Ranger Archive
Thread: Disbanding Camp Macro using /duel
BountyBlunter wrote:
My very simple scenario ::
Person A plays solidly at his profession for eight hours and gains four levels.
Person B plays for eight hours while AFK using a macro and gains four levels.
The town they are in has one trainer, who can only train one person per day in what they need.. Who has the right to use the trainer ? Person A... Or Person B ? Choose one or the other, and try to tell me why if you think it is person B.
I'm not trying to flame, I want to know a simple answer to a simple question.. If you think that it's not cheating someone out of something they worked for you should be able to tell me why, although...
" Dont let these people who love to flame get you... best way is just let them talk with themselfes untill they get bored... "
I fear I may end up talking to myself on this because so far no-one has actually picked up on the fact that this is what I wanted to know from the start of this thread, why do people who use macros deserve the same reward as people who don't ?
4 levels is four levels...the hard way or the easy way. your scenario is flawed, since there is no limit to training availability in this game. There is no "right" required to train. merely a requirement to meet a minimum exp level.
macros are not 'cheating' or 'exploits'. this game was designed to be a huge grind, and SOE gave us the ability to macro our way thru most tasks, menial or complex. Why must you whine at others for using tools you CHOOSE not to?
hawkbatleader1 wrote:
BountyBlunter wrote:
My very simple scenario ::
Person A plays solidly at his profession for eight hours and gains four levels.
Person B plays for eight hours while AFK using a macro and gains four levels.
The town they are in has one trainer, who can only train one person per day in what they need.. Who has the right to use the trainer ? Person A... Or Person B ? Choose one or the other, and try to tell me why if you think it is person B.
I'm not trying to flame, I want to know a simple answer to a simple question.. If you think that it's not cheating someone out of something they worked for you should be able to tell me why, although...
" Dont let these people who love to flame get you... best way is just let them talk with themselfes untill they get bored... "
I fear I may end up talking to myself on this because so far no-one has actually picked up on the fact that this is what I wanted to know from the start of this thread, why do people who use macros deserve the same reward as people who don't ?4 levels is four levels...the hard way or the easy way. your scenario is flawed, since there is no limit to training availability in this game. There is no "right" required to train. merely a requirement to meet a minimum exp level.
macros are not 'cheating' or 'exploits'. this game was designed to be a huge grind, and SOE gave us the ability to macro our way thru most tasks, menial or complex. Why must you whine at others for using tools you CHOOSE not to?
My scenario is not flawed, it is valid. I am not trying to pull this scenario from the SWG world, this is in general.. I want to know in any situation training available or not , why the person who uses a macro deserves the same reward as someone who doesn't and plays the way the game was intended to be played.
RPG's are a grind, they all are and all were and it is a normal part of RPG games where you are supposed to level up a character.. In this RPG you have been given a tool to circumvent that process giving you the choice of advancing your character without actually doing any work.
I am not whinning, I am asking a question.I choose not to use these tools in the same way as I choose not to use 'Godmode' or level cheats in other games.
So I will, I'll just strip out the bit that doesn't apply to make it even simpler and see if I can get a real response to my question this time.
My even simpler scenario ::
Person A works at his profession for eight hours and gains four levels.
Person B uses a macro while AFK for eight hours and gains four levels.
Who deserves the tag, skills and mods which come with the fourth level more ? the macro grinder or the real player ?
I would say both deserves it. If there is a macro language implemented in the game why should we not use it? Another discussion should be, why have a macro system at all....
All the whining about macro use in gaining skills is stupid in my opinion. Is that due to the fact that whiners are incompetent in macro use? Just a thought....
Elvizzard wrote:I would say both deserves it. If there is a macro language implemented in the game why should we not use it? Another discussion should be, why have a macro system at all....
All the whining about macro use in gaining skills is stupid in my opinion. Is that due to the fact that whiners are incompetent in macro use? Just a thought....
Considering I am capable of writing code in languages such as ASM, C, Perl, Visual Basic, Java, HTML, Javascript, PHP and SQL I doubt that the fact you think my 'whining' is due to the fact I cant code a looped set of simple commands when I know the syntax and structure of several low to high level programming languages is anywhere close to accurate. I think my gripe with macros is the fact it takes no real brain power to write them, and if you don't have the brain power someone will simply give you a macro they made anyway, and when you use them it requires no work to obtain a reward.
Your answer was one which I expected, in fact the only one I expected.. My answer to your response would be if both of them deserve the reward then the reward does not relate directly to time and effort in that the person playing the game is rewarded equally as the person who doesn't then in this case the solution to the Macro issue would be to strip out professional advancement all together as it does nothing other than waste one parties time.. So in effect you can strip out the XP system and just require the person to purchase the skills from a trainer using Cash..
Your answer wasn't really an answer though if you look at my question, I wanted a justification as to why using the system should yield the same results as not using it.. In regards to the discussion as to why there is a macro system, the only thing I can say is that there shouldn't be a macro system in this game, at all.
