, i suggest they do it.
Whining?I hate that word, its often thrown about by people who disagree with your opinion just to make your points less valid. In fact in my opinion you belittling the player's feelings and responses here by calling them whiners is unprofessional and very WHINEY. If the shoe fits wear it.
One star me all you like, bothers me not, i've had MANY 5 star posts in the ranger forums over the last 6 months. I'm not a newcomer here. I have more spine than most posters here do, it doesnt bother me to be the unpopular man, not like i am though as we all know most readers here do not rate posts, i checked my one stars are by a single person, not several.
Anyway, its STAR WARS, make us STAR WARS RANGERS and folks here will be happy. This company needs to do their OWN job, we've said this many times and they havent bothered, they keep heading into this FIELD & STREAM vision of ranger and not the STAR WARS vision of ranger they should be following.
Guys,
First of all, this game is as much ours as it is the Devs. It's not that we're doing their work for them - it's that they want us to actually ENJOY playing the game. They want us to get our money's worth, and they recognize that they do not have a monopoly on good ideas. So they ask us for our help.
When I say "whining", I'm talking about attacking the Developers, claims that they never do anything, that we're doing all the work, yada yada yada. That's not constructive. It makes you feel better, but what has that accomplished? Nothing. No one is going to listen to that, and getting your fellow players all rowdy isn't going to get them to listen to that either.
Smart, well thoughtout, constructive posts do.
And if it's already been said - either say it again, or wait longer. 
Seiryuu,
You've been here longer, or as long, as anyone else. You know full well that we are light years ahead of where we were in July. And not only that, but the Devs have been working full speed on getting mounts and vehicles out. They haven't had time to pay attention to the professions. There just aren't enough of them, and there aren't enough hours in the day. And its not just a question of hiring more people, etc. It's a question of priorities.
If you asked the entire player base what they'd rather have - vehicles, mounts and player cities or a Ranger profession that's fully implemented, guess what they'll say? So we need to wait in line. Heck, there are four professions off the top of my head that are in seriously worse shape then we are - Chef, Squad Leader, Droid Engineer and Smuggler. We had a bunch of stuff already added for us, and we know that more is on the way.
PATIENCE.
B
Seiryuu pretty much wrapped it up. We have given them many many good good suggestions, even ones that go along the lines of this Ultimate Creature Hunters. Leave what is in our profession there, do not remove anything, period. It's a fantastic start.
My vision of the Ranger profession. To be the ultimate creature hunter, outdoors stealth master, great support position, and some PvP/GCW additions. This last part does not need to be some huge part of us, that makes us real powerful in PvP, and nothing say the BH or Commando has. But there are a few things that weshould be able to add to PvP. Like Traps for PC, and oh I don't know Able to trap and greatly effect CH pets. As stated before we do not need to get xp for trapping pets. Make it only pets belonging to a player that is Overt, of the opposite faction. To greatly effect the pets, I'm referring to say some great damage and to hit bonuses that we have been asking for a long time now. CH pets have a lot of HP, and that is going to get even bigger with the changes. So let us be the ones that can take them down fast. Like the commando and the ATST.
Outdoors stealth master is along the lines of Mask scent and /conceal. These are great as they are, with both mask scent and conceal. I still think that our conceal should give us some small advantage in PvP. This would give us one more addition to PvP/GCW. All that needs to be done is make the same camo kits work like this. If you are Overt, it will make your dot on the radar appear to be blue to Overts of the same faction. You also don't have the floating faction symbol next to your name. Now, once you attack ANYTHING the camo kit will no longer have that specific effect against Overts of the same faction. It will still be on and functioning as normal against NPC and creatures though.
This is a small, yet effective part of making us more useful in many ways. We should not have a huge part of us that is PvP/GCW worthwhile, but we should have some. The logic? Look at all the above example of SW Rangers. Nuff said. Non of it is the outdoorsman, creature hunter.
We need more traps in ranger, that actually effect large creatures. I posted recently that even if they gave us some of the scout same scout traps, but quadrooble the effect, so they are actually worth it. And give us at least one that is useful against NPC/PC. The logic? We are hunters, and we are humanoid, so we will know the weaknesses of humanoids, and the above examples of SW rangers. And we need a trap or something that allows us to effectively attack Socialble creatures. meaning to be able to pull out one creature to attack form a pack of social creatures, so we, and our group, dont get attacked by multiples of them.
We need to have some good defences against creatures. They already have it in the code to seperate creatures, because of our traps and creature to hit bonus. So make us have some defencive bonuses, like some vs stun and posture change. Again, we are outdoors all the time, staying in shape, working endurance, and good balance, and knowing how animals move and attack. We already know how much damage they are and how accurate they are, because its in the Examine info. So this makes sence that we should be able to avoid those attacks better. Any defences put here should stack with similar defences from other professions.
