Ranger Archive
Thread: Harvesting changes to come
Phenix1050
Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:55 pm
#66
me either man. I'm like a freaking bulldog on this issue and if I have anything to say about it, this will not go live in it's current form. I'm discussing this on three forums at once (if I could get access to the Corr. forum, it'd be 4). Believe me, a lot of people are working very hard against this change.
Owen-Lars wrote:
Paks Wrote:
"We can guess why, but that is not the same. This must be most frustrating for the Corrs and Glowies. I don't envy you guys"
Hehe dont even get me started
There is still time to change it though and im not letting up on this, i see penalty removal as a possitive step but game wide group harvesting bonuses as a bad idea. I would rather see group bonuses branch off into other areas, not into harvesting.
AragornSoS
Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:00 pm
#67
Almag
"The penalty for harvesting while in a group has been removed and replaced with a 20% harvesting bonus when harvesting while in a group."
I'm reading this as a 20% increase to harvesting, not an increase of 20 to harvesting.
In your analogy, the novice medic would get 10% of their 5pts med use, or an extra 1 point. Not an increase to 25. Hardly the grounds for a screamfest from the docs and medics.
If it IS a straight addition of 20points to the harvest mod, thats madness, if it's a % increase across the board those with small mods benefit less than those of us with huge mods. As it should be.
What we need to do is get the removal of the group penalty seperated from the addition of the harvest bonus for grouping.
So, everyone gets rid of the group penalty, but only at Master Scout and Master ranger do you get an additional 10% when grouped. This gives an incentive to Master, everyone gets an effective increase in harvest anyway, but those who invest the most get the most.
hmmm... I might have misread / misunderstood the patch notes then. I read it as, if I was harvesting as, say, +15 to start with, when I grouped I'd be at +35. If it's a 20% bonus based on "your" existing harvest skill as you say and not a +20% bonus that's "added" to your harvest skill, then it's not quite so bad (so +15 becomes +18 not +35). I guess I'll have to hop on TC too and test it and see, I'm stuck at work now and just trying to keep up with all this on the boards.
I guess we all still agreetho that removal of penalty = nothing but good.
Adding any additional bonus of ANY kind = only granted at Master Scout / Master Ranger level. Regardless of if it's +20% flat out, +20% * (your current skill here) or any other funky forumla that the Devs come up with. There's no reason to hand out that bonus to "just anyone", I can't think of any good rationale for it at all.
Almagill
Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:55 pm
#68
frightwig wrote:
Ken, how did you even get a group harvest bonus on TC?
I'm 0020 and I didn't seem to get any group bonus Tuesday evening or Wednesday. I was still suffereing from the -40% penalty, no matter how many different people I tried grouping with.
Also, Thortac, Isrep and I tried to test out the bonus near the ranger lodge in SS and we were all seeing the 40% penalty, but no bonus. All of us were ranger.
From what we could tell, it's not currently working correctly on TC
We tested this off several creatures from the same lair, and isrep and I both had -40% harvest when grouped. I grouped many times with random people on Naboo, Tat and Dantooine, and never saw any kind of boost.Message Edited by frightwig on 02-16-2005 02:18 PM
I mentioned in another thread (there's been a lot and I've lost track) that, after trying a few times the very small variation I was getting, which if you screwed your eyes up some and looked at it in the right light could conceivably be an extra 20% of my non-ranger, scout type harvesters harvest mod, was probably just down to variations on the resource density across the area I was working.
That having been said, unless you're 0040 Scout or above the increases aren't going to be massive on a per kill basis. A harvest mod of 50, giving say 30 units of hide off a creature, is only going to increase by about a couple of units. Allowing for rounding you might see an increase of 2 off one beast, 1 of the next.
Grouping with another player I was persuading myself the increase was down to the change. Only thing I got a significant increase on was weapon skills when I grouped up with a low level droid.
Apologies for misleading you all, but I just kill stuff, don't usually do the math
Almagill
Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:01 pm
#69
AragornSoS wrote:
Almag
"The penalty for harvesting while in a group has been removed and replaced with a 20% harvesting bonus when harvesting while in a group."
I'm reading this as a 20% increase to harvesting, not an increase of 20 to harvesting.
In your analogy, the novice medic would get 10% of their 5pts med use, or an extra 1 point. Not an increase to 25. Hardly the grounds for a screamfest from the docs and medics.
If it IS a straight addition of 20points to the harvest mod, thats madness, if it's a % increase across the board those with small mods benefit less than those of us with huge mods. As it should be.
What we need to do is get the removal of the group penalty seperated from the addition of the harvest bonus for grouping.
So, everyone gets rid of the group penalty, but only at Master Scout and Master ranger do you get an additional 10% when grouped. This gives an incentive to Master, everyone gets an effective increase in harvest anyway, but those who invest the most get the most.
hmmm... I might have misread / misunderstood the patch notes then. I read it as, if I was harvesting as, say, +15 to start with, when I grouped I'd be at +35. If it's a 20% bonus based on "your" existing harvest skill as you say and not a +20% bonus that's "added" to your harvest skill, then it's not quite so bad (so +15 becomes +18 not +35). I guess I'll have to hop on TC too and test it and see, I'm stuck at work now and just trying to keep up with all this on the boards.
I guess we all still agree tho that removal of penalty = nothing but good.
Adding any additional bonus of ANY kind = only granted at Master Scout / Master Ranger level. Regardless of if it's +20% flat out, +20% * (your current skill here) or any other funky forumla that the Devs come up with. There's no reason to hand out that bonus to "just anyone", I can't think of any good rationale for it at all.
Please remember that this is ONLY an assumption on my part, I've seen nothing other than the patch notes and, as it turns out the figures I'd managed to claw together off my chars on TC were inconclusive (I'd go as far as saying just plain wrong)
It is just possible they're giving us a +20 to harvesting across the board, but the effect that would have would be cataclysmic.
Recent 'misinterpretations' of patch notes and dev instructions, even by dev's, have left me in a frame of mind that says "until somebody shows me exactly what thos patch is meant to refer to it could mean anything".
THis isn't a criticism of the Dev's, SOE, testers, players or anyone else just an observation that we've had some corking bits of misinformation.
AragornSoS
Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:32 pm
#70
I think we agree on ALL counts... the patch notes are a bit confusing, the taking down and mothballing of TC without any notice today is unfortunate, and it's unclear whether the 20% bonus is (20% more based on your harvest mod) or (your harvest mod + 20).
I guess all we can do is wait, see, and rest secure in the knowledge that Owen, JB, Calc, Brisc and others aren't going to just lay down and let 'em just run over the Scouts and Rangers. Ideally we'd see a removal of the harvest penalty for grouping, and that would be decoupled from any "group harvest bonus" which should really be a bennie for Master Scouts & Master Rangers to provide, like SLs provide the group TN bonus.
Guess I'll just concentrate on getting my bacta tank tonight, then see if that awesome fish is still in spawn over on Endor I think it was....
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:47 pm
#71
Here is the exact quote of the TC patch notes:
The penalty for harvesting while in a group has been removed and replaced with a 20% harvesting bonus when harvesting while in a group.
20% harvesting bonus means 20% bonus, not +20 to the skill mod. I am not sure how people even misinterpretted this 
.
.
AragornSoS
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:01 pm
#72
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Here is the exact quote of the TC patch notes:
The penalty for harvesting while in a group has been removed and replaced with a 20% harvesting bonus when harvesting while in a group.
20% harvesting bonus means 20% bonus, not +20 to the skill mod. I am not sure how people even misinterpretted this
well, I for one thought (perhaps mistakenly) that skill mods were showing what percent of 100 (consider that "full skill?") that you have? +125 skill was like having 125% (full skill + 25 % bonus from bio clothes, CA/AA, etc). If I'm wrong, chalk it up to my only being around here for just over 6 months now. If skill mod != (%age of a skill up to 100 which is "mastery" short of bio, CA, AA stuff) then that explains it I guess...
I think the confusion, at least for me, is when you tell me I'm getting a 20% bonus... is that adding 20% on TOP of my skill (if you think of the 1-100 skill mods as %ages this is huge), or adding a bonus of 20% OF my skill? It's a pretty big difference, and if the skill mods shouldn't ever be considered as %ages then I'm even more confused as to what they are, since I thought that for MOST skills, a mod of "100" was the same as saying you had 100% of that skill.... aaaargh. Skill mod + 31% veghash +20% grouping bonus.... all this math, myhead is spinning now (says the engineer!), time to go heal peeps and then spend a few hours fishing. 
I should have just shut up and agreed that no penalty = good, giving bonus to "just anyone" vs limited to MScout/MRanger being in the group = not so good.
Now, if someone wants to talk 'bout a 20% bonus to FORAGE... that plus my sweet, sweet +7 forage tusken robe, I'll be the mighty forager, and I shall forage until I find THREE melons at once. Ha!
Owen-Lars
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:04 pm
#73
Well its not in TC atm (probly why it wasnt working for us eh kimi? haha) so hopefully its either the bonus situation is getting reworked or its simply not ready to go to tc yet.
Removing the harvesting penalty was a great idea and something ive wanted for a long long time. The idea of giving everyone the harvesting 'bonus' instead of linking it to harvesting skill level or developing it into useful ranger skill to enhance the groups they are in (hunting guide anyone?) is a bad idea and im against that. I would be happy if everyone just got a 5% increase to promote grouping but i believe the bonuses to groups should be given by rangers of the right skill level as their roles in groups.
Owen-Lars
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:10 pm
#74
So whos on Gorath wanting to group and get some quality testing done?
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:13 pm
#75
Aragorn, my take is something like this:
- Equation: Your mod * 20% + Your mod = Grouped mod
- If your mod is +100then 100*20% + 100 = +120 mod while grouped
-
If your mod is +75then 75*20% +75 = +90 mod while grouped -
If your mod is +50then 50*20% + 50 = +60 mod while grouped -
If your mod is +25then 25*20% +25 = +30 mod while grouped
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:14 pm
#76
Owen-Lars wrote:
So whos on Gorath wanting to group and get some quality testing done?
Ummm...it's not on TC-Gorath yet...(check the TC-Gorath patch notes
).
Owen-Lars
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:22 pm
#77
lol calc im loosing it man. I even stated myself 5 minutes before i posted that the notes say the changes are not on tc.
Yup the can owen be trusted thread is perfectly justified it seems lol
........ Or perhaps its all you that are insane not me, yeah thats it, insane i tell you insane.
Phenix1050
Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:46 pm
#78
Well what we CAN test is with equal buffs and equal medicine how well a Master Ranger will fare against a Scout Stacker. Since the blue frog rifle will likely be the same relative power as the blue frog sword and the blue frog VK, we can get a Ranger/Combat prof to go hunting for an hour and have the stackerdo the same in the same area. End of the hour, we see who has more. As I remember, the last time we tested this, the Ranger was out-harvested by the scout, and the approximate numbers were about 2 kills to 1.
We can keep testing that and apply those numbers to a formula with a 20% increase.
not too hard.