Ranger Archive

---

Calculus_Entropy wrote:

It has been suggested by a certain power that we need to ask simple, easy questions this week...I know, I know. In light of my direct question to the Devs about the Outdoorsman and if it has been looked at and is being considered, I would like to ask a more straight forward question that I really should have gotten feedback from already (but haven't):

Will Rangers get a creature harvesting bonus prior to or with the Combat Balance? If so, what sort of order of magnitude can we expect the bonus to be (+10 skill, +100 skill, +1000 skill?)?

---

And add the ice-cream thing as a post-script.

---

Calculus_Entropy wrote:

---

Kiryoku wrote:

*snip*

Will Rangers get a bonus to creature resource harvests prior to or with the Combat Balance? If so, what sort of order of magnitude can we expect the bonus to be (2x, 5x, 10x)?

---

That sounds much better. I wonder if bonus is the right word, or if we need to work 'increased harvesting mod' in there...

Will Rangers get an increased harvesting mod (relative to Scouts)prior to or with the Combat Balance? If so, what sort of order of magnitude can we expect the bonus to be (2x, 5x, 10x)?

How about that one?

Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 06-15-2004 04:36 PM

---

2 cents...

Can Rangers get a significantincrease in the current yeild of harvested creature resources relative to scouts. And if so,would this increaseoccur before or in conjunction with the combat balance? What sort of magnitute would such an increase be? (2x,5x,10x)?

---

Calculus_Entropy wrote:

It has been suggested by a certain power that we need to ask simple, easy questions this week...I know, I know. In light of my direct question to the Devs about the Outdoorsman and if it has been looked at and is being considered, I would like to ask a more straight forward question that I really should have gotten feedback from already (but haven't):

Will Rangers get a creature harvesting bonus prior to or with the Combat Balance? If so, what sort of order of magnitude can we expect the bonus to be (+10 skill, +100 skill, +1000 skill?)?

---

Will our apparently nerfed/useless traps be looked at and fixed/added to before then of smuggler revamp? We understand that JTL is the main focus, along with jedi revamp and Combat balance. After those, smugglers are getting a revamp, then the squad leaders. We are not askig for a full revamp immedialtely although we are in need of one. We understand that we will be scheduled at some point for a revamp. We would like to see some minor fixing/additions to ranger in the short term. Say by publish 13 can we start getting some attention on our profession on just the tracking line?

OK read some the rest of the posts and saw it seems the question wants to be asked about harvesting. I would like that, and think we need to be able to harvest more then scouts then we do now. But as someone said, they have indicated to lesson resources in the game. Of course that will just drive the economy out of control IMO. Look at how "reducing the production of crude oil" drove up gas prices.

I would though, like to see the question about creature damage mitigation asked. That is, will it be put in WITH the combat balance. I don't see why it wouldn't it's combat, its apparently the only combat devs want us to be good at, and well its a combat balance. Hmmm makes sence. Maybe add in the question about how traps and mask scent, and /examine info, are all classified in two group. NPC and creatures. Traps only work on creatures. Mask scent only works on creatures, and scouts/rangers can only see mass details of examine window on creatures. So this tells us the code is in the game to tell the difference from NPC and creatures. Thus, it should be reasonably easy to take the existing code for that, the existing code for damage mitigation, and put them together to get "creature damage mitigation".

Now yes, maybe the current damage mitigation already works against NPC. Not sure if they ever said it wouldn't. But the point is, rangers are creature centric(according to devs) and we should be taking less damage from them, have an easier time hunting, fighting, killing them. So calculate both damage mitigations. First the normal one that comes from your combat profession, then add the reduction from the creature one. This would also allow non primary combat professions with ranger to still be effective hunters. What about ranger squadleaders? What about ranger CH? Do those get any damage mitigation? Don't think so. It has already been stated many many times the argument how/why rangers should get reduction in damage from creatures.

Message Edited by Squidwalker on 06-15-2004 05:29 PM

---

Squidwalker wrote:

---

Calculus_Entropy wrote:

It has been suggested by a certain power that we need to ask simple, easy questions this week...I know, I know. In light of my direct question to the Devs about the Outdoorsman and if it has been looked at and is being considered, I would like to ask a more straight forward question that I really should have gotten feedback from already (but haven't):

Will Rangers get a creature harvesting bonus prior to or with the Combat Balance? If so, what sort of order of magnitude can we expect the bonus to be (+10 skill, +100 skill, +1000 skill?)?

---

Response: We just gave you Harvesting droids ...make use of them.

I hate to join the "glass is half empty" crowd, but what I'm getting here is that we're getting coached toward a simple question in order to facilitate TH having an easy time with response. As far as I'm concerned, we should send him a page long question with regard to all the promises made and yet to be forthcoming. We should pull out all the quotes of where DEVs have made mention of conflicting information, proving that Rangers skills are sorely lacking and there are no plans to fix us. My $15.00 a month is no more valuable than anyone else playing this game - but I expect honesty and direct responses to my questions.

Whatever you guys decide to ask is fine, but we need to get to the meat of the matter. This is our only link to the DEVs ...they do not come to our forum, they apparently don't read our proposals, and they seem to have us at the bottom of the pile in terms of concern.

As an aside ...I am a Master Ranger, intended to stay that way until the profession is removed from the game or the game is gone. However, please don't mistake that as my being pleased with the profession as it stands at all. Actually, I think it is severely lacking. I want Ranger to be what it is supposed to be ...as it was hyped up in the description I read prior to choosing this profession.

---

Nemo0 wrote:

As things stand now, the 19 answers really don't tell us anything (Wait for the Combat Balance, No, I'm not sure, Maybe, says exactly what the entire player base already knows, etc). As such, I don't see much of a point in making the question a normal question. But the actual phrasing of the question we ask does matter. Pointing out things like dizzy, conceal, and conflicting responses from multiple Devs will force a response. If TH blows the question off then I think most of the game community will flame him.

Asking for a small change will do nothing (see the Million Monkeys threads for an example). TH will just tell us to work with our correspondent to get something in the Correspondents' Issues patch.

The exact wording will be hard to decide. I'm not sure how much time we have before submission, but I would consider just making a list of the inconsistencies we have on the direction of our profession. We need to provide a strong basis to stand on without making it sound too wordy. Something like:

---

The Ranger profession has many inconsistencies in the information we have from which to derive a professional purpose. Some of these are

1. You (TH) like the Outdoorsman Proposal in which Rangers attempt to fight the creature only view of our profession while, at the Fan Fest, GreenMarine still seems intent on the creature only view (although he later admitted to not having seen the proposal).


2. Scouts and Rangers each obtain a dizzy trap (Lecepanine Dart at Novice Scout and the Sonic Pulse Trap [the higher of the 2 Ranger traps]). Dizzy only fully works on humanoid but traps only affect creatures.


3. The description for /conceal indicates that it works on NPCs. When Rangers reported many months back that the NPC perfomance was bugged, the Developers claimed that it was never meant to work on NPCs and that we were meant to be creature only (contradicting the original description and prompting the Outdoorsman).

With the recently stated Developer focus on the Galactic Civil War, Rangers are worried about our role in this endgame. The Mandalorian armor certification seems to point to a divergence from the creature only view but the Fan Fest discussion had us firmly embedded in the original view. What is the Developers' current view of the Ranger profession? We realize that this is all subject to change but we need some direction to continue working on ideas for our profession. At the very least, we must be aware of a view to challenge or expand it. Some example answers that the Ranger community would find acceptable (even if we don't like the view) are Creature Hunter (best at finding creatures to kill and knowing how to kill them), Creature Killer (best at actually killing the creatures), Outdoorsman (as in the proposal), Military Ranger (expert at hiding and attacking in the wilderness and sabotage/ambushes), Aragorn type Ranger (a combination of the above views), Park Ranger, etc.

---

Any thoughts (especially in the section describing possible answers)?

Edit: Wording

Message Edited by Nemo0 on 06-15-2004 09:31 PM

---

I still think this one is a simple easy question (honestly). If the Devs haven't really thought about it then the answer would be "Creature Hunter" (possibly with an explanation saying that Rangers just haven't been a priority and so the focus has not really changed). Otherwise, the answer should be reasonably easy to give. Yes, it takes a bit of time to read but it shouldn't really be hard to answer. Just make sure TH realizes that the answer might be vague but we need some definate direction. An answer like "We don't know, what do you want it to be?" is not acceptable whereas something like "Because Rangers have not been a Dev priority recently, the current trend is still Creature Hunter" or "Now that the focus is on the GCW, Rangers are seen to be more like Aragorn but with a strong lean towards the Creature Hunter" would be ideal. It really shouldn't be hard to answer and the response would be very useful.

I read the smuggler forum earlier today and yesterday GreenMarine posted there.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=95411

I am hoping we get something like this soon. It seems like a really good way to focus discussion before a revamp. So I am not so worried anymore about whether GM has seen the Outdoorsman. He seems to know how to do his homework and I am sure he will read it before planning our revamp. I just wish we knew when he was going to have the time. And I can't remember whether we are officially on the list. Are we sure to come after the Squad Leaders? I'm not suggesting this as our question - just hoping one of you guys know.

---

Flynn_Nomad wrote:

2 cents...

Can Rangers get a significantincrease in the current yeild of harvested creature resources relative to scouts. And if so,would this increaseoccur before or in conjunction with the combat balance? What sort of magnitute would such an increase be? (2x,5x,10x)?

---

OK I like the question....but....maybe add....

Can Rangers get a significantincrease in the current yeild of harvested creature resources relative to scouts. And if so,would this increaseoccur before or in conjunction with the combat balance? What sort of magnitute would such an increase be? (2x,5x,10x)? Harvest all resources?

---

Calculus_Entropy wrote:

---

Kiryoku wrote:

*snip*

Will Rangers get a bonus to creature resource harvests prior to or with the Combat Balance? If so, what sort of order of magnitude can we expect the bonus to be (2x, 5x, 10x)?

---

That sounds much better. I wonder if bonus is the right word, or if we need to work 'increased harvesting mod' in there...

Will Rangers get an increased harvesting mod (relative to Scouts)prior to or with the Combat Balance? If so, what sort of order of magnitude can we expect the bonus to be (2x, 5x, 10x)? Also, what is GreenMarines favorite flavor of ice cream? In addition to increased heavesting, how does the idea of Rangers harvesting all 3 resources from one critter sit with the devs?

How about that one?

Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 06-15-2004 04:36 PM

---

This whole question is becoming a PITA! We will make it thorugh though . I would like to add the part about harvesting 3 resources, BUT I think it will get shot down as more than one question...I will try for it, though. I will have to go ahead and submit this, but TH usually allows for changes. I am sorry Nemo and fnas of Nemos question, we can certainly do that question next time .

WAIT!!!

About the harvesting MOD Question, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO PUT ALONG THE QUESTION THE CONTEXT OF WHY WE WANT TO GET THE INCREASE. IF WE DONT PUT THE CONTEXT, WE WILL LIKELY BE TURNED DOWN CUZ THUNDERHEART HAS USUALLY TURNED DOWN REQUESET WHERE PEOPLE DONT EXPLAIN THE REASON OF WHY THEY ARE REQUESTING IT.
PLEASE CALCULUS! PLEASE RANGER COMMUNITY DONT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF SENING IN A QUESTION QITHOUT A CONTEXT! WE DONT WANT OUT REAL FIRST ATTEMPT OF GETTING THE CREATURE HARVESTING MOD TO BE SHOT DOWN JUST BECAUSE TH MIGHT THINK WE WANT TO HARVEST MORE BECAUSE WE ARE GREEDY AND WE WANT MORE MONEY AND WE DONT CARE ABOUT OVERFLOWING THE ALREADY OVERFLOWN RESOURCE INJECTION SYSTEM IN SWG ECONOMY!

I posted like tow pages ago the creature harvesting mod question with a context of why we want the increase. Mine is just an attmept, we can change it to make it more simpler or more clarified, what REALLY MATTER IS TO SUBMIT THE QUESTION WITH A CONTEXT!!!

Here it is, im a posting it again for your consideration ( please modify it if u want to make it more simple)

TH, with the newcome chef and droid engineer enhancements, a Master Scout with some BE Veghash and a 100+ Creature Harvesting Droid can harvest about the same amount a Master Ranger can harvest. We are not against CH harvesting food and droids , these are very good and welcomed enhancemnts that have brought many benefits, but we feel that the fact that if a Master Ranger uses the same food and droid WONT GET any considerable increase in the harvest yield amount is seriusly devaluating the Ranger profession. Due to how the Creature Harvesting MOD works ( non-linear progression), in order to get a considerable difference in the yield amount, Master Rangers and Trackers would like to get a considerable raise in the Creature Harvesting MOD in order to actually see any difference on the harvest yield with our Master Scout counterparts, both with Veghash and CH Droid AND without them. Being our creature harvesting capabilities our main source of income, and due to fact that our other tree skill trees have also been devaluated ( conceal not better than mask scent and not working on NPC's, ranger traps not better than scout traps, camps not repelling agro creatures and not serving a consistet purpose anymore)and no revamps possible for our prfession until long after JTL, we rangers feel that raising our creature harvesting mod is a very needed improvement that doesnt seem to be very a "dev time" consuming enhancement and that can actually give us something on which we can really differentiate from our Master Scout counterparts. So the simple question is:
Can we expect from the dev team to raise our Creature Harvesting MOD anytime soon? The suggested increase is: Tracking 4 granting a 25+ CH MOD ( +15 more than we have in the present) and the Master Ranger Box granting a 65+ CH MOD ( 55+ more than we have at the present). Even though a total of 60+ more Creature harvesting may seems too much at a first glance, we must respectfully point out that since we know that the Creature Harvesting MOD doenst work in a linear progression, the higher the level number u have on the CH mod the higher u need an increase in order to see any considerable difference. ( Ex: unarmed damage mods doesnt work linealry either, that's why a Master TKA get a 70+ increase in order to see considerable difference between the +15 they get on each box of the power techinques line).

PLEASE, PLEASE DONT SUBMIT THE QUESTION WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY WE WANT THE INCREASE OR ELSE WE MIGHT GET TURNED DOWN.... AGAIN!

Uhm, Nemo, I hate to say this but ... i dont have the intention to flame you or anything but :

NO THE WAY THAT SOME MODS WORK IN THIS GAME ARE NOT, I REPEAT NOT LINEAR. There are SO MANY POST , and TESTS done about it that its not even worht it to post a thread were u can read it, cuz if u do a quick search on the profession board about how mods work you will find it quickly.YOU ARE RIGHT when u say the EXPERIMETATION, ASSEMBLY, or ACCURACY wok in a linear mode, but sadly WEAPON SPEED, UNARMED DAMAGE and some others DONT WORK IN A LINEAR MODE. Anyway, I will post just ONE of the HUNDREDS of threads were u can see by yourself an explanation oh how weapon speed, for example, doesnt follow a linear progression:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=carabineer&message.id=29468

Maybe the best post for you to read it would be the Volsted Weapon Speed thread, it must be somewhere in the marksmen forum, if u look for it u will find it. Volsted is a player who is mathematician in real life and who conducted a series of tests on weapon speed, he discovered the inner works of how weapon speed functions in SWG. The "volsdted rating" ( or something liek that, dont remeber the name exactly) was a formaula he developed, and it has become so common knowledge that people dont even know the name of the formaula. the formaula is the follwoing:

[(100 - Player Mod) / 100] * Weapon Speed * Special Delay = Actual Speed

And the formula shows how the higher u get on speed, the higher u need an ecrease per skill box to notice any difference. The same as how Creature Harvesting MOD works. If it WAS LINEAR, as you say it is, how can you explain that a hunter sees a huge differnece in creature harvest yield with a master scout, when a guy with tracking 3 domt see a considerbal difference with a master ranger?. Nrass, our prevois correspondent, made a series of test about the difference between the master ranger yeilds vs the master scout yields. I would look the htread but im too tired now to do so. Anywya, if u look hard in the ranger forum u will find it by yourself.


Anyway, i did cut some stuff ofn the question so it would be shorter, simpler and esier to read, here it is:

With the new chef and De changes a Master Scout with some BE food and a 100 CHDroid can harvest about the same amount a Master Ranger can harvest. We are not against CH harvesting food and droids, but we feel that the fact that if a Master Ranger uses the same food and droid WONT GET any considerable increase in the harvest yield amount is seriously devaluating the Ranger profession. Being our harvesting capabilities our main source of income, and due to fact that our other tree skill trees have also been devaluated (lots of issues in our conceal, camps and trapping lines)and no revamps possible soon, we feel that raising our CH Mod is a very needed improvement that doesnt seem to be very a "dev time" consuming enhancement and that can actually give us something on which we can really differentiate from Master Scouts. So the simple question is:
Can we expect from the dev team to raise our Creature Harvesting MOD?
Suggestion: Tracking 4 granting 25( +15 more) and the Master Ranger Box granting 65( 55+ more). Even though a total of 70+ more may seem too much, we must respectfully say that since we know that the CH MOD doesnt work in a linear progression, the higher the level number u have on the CH mod the higher u need an increase in order to see any considerable difference. ( Ex: unarmed damage mod dont work linearly, that's why a Master TKA get a 70+ increase in order to see considerable difference between the +15 they get on each box of the power techniques line).

Not much of a difference with my previous one but at least is shorter .....