They implemented a new feature for rifleman, that if they are undercover, and at least 50m away, and using sniper shots, they can attack a single creature of social group. Without agroing all of them. This is good and appropriate. But the Ranger should have this as well, and probably more effective. What if this hunting blind we keep talking about does that. If we use a blind, and attack social creatures, we dont pull more then just the one. If there is a chance of it happening, thats fine. But we need something here. Make the hunting blind like mask scent/conceal where its a percentage effective. Like say it's 80% effective of hiding us from the other creatures we are not attacking.
So here are some great ideas, along with some of the other ones we put in. As well as what I see the ranger as being. If the devs want to see our great ideas, all they need to do is read through all the sticky posts. The top 5, the state of post, all have pages of great info from the players. A nice easy place for the devs to start reading through. Can't get much easier. And all this info is here in this post, also sticky at the top.
Teranus, out.
OK not quite out. Just thought of another way to make /conceal useful in PvP. If the devs think my other idea is to unbalancing. What if.....
You are overt, and use a camo kit, you have a damage or accuracy reduction for attacks against you, from other Overt player. So if Im overt, and use camo kit, any overt Imperial that attacks me has a negative accuracey or damage modifier against me. This makes sence because we are wearing a camo kit, that has natural parts from the planet surrounding us, making us blend into the environment. It wil break up our patern against the back drop of our surroundings. So thus its harder to hit us with great accuracy. Makes sence, and it doesn't seem very unbalancing and uber powerful.
NRaas wrote:The original list is:
The Responses
1. Camps Not Repelling Aggressive Creatures
2. Areatrack bugs
4. Traps bugs
- These problems will be looked into and fixed up as soon as possible.
3. Conceal and Humanoid NPCs
The developers have deemed our profession to be the Ultimate Creature Hunters.
But with that, hard choices must be made to follow the path of that vision...
- One of those choices was that /conceal command was never intended to work against humanoid NPCs, and when it did work was the true error.
But do not take this as a loss, but rather a gain...
- With this vision to follow we can finally focus our efforts and push for greater Creature Combat potential for our profession!
We have been shown the path Rangers, do we have the courage to follow?
- I hope we do... No, wait... IKNOW we do.
5./forage bug
- The developers are aware that this command needs some major work, and will look into fixing it up.
[Edit: Because nothing ever pastes right the first time
]
Message Edited by NRaas on 12-19-2003 04:19 PM
Our correspondent as done a tremendous job and should be commended.
Now, on to the rest of the drek. This attidute by the Dev's infuriates me. We are the paying customers. We, by the revenue collected from our accounts pays thier pay checks. They are here for US. Not the other way around. And They are going to dictate to us Thier vision of the game. In complete disreguard of what we have told them, we HAVE to play the game the way They want us to play?? This is completely absurd!!
This is simple laziness. Pure and simple. They dont want to fix something, they simply take it away. NPC's cant act right when a player is concealed. Instead of fixing it, just loose it.
And now, after four months of waiting, we get a half-arsed answers to not even half of the issues and requests about our profession. Where is the profesionalism here?
And I hate it when I am right. I said several weeks ago, that the Space Expansion was gonna be the big new excuse to put off dealing with the issues that concern all the professions. But, I was told that I wouldnt happen. That the profession devs arent invovled in the space expansion. Then.... BANG!! Last week, two of the professions are told thoier devs are being moved to the Space Expansion....
"Complaining about the Devs, whining about not liking the issues or the responses here, etc. are completely unproductive. They may feel good when you get them off your chest, but they don't go a single inch forward in getting this profession to where it needs to be."
Quite frankly I'm surprised this is coming from you Delta. If you consider wanting the Devs to hold to their word and do what was promised months ago, we are at an impasse in our views sir. Lets see.....
"Not liking the issues or responses" I don't like the fact the Dev's didn't respond at all. 3 of the top 5 got no response. If this is acceptable to you, then you and I again disagree. If you call it whining, you and I again, disagree, more over that it's a correspondent (and a respected one at that) accusing us of whining. To be specific Delta, and N'Raas, and Thunderheart, camps not repelling aggro creatures as stated in the manual has been an issue for us since day one. It received ZERO response for the dev's. The theory being that we got "fixed" in August, therefore we were moved to the bottom of the pile. Unacceptable.
Delta, you more than anyone having stood in as our correspondent, should understand our concerns. We are not whining. We want the issues we listed as our top 5 fixed. At the very least we'd like a response from the devs on what is happening with our issues. I hate to repeatedly strike a dead equestrian here but if the developers response to our issues is acceptable to you, then we disagree. TH has spent what seems like forever saying "I'll be working with the coorespondents on the top 5 issues" or "I'll be wrapping up the top 5 issues this week". Well we waited, and waited, for nothing.
My vision for what a Ranger should be has been discussed in several other threads. Articulately, intelligently, and at length. Others have done a much better job with them than I and I will defer to them for more detail on the "vision". In the interrim I would ask that you review the Devs' response to our top 5 and see if you think we are still "whining"
/whineoff
Respectfully,
you know the other day I as watching a TV program with ray meers http://www.raymears.com/
and I started thinking ..
**edit** ... now thats a ranger...
I want to be like him.
I think that if the devolopers watched a few of his programs they'd realise a little better what it means when they say "tracking" or "hunting".