The reason I don't expect many responses is because..
- To answer Person A would mean you are stating that macro players have less right to the rewards than a normal players.
- To answer Person B would mean you need to prove that a person who does not work has equal or more right to rewards given to
someone who does work, which I believe to be impossible.
- To answer Both would mean you are still going to have to prove why a person who does not work has equal or more right to rewards given to someone who does work as if you answered B.
BountyBlunter wrote:
My very simple scenario ::
Person A plays solidly at his profession for eight hours and gains four levels.
Person B plays for eight hours while AFK using a macro and gains four levels.
The town they are in has one trainer, who can only train one person per day in what they need.. Who has the right to use the trainer ? Person A... Or Person B ? Choose one or the other, and try to tell me why if you think it is person B.
I would say the first person that got there. Person A would have probably walked for a bit.. setup camp to enjoy the scenery and then maybe used histracking skills toobserve durni.Person B would have pulled his speeder zipped to the trainer and gotten trained.
I personally don't think that just because A worked "harder" than B he deserves more (not that hard work is a bad thing). You can look at this from a different perspective and say A was more inefficient than B thus B being the more efficent one should get to be trained.
But those comments are just trying to address your question. But I pay my dues to play this game and so do other people, I think if they choose to do macros or whatever to get somewhere then so be it.
If you truely enjoyed the non-macro survival xp experience then you would be saying. "Maan I can't believed you AFK macored survival it was soo fun. Dude you totally missed out " But instead people are saying "Screw you I worked so much harder because I have this role playing perspective on the game. And you should respect it by working as hard as me" IMO, these people didn't enjoy the survival xp and it was a "grind" to them and are whining because they wanted to do it the hard way and they think everyone else should to. BLEH tools....
GKM wrote:
BountyBlunter wrote:
My very simple scenario ::
Person A plays solidly at his profession for eight hours and gains four levels.
Person B plays for eight hours while AFK using a macro and gains four levels.
The town they are in has one trainer, who can only train one person per day in what they need.. Who has the right to use the trainer ? Person A... Or Person B ? Choose one or the other, and try to tell me why if you think it is person B.I would say the first person that got there. Person A would have probably walked for a bit.. setup camp to enjoy the scenery and then maybe used his tracking skills to observe durni. Person B would have pulled his speeder zipped to the trainer and gotten trained.
I personally don't think that just because A worked "harder" than B he deserves more (not that hard work is a bad thing). You can look at this from a different perspective and say A was more inefficient than B thus B being the more efficent one should get to be trained.
But those comments are just trying to address your question. But I pay my dues to play this game and so do other people, I think if they choose to do macros or whatever to get somewhere then so be it.
If you truely enjoyed the non-macro survival xp experience then you would be saying. "Maan I can't believed you AFK macored survival it was soo fun. Dude you totally missed out
So your justification for people using macros systems as opposed to the normal in game system which every RPG game has is..
Because you pay the same as everyone else for this and the person using the macro is less efficient than the person not using it, furthermore the people not using the macro choose to do so and are tools because they would like other people to play their profession out to its natural conclusion without the use of looped AFK code.
And that is what you said.
Nice try but no cigar.. I told you , you can't come up with a decent way to justify it. I am not saying to you "Heey you missed out!" because you wouldn't care even if I did and you would still use the macro anyway, I could look back through any thread like this and find countless examples of where macro users tell people who say "You miss out on profession", yeah but it's a grind so why does this make the reverse any different ?... If i told you I enjoyed it, you would still macro it, thus I don't bother because it is not worth my time.
I suppose you could say I am whining because the hard way of doing things is the way an RPG works, time, work and reward.. Frankly I don't care that you macro your way to the top, other than the fact I want someone to say what I already know. You keep playing the game like this, I know there is nothing I can do about it.. I just wanted to see if anyone who used macro's to get to the top would have the guts to admit they are cheating based on the fact that some people work at their professions and some people just leave their PC running while at work or asleep.. Buut I knew that wouldn't happen, especially not on a public forum.
My Answer :: People who don't use macro's enjoy the reward of their profession and gain them in true RPG style, work, reward, adapt, improve. Macro users are just people who pay for an overpriced semi-interesting chat room and feel they have the right to strip whatever is left of the roleplay system in this game away as it is just wasting time, they don't deserve the rewards that a manual player would gain from reaching the top and they are less than the title that they sport while in game, much less..
BountyBlunter wrote:
GKM wrote:
BountyBlunter wrote:
My very simple scenario ::
Person A plays solidly at his profession for eight hours and gains four levels.
Person B plays for eight hours while AFK using a macro and gains four levels.
