Ranger Archive

Thread: It seems like Tiggs is saying we'll be waiting even longer...

Almagill
Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:34 am
#66



Iseult wrote:
ok message edited - I don't mind if non-rangers post here. I just wish you guys would stop with the negativity or at least try to understand where those of us who still enjoy and play the profession are coming form.

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbiner
Bloodfin

Message Edited by Iseult on 07-29-2005 06:28 PM

Message Edited by Iseult on 07-29-2005 06:30 PM





{{{HUGS}}} Iseult

FWIW, I agree with you on the negativity and a few other things, and am just as PO'd at the lack of positive progress we've made in so long.

Then again, it can't be 'all bad' or I'd not be spawning little ranger loonies all over the galaxies

Best wishes,
Ken



New HOWTO: Gather Milk, Fish, Mollusk, etc.
Remember Rangers. Broke camp and took the Long Walk 15/11/05
Keeping it Real, Ranger Style
Yivvits and MrBubble - THE podcast


\\\\\\MY OTHER SIG IS A BUMPER STICKER\\\\\\
DMDexter
Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:34 am
#67

Silly me.....I should read the bug lists.
TomedNor
Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:53 am
#68

Hmm. All told, I'd prefer bug fixes, then new Ranger stuff.

Right now, new bugs keep being added, and if they add new content without fixing bugs, the new content isn't going to work, and will break even further when they fix the bugs.

I think we're better off if we have a more stable platform for them to add new Ranger content to.


... I just wonder if they'll ever get to fixing Ranger....



---------------------------------------
See you around, and happy trails,
- Tomed Nor
*walks off into the forest*
Corbantis ~ Master Ranger, Master Rifleman, CorSec Ace Pilot
Phenix1050
Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:55 am
#69

I don't really understand the "stable platform" argument. I mean...what systems that affect Ranger are "unstable"? The harvesting system works, camping works, terrain negotiation works. Profession-specific weapons work...developing new stuff on any of those fronts wouldn't be subject to platform issues. We don't see that many bugs in Ranger. Camps not repelling, traps not working or giving insane XP, tracking is buggy, but that's about it. Most of what's wrong with us isn't bugs, but issues. and I just wish they'd understand that going by how many people play a profesion isn't always the greatest idea. Start fixing Ranger and more people will pick up Ranger. Make smugglers smuggle and there will be more smugglers. Fixing non-Jedi professions will bring people back to those professions AND bring people back to the game. In my mind, that's a better goal than removing a few minor annoyances that don't make people quit and that won't attract people back to a certain profession or back to the game if they're fixed.


Do you know anyone who quit because of the chat tab thing? I don't. and I don't know anyone who'll come back if/when they do fix it. But I know a lot of people who've left the game because of Ranger not working. and I know people that will come back to the game if/when to do fix it. To me then, the only bugs which should come before fixing professions are the game-breaking ones, or major issues. The experimentation bug. BE tissues not working, the experimentation bug with layers. The big things. Small bug are no big deal in my opinion.





PHE'NIX ANTARUS
BOTHAN ELDER RANGER
BEST LOOKINGSPY EVER--FOUNDER OF SATGWNIWNU
BURNING H*TPANTS SINCE 2003


This is horrible! I return to find my new title on the forum is "Jedi". What's up with that? If they wanted to confer that I'm rare and learned, they'd make my title RANGER. and then make it camo colored.
Owen-Lars
Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:05 am
#70

Well small bugs need fixing too as they irritate thecrap out of you and thats the worst kind of frustration. The kind that isnt one thing its lots of little things all together.


I just hope these bug fixes get sorted out fast so we can get onto addressing the lacking professions.





THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Rasst
Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:10 am
#71

Rangers breaks current game concept. This is the reason why profession cant be fixed.


What we have after CU? Combat and non-combat professions. Who is Ranger? He is a hunter.


To fix Ranger devs have to implementthree, not two, classes: combat, hunter, crafter, each is different from others. Like noncombat profession cant participate in combat, combat profession cant be good in hunting. Krayt Dragon must be muchharder (close to impossible) to kill for combat profession than NS elder or any other high level NPC. It is obvious that ranger will not have a chance to survive in (N)PC-combat in exchange.


This willbring balance to the force.


This is not very hard to implement since there is already a difference between NPCs and animals.Next step is to make artifical defences (from blades/lasers) and natural defences (from teeth/claws/spits). Then add to Scout natural defences, to ranger - natural group defences. After this changes rangers will take their right place of hunters and guides.


But this will not happen. Nobody will do anything to make advantage for two professions and disadvantage to more than ten. And this is the reason why we are waiting for revamp for 2 years: one profession vs. 30+, someplayers who roleplay rangervs. a whole bunch of other players who play the game.




Ra'sst Rassi - Elder Ranger
/t Sunrunner.Ra'sst /t Sunrunner.Rys /t Sunrunner.Rasst
Drop vendor: All purpose, Dantooine (-922 2182)
/t Eclipse.Ryss
AragornSoS
Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:30 am
#72

The flaw in your arguement is that no other profession in the game is gated in such a way. The only way I'd EVER agree with a change like this would be if every other combat or combat-related profession had ZERO ability to be a "hunter" then - and that's NEVER going to happen. Docs, CMs, SLs, CHs and all the marksman and brawler based professions would have to be limited to NPC-only combat if Rangers are going to be limited even more to creature-only, and that's just ridiculous.


And where did you see that non-combat characters can't participate in combat? I'm pretty sure anyone can pick up a CDEF or worst case bare-knuckle it, unarmed brawler style. Their ability to survive very long might be limited, but if they get in a CL80 group, and have a great doc there, andfolks that will helpthem out and "cover them"- it's quite possible for a Tailor, or a Chef, or whoever to engage in the combat side of the game. They aren't going to be "uber", they aren't going to last long on thier own, but they're not prohibited from doing so.


But I'll tell ya what - make it so that we Rangers are the only ones in the game who have the ability to kill a krayt or the Gorax or a GDK or a <insert high-end creature mob here>, and make us the ONLY ones who can loot the sweet drops (smuggler items I'd give for free to smugglers, anyone else pays), and I'll go along with this.


"Combat" is an activity in the game. Combat can be engaged in by MANY professions - including "hunters". "Hunter" is more of a profession if you will, and unfortunately Ranger seems to be stuck with this image of being entirely 100% creature-centric, largely due to skills that would/should/could work against NPCs and players being unfinished or broken. What you're proposing is actually much more complex a system than what we have and much more complex than we could expect to see implemented. Creatures do the same types of damage as weapons in game: those with ranged attacks are considered to do "energy" damage, and the majority of creatures simply do "kinetic" damage within melee range.


I'm sorry, but I'd be 100% wholly against moving Ranger even more into a pigeon-holed definition and skill set like you describe - we'd have almost 0 use and role in the larger game, no point in the GCW, and would continued to be gated (perhaps even more so) from 2/3 of the game content.



Dekiion G'Dulth
Colonel | Imperial Sector Rangers
"What others abandon, we protect."

Master Ranger / Master Rifleman / Storm Squadron Ace
Ranger_Rick
Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:24 pm
#73

It seems simple to me, our 'role,' if you will, is to hunt creatures. If/When/Should we get a revamp, I'd like to see it focused on fixing the current problems in our skillset and little else. Maybe some bonuses to hunting, perhaps our own little version of stealth, and even new features like some of the other great suggestions that have been mentioned in the past.

It might seem odd, but I'm a little woried that when we the magic wand does pass over us, we are going to see a huge influx of Rangers; Should SOE think the population will be apeased by adding more PvNPC/PvP abilities and allowing our PvE abilities to take a back seat. This would cause even more players to join the Ranger ranks, not to go explore the badlands of Lok, but to go kill Jedi and solo the newest adventure instance to get that super cool diaper of infinite health. This would continue until the big old Nerf Bat comes along and Whammo, we have an extensive feature set of skills, but now they are more broken then they were before leaving us with no PvE, PvNPC, or PvP.

Bottom line, I think the focus needs to be on fixing our current bugs/issues, and slight additions to make our features of outdoorsman more appealing.

My 2.5 cents.



Ayman Enscone -=Bumbling Ranger Extraordinaire=-
Cpl_Fisher
Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:11 pm
#74






Phenix1050 wrote:

bugs like krayts not dropping premium pears are not game-breaking. Having to re-join a chat channel is not game breaking. Having a respec window pop up every so often is not game breaking. All of these things are annoying, but they don't affect the ability for a profession to survive. Ranger bugs do mess up gameplay and your ability to survive.


Sadly, it isn't those types of Bugs that Tiggs has said are on the internal list of thigns to fix. It's the pearl drops, the chat tabs, things of that nature.


You guys say that you don't want ranger changes on a broken system, but tell me-- how does premium pearls not dropping relate to the fact that only one trap works when hunting solo? Sadly the things on Tiggs' list don't seem to be fixing major flaws in the game, but rather pleasing the whiners. Believe me, I'd like chat tabs fixed too....but not at the expense of Rangers.


Maybe I'm wrong and maybe they'll fix profession-breaking bugs. But that doesn't seem to be their focus right now.





Rangers, Squad leaders, and Commando's are all fubar atm. Trust me, I would love nothing more than to have commando fixed..... however, to my knowledge, the mess that SWG is now in is precisly becuase there have been no bug fixing publishes.



Member of the Rock alliance.
CO of DD 214
Member of EC-p8r militia
"Have faith in God, but believe in antimatter"
Bounty Hunters kill for credits, Commando's kill for the hell of it!
Balrozgul
Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:32 am
#75

It seems simple to me, our 'role,' if you will, is to hunt creatures. If/When/Should we get a revamp, I'd like to see it focused on fixing the current problems in our skillset and little else. Maybe some bonuses to hunting, perhaps our own little version of stealth, and even new features like some of the other great suggestions that have been mentioned in the past.



I dont agree that our role should be in creature hunting only. Is anyone without scout limited to NPC only? No, even the most npc-oriented combat profession BH is still perfectly able to hunt creatures. Problem with creature orientation is the versatility. Where is the gain from ranger vs scout? Sure we harvest more than anyone else, but so what? Since we are all harvesting from the pre-cu equivilent of a krayt dragon, it really doesn't take long at all for anyone with a small investment in scout to come up with a 100k stack of creature organics. Do you know how long that would have taken us before? There was a very good reason why we dominated the organics market then, but those days are over. Organics contracts have fallen through the floor and we need to find a new and distinct role if we are to continue to survive as a profession. Creature harvester is just too passe.



Bal Rozguul
(Proconsul of Sentinels of Banir)
Master Ranger ::: Master Pistoleer
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." : Qui-Gon Jinn
Phenix1050
Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:50 am
#76


I agree with the man who's an amalgamation of two dangerous creatures from LoTR.


There is not room in this game for a profession whose role is creatures-only. It simply doesn't work when you get down to it. Unless you divide the game up to make other professions less proficient at killing creatures, you can't make Ranger the best hunter. All combat professions work in all aspect of the game, and there's only so many bonuses you can give to Ranger. You'd have to add like +200 creature damage through the lines to differentiate us, and that just seems silly.


For the most part, the system is good. It makes sense that if you practice shooting man-sized targets that you could hit a Krayt. and it makes sense that a Krayt would take around the same damage as a veteran fighter wearing advanced armor. Of course the reverse is true too-- if I create a poison that can affect the movement ability of a Krayt, odds are that you'd be affected if you breathed it in.


Creature Hunting should be a possibility for Ranger, harvesting a means of survival (making camps, traps) and potentially of selling resources. The reason Rangers should harvest more is because they need more to make better camps. If they have surplus, of course they can sell it off. But organics selling should only be one of our potential functions, just like hunting NPC marks should be a POTENTIAL for Bounty Hunters, but not the only thing they can do.


I don't want to be a mobile harvestor, the player equivalent of a Flora Farm. I want to be a Ranger- adaptable and dangerous in the wild. Limiting us to creatures, or giving us any bonuses to creatures goes against that, and only hurts us. Getting PvP bonuses won't hurt PvE Rangers. But getting PvE bonuses WILL hurt PvP players, since we won't get PvP stuff if they think we're creature-only.


Message Edited by Phenix1050 on 08-02-2005 11:50 AM



PHE'NIX ANTARUS
BOTHAN ELDER RANGER
BEST LOOKINGSPY EVER--FOUNDER OF SATGWNIWNU
BURNING H*TPANTS SINCE 2003


This is horrible! I return to find my new title on the forum is "Jedi". What's up with that? If they wanted to confer that I'm rare and learned, they'd make my title RANGER. and then make it camo colored.
Calculus_Entropy
Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:59 am
#77

Alas, though I would LOVE to see us be creautre-centric, I can't see any way to balance such a role under the CU (or before, even). Defensive mods MAY be the path, but I am not sure it is. We might be able to stand toe to toe longer than other profs, but if we put out less damage than one template, we are back to square one. If we can last longer, while putting out the SAME damage as another template, we would be similar to Docs (who, through healing, can last quite a while in combat).

Phenix had a great point about needing to make other profs LESS efficient at creature combat. Right now, creature combat is based on Level and not profession. Therefore, a Level 80 Rifleman should have the same relative amount of success against a Level 80 critter that a Level 80 Pikeman would (I know this is debatable).

To maintain the balance, you can't make a level 80 Ranger better than a Level 80 Non-Ranger against creatures, as it would truely unbalance creature combat. On top of that, coding a creature (only) damage mod may be much harder than it seems. I am not positive, but I imagine NPC combat code is closely tied to creature combat code.

I reserve the right to completely and totally change my view on this subject.

Lol, does any of what I said make sense?



Calculus Entropy
Ranger Blue Glowie Emeritus
Garindan used /areatrack to find Han.
Phenix1050
Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:09 am
#78






Calculus_Entropy wrote:

Lol, does any of what I said make sense?




yup, the part where you said I made a good point. lol.


I think NPC combat is basically the same code as creature combat, except the target is coded as a creature, player, or NPC. based on that info, there are limited differences- the Ranger to-hit mod, the ability to use traps and a lot of animals can't equip a ranged weapon (btw you'll notice animals that do have a ranged attack "equip" a ranged weapon when they're attacking at range)...that's about it. Other than that, I see post-CU combat as "meatbags" with the skin of an NPC or a creature, and only a very minimal set of differences.





PHE'NIX ANTARUS
BOTHAN ELDER RANGER
BEST LOOKINGSPY EVER--FOUNDER OF SATGWNIWNU
BURNING H*TPANTS SINCE 2003


This is horrible! I return to find my new title on the forum is "Jedi". What's up with that? If they wanted to confer that I'm rare and learned, they'd make my title RANGER. and then make it camo colored.
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