Ranger Archive
Thread: Limiting us from 2/3 of the game.
Iseult wrote:
BioEngine wrote:
What I have a problem with, specifically, is that it would be suicide to grind Ranger first and your combat complementary profession second.
Box for Box, brawlers and marksmen will survive a fight and deal damage. Scouts just have to focus on surviving it.....
Actually - it's not that bad - I dropped all of my carbine skills, including novice marksman to get enough medic and BE skills to do the FS persuasion quest. So, I basically had to start over, but I really didn't have a problem taking out things of my level. Being over CL54 meant that I could use a decent damage weapon (laster carbine) and the health bonuses + the full battle armor mitigation didn't hurt either. Of course, I was taking down creature lairs mostly, so I could use my ranger traps. But I was amazed at how well I did, relatively speaking of course. Oh, I should also add that I kept a lot of medic skills (have been surrendering them as I progress up the carbines tree, so we'll see how it goes when I'm near master carbineer again and don't have any skillpoints for medic.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin
Message Edited by Iseult on 09-09-2005 10:24 AM
What I was talking about is Ranger by itself. Which, at master, has +25 to hit using the default attack everyone has, and the +10 defenses. CL 54 is only representative of a combat proficiency, but all professions except for BE and Ranger either already had or were given the combat modifiers to reflect that. You used your marksman skills and CL with your Medic skills and CL in order to fight, and I'm assuming that this was while you guys were hunting Naboo Wooly a few days ago, which means you were also in a group. I was strictly talking about Ranger being the first and only profession a new player had and was going to master before seeking out a complementary combat or combat support profession, which would not do so well.
BTW, I should be getting my computer back today. They tested everything but the motherboard by last night, and it was still crashing. Swapping out every other hardware piece down to the power supply and hard drive, and it was still crashing on an employee's account which had no ctd's since launch on the same setup. Looks like I'll be buying a new motherboard soon >.<
Ok, time to wade in with my 10 cents. This has been an interesting discussion with many good points from many people. My feeling is that all sides are not as far apart as they might think, as there have been a couple of misunderstandings. I feel it is important, however, to have this debate.
Anyway - my thoughts are that Ranger, the profession, should enable the playstyle of all the different interpretations of ranger that we've been given. I feel that it should be wilderness-centric, which, to a certain extent it is. But also thatthe creature centric (hunter) should remain as part of that.
Either way, Ranger skills should complement any template, not hinder it. If it is focused more on creatures, then fine. But bear in mind. What's more effective at taking down a CL80 creature? A MRanger/MRifleman? Or practically any other Double Master. Rangers should have some weapon moves that can be utilised against any mob, and should also have general combat bonuses at various points too. I'm not after a repeat of the BH bonuses per box. BH should remain weapon specialists. Butthere should be more than the teeny bonus Creature ToHit modifier, and equally teeny Ranged/Melee defence bonus at master. Especially given the sp costs
PS if anyone answers MRanger/MRifleman as the most effective template for creatures then D'OH!!!! 
Skadoink wrote:
PS if anyone answers MRanger/MRifleman as the most effective template for creatures then D'OH!!!!
meh, I shock and amaze the power-templated people by soloing Ancient Krayts as a MBH/Master Ranger, then watch Jedi get munched and crunched attempting to do the same. Ranger is actually very effective at killing critters when you use your head. True, other people can do the same with different templates, but remember that a Master pistoleer/master rifleman doesn't hit for any more when using rifle specials.
It's all about how smaret you play when you're a Ranger. I'll take on any critter in this game with enough P-darts made.
ROFLMAO
Rancorrider4 wrote:
"These are the guys they send into enemy lines to scout and set up opp stations"
Can you even imagine? Calc would curl up into a fetal position and start sucking his thumb......
A Galaxy full of Opp's.........
That doens't realy count.............Calc has been seen with pink Hawtpants on and he was milking Nightsisters. Sucking his thumb at this point would seem rather normal to me.
BioEngine wrote:
Iseult wrote:
BioEngine wrote:
What I have a problem with, specifically, is that it would be suicide to grind Ranger first and your combat complementary profession second.
Box for Box, brawlers and marksmen will survive a fight and deal damage. Scouts just have to focus on surviving it.....
Actually - it's not that bad - I dropped all of my carbine skills, including novice marksman to get enough medic and BE skills to do the FS persuasion quest. So, I basically had to start over, but I really didn't have a problem taking out things of my level. Being over CL54 meant that I could use a decent damage weapon (laster carbine) and the health bonuses + the full battle armor mitigation didn't hurt either. Of course, I was taking down creature lairs mostly, so I could use my ranger traps. But I was amazed at how well I did, relatively speaking of course. Oh, I should also add that I kept a lot of medic skills (have been surrendering them as I progress up the carbines tree, so we'll see how it goes when I'm near master carbineer again and don't have any skillpoints for medic.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
BloodfinMessage Edited by Iseult on 09-09-2005 10:24 AM
What I was talking about is Ranger by itself. Which, at master, has +25 to hit using the default attack everyone has, and the +10 defenses. CL 54 is only representative of a combat proficiency, but all professions except for BE and Ranger either already had or were given the combat modifiers to reflect that. You used your marksman skills and CL with your Medic skills and CL in order to fight, and I'm assuming that this was while you guys were hunting Naboo Wooly a few days ago, which means you were also in a group. I was strictly talking about Ranger being the first and only profession a new player had and was going to master before seeking out a complementary combat or combat support profession, which would not do so well.
BTW, I should be getting my computer back today. They tested everything but the motherboard by last night, and it was still crashing. Swapping out every other hardware piece down to the power supply and hard drive, and it was still crashing on an employee's account which had no ctd's since launch on the same setup. Looks like I'll be buying a new motherboard soon >.<
Well - no, I was solo - I did go hunt with moof and his group, but before I did that I had to get back up from novice marksman to novice carbiner, and I did that solo and was frankly surprised that I was able to do so well. Yes, I used my combat skills from marksman to kill the things (who wouldn't) and my medic skills to heal myself, but the CL increase I got from master ranger gave me the ability to weild a decent weapon, wear battle armor, and increased HAM. Master ranger by itself will get you above level 50 and this affords some decent advantages (ability to use higher damage weapons, wear battle armor, etc...). I suppose that if I just had master ranger and no combat skills at all - not even novice, then maybe I'd be hurting, but I did seem to do ok with master ranger climbing up the novice marksman trees towards novice carbineer.
Good news about your computer! Well, sort of good news - sorry that you have to buy a new motherboard, but it will be good to have you back in the game again....
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin
Phenix1050 wrote:
but remember that a Master pistoleer/master rifleman doesn't hit for any more when using rifle specials.
Actually, they will if the system is working properly. As I understand it, a damage bonus/reduction is given based on the difference between the respective Accuracy and Defence modifiers of the hitter and hittee, since MPistols willgive like +75 acc and +20 speed more than MRanger will in addition to MRifles, the MRifle/MPistol will indeed hit harder, more often, and faster, than MRanger/MRifles. And will have stopping shot. And extra defences.......
I don't understand what npc's you can't kill as a Ranger. Maybe its because I am Mtka, but I have been doing faction missions the last couple weeks, just for a change of pace. I really don't have a problem solo'n lvl 82 imp destroy missions solo. Camo works....CAMO WORKS.....It sorta gives me a ninja feel, I can go up to a target, engage, and in most cases 95% of the time, none of the other 'agressive' imp. targets from the same mission will see my lumping up their mate. I have found the storm trooper squad leaders allmost allways see me tho, but I can still take 2, 3 if i use one stim d.
Our creature to hit, and accuacry bonuses do work. I have noticed a difference in my dizzy state, and armor break (the only 2 state specials that I have since I chose only one combat profession (tka), since Ranger don't really count) do not stick as often against npc's, it drops to around 70 maybe 80% on a good day.
I don't want the same bonuses to hit npc's or pc's as I have for critters, I just want to be equal to every other combat class in the game. I want what few traps that do work, to work against npc's and pc's. H*** the traps don't do a lot of debuffing, just a little, so what is the problem.
I really don't think the Ranger comunity wants to be the l33test killing machine in the game, better at beasties yes, but just plane equal to every other combat profession in the game.
That is absolutely correct Skadoink. And irrespective of Ranger that is one of the positives of the CU and the ability to mix and match templates. One of the popular templates floating around since the CU included MBH/4004 Rifleman/0400 Pistoleer/0400Carb/Master Marksman. This template gives someone wielding a rifle +345 Accuracy and +120 speed. Surely a great hunter in the right hands. There are many wonderful templates but one does not look to Ranger if they want to improve their characters combatcapabilities in general.
Skadoink wrote:
Phenix1050 wrote:
but remember that a Master pistoleer/master rifleman doesn't hit for any more when using rifle specials.
Actually, they will if the system is working properly. As I understand it, a damage bonus/reduction is given based on the difference between the respective Accuracy and Defence modifiers of the hitter and hittee, since MPistols willgive like +75 acc and +20 speed more than MRanger will in addition to MRifles, the MRifle/MPistol will indeed hit harder, more often, and faster, than MRanger/MRifles. And will have stopping shot. And extra defences.......
Cryos Wrote:
"if I'm fighting a tough NPC, I may call a BH in to help. Conversely, if my BH buddy is fighting a tough creature, he'll call me in to help"
Thing is though, BHs are equally as competant at creature killing than they are at player/npc killing. They are simply a profession in the game with their own place that doesnt specialise in any combat arena. They are good in all areas equally. Whilst many may feel BHs are the NPC specialists, they are not, they are just bounty hunters, they do not specialise in one form of combat.
BHshave a humanoid hunting background, and thats what makes the profession it is. Their skills are styled and their profession layed out to play into a humanoid hunter role. Their skills dont make them any more competant at killing npcs than it does creatures and thats what we need. We can have a profession focus without putting limitations on our prefered playstyles. We can be masters of the wilderness without focusing us on creature combat, we can be be recon units without focusing us on npc combat. Its all in the profession background, forget about creature/npc/player specific. No other class in game has this but us.
Phenix1050 wrote:
AgonThalia wrote:
I agree with Calc and JB.
1: Ranger is a limitation because we are designed to be creature centric, however, just because i cant kill high level NPC's as a master ranger, does not mean that my gameplay is gated. I ask my friends who are better at combat to come help out. Most of the time, they oblige.
Here's the point. If there's a level 82 creature, does a "humanoid-centric" profession have to call for your help? No. As a Carbineer/BH with some pistol skills, I can root, snare, etc creatures the same way that I dowith Ranger skills. But then I can also turn around and do that to an NPC. Why should a Ranger have to call for help against an NPC when others don't have to call for help against a critter
2: I think that ranger as a combat class will cause more problems than solutions. If we are brought inline with the combat professions, the focus will not be on our unique creature centric abilities.
Seperate combat role from content role. BH's have a humanoid-centric content role, but they are universal in combat. If Ranger is made universal in combat, we can still have creature-centric content.
3: if we are given a much more diverse and powerful skillset vs. creatures and general combat, then that essentially defines our role in groups.
no, if we are made more powerful against creatures, it will only serve to make us overpowered in that area, making them rebalance creature combat. I can already solo any creature in the game. If they make us "more powerful" against creatures, I'll be able to solo things faster than I should be able to.
4: if you are looking at pure limitations, rifleman has limitations because it's high dmg, low defense... there will always be limitations in professions, and its those limitations that encourage grouping and diversity.
Riflemen can use their power against every enemy in the game and fill in their weaknesses. The weakness you're talking about is power on the 9 point scale (crowd control, offense, defense) Riflemen have high offense, low defense. Rangers have high crowd control....against creatures...and that's it. See the difference?
5: i want rangers to be more creature centric, and not to be more spec. ops. If you want spec-ops, go BH-commando, or rifleman-commando or something that combines the skillsets you want.
so either subscribe to your view or leave the profession. Come on, let's not act like that here. I should be able to play Ranger however I see fit, just like you. I RP my BH/Ranger as a bit of a Cop, going after Bismari poachers. If I choose to RP it as a hunter, should I be forced to leave the BH profession? You're entitled to play your Ranger as you see fit. But I should be able to have my Ranger skills help me play the profession the way I want to.
this is just my personal opinion, my complaint about the ranger profession is NOT with its limitations, thats a given... my complaint is that we are not unique and need more functionality in the skills that we already have.
I have to agree with everything the Irishman wrote on this one. Being a Master Ranger / <insert combat profession here> does not make you any better at combat versus creatures than say a BH/Rifleman does, it is actually worse. While I love the great creature harvesting bonuses we get from Ranger, especially at Master Ranger, I feel that our profession is tied only to creature harvesting. Terrain negotiation is easily obtained by mods that actually work from Tailors, camping has no real use anymore, and trapping doesn't work as effectively as <insert combat profession here>'s equivalent special.
Therefore yes, we are limited in our overall abilities, just not really from the game. Anyone at any level can choose do engage in whatever kind of combat they want, however that does not mean they'll be effective at it.
I guess my biggest problem with Ranger is the same problem we've always had: what is our true role? This has yet to be truly defined. We are not masters of the outdoors, our SP requirements limit us from picking up other useful skills, we get no general acc/spd bonuses of any sort. Yet we as a profession help boost combat levels. It really all just doesn't make any sense.
BioEngine wrote:
Have we answered your question yet?
I was trying to get a feel for what the community thinks...I think I have.
Of the 100 people that post, there are 100 different opinions
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