The town they are in has one trainer, who can only train one person per day in what they need.. Who has the right to use the trainer ? Person A... Or Person B ? Choose one or the other, and try to tell me why if you think it is person B.I would say the first person that got there. Person A would have probably walked for a bit.. setup camp to enjoy the scenery and then maybe used his tracking skills to observe durni. Person B would have pulled his speeder zipped to the trainer and gotten trained.
I personally don't think that just because A worked "harder" than B he deserves more (not that hard work is a bad thing). You can look at this from a different perspective and say A was more inefficient than B thus B being the more efficent one should get to be trained.
But those comments are just trying to address your question. But I pay my dues to play this game and so do other people, I think if they choose to do macros or whatever to get somewhere then so be it.
If you truely enjoyed the non-macro survival xp experience then you would be saying. "Maan I can't believed you AFK macored survival it was soo fun. Dude you totally missed out
So your justification for people using macros systems as opposed to the normal in game system which every RPG game has is..
Because you pay the same as everyone else for this and the person not using the macro is less efficient than the person using it, furthermore the people not using the macro choose to do so and are tools because they would like other people to play their profession out to its natural conclusion without the use of looped AFK code.
And that is what you said.
Nice try but no cigar.. I told you , you can't come up with a decent way to justify it. I am not saying to you "Heey you missed out!" because you wouldn't care even if I did and you would still use the macro anyway, I could look back through any thread like this and find countless examples of where macro users tell people who say "You miss out on profession", yeah but it's a grind so why does this make the reverse any different ?... If i told you I enjoyed it, you would still macro it, thus I don't bother because it is not worth my time.
I suppose you could say I am whining because the hard way of doing things is the way an RPG works, time, work and reward.. Frankly I don't care that you macro your way to the top, other than the fact I want someone to say what I already know. You keep playing the game like this, I know there is nothing I can do about it.. I just wanted to see if anyone who used macro's to get to the top would have the guts to admit they are cheating based on the fact that some people work at their professions and some people just leave their PC running while at work or asleep.. Buut I knew that wouldn't happen, especially not on a public forum.
My Answer :: People who don't use macro's enjoy the reward of their profession and gain them in true RPG style, work, reward, adapt, improve. Macro users are just people who pay for an overpriced semi-interesting chat room and feel they have the right to strip whatever is left of the roleplay system in this game away as it is just wasting time, they don't deserve the rewards that a manual player would gain from reaching the top and they are less than the title that they sport while in game, much less..
I want an edit button...
/sulk
Read that one instead.
Look, hands down, this is the single point that makes this case.
THE DEVS DID NOT MAKE A DISBAND COMMAND FOR CAMPS FOR A REASON- THEY NEVER INTENDED IT TO BE MACROED.
Read it carefully. There is no disband command, at all. Nada. None. You can argue until the cows come home about macroing and skill gain and all that stuff, but fact is the devs put in a system where tasks can be macoed to save time- and they simply did not grant that ability to camping EXP. It was never meant to be grinded- it was meant to be fun.
Using the duel command to disband camps is an exploit. Plain and simple. It can't possibly be any other way.
Will that keep hologrinders and twinks from disrespecting our profession? No, its pretty much in their nature; that being that they took a profession not because of what it meant, but because of what it does for them. And that, my friends, is the truth.
Enbow wrote:Look, hands down, this is the single point that makes this case.
THE DEVS DID NOT MAKE A DISBAND COMMAND FOR CAMPS FOR A REASON- THEY NEVER INTENDED IT TO BE MACROED.
Read it carefully. There is no disband command, at all. Nada. None. You can argue until the cows come home about macroing and skill gain and all that stuff, but fact is the devs put in a system where tasks can be macoed to save time- and they simply did not grant that ability to camping EXP. It was never meant to be grinded- it was meant to be fun.
Using the duel command to disband camps is an exploit. Plain and simple. It can't possibly be any other way.
Will that keep hologrinders and twinks from disrespecting our profession? No, its pretty much in their nature; that being that they took a profession not because of what it meant, but because of what it does for them. And that, my friends, is the truth.
I have to agree, Macro Vs Manual is a different discussion, and one which I think macro users can't win so I will leave that for now and probably drag it up to annoy people at a later date if I see other macro users spouting they are the gods of the gaming/coding world because they managed to copy a macro from someone, plus I got bored repeating myself.
In regards to camping/survival XP not being designed for macro use by the devs I agree again, and also would like to state that although it is possible in some cases to macro grind XP for a profession I don't believe this is what macro's were intended for at all, and if they were that system didnt get the input of a real gamer before they added it in..
As far as the hologrinder and twinks go, I agree again.. In conclusion.. I agree with everything you said.
/cheer
See macro beasts it's not so hard to get me to agree, you just have to make sense and have a valid point.
All i read are little **edit** girls "wha wha wha, im old sk00l leet rang3r and i took months to get my camping exp." S T F U.
This guy is trying to help hologrinders or people who dont want to sit in a camp for weeks. And all you panzees can do is flame him.
Pathetic.
Its not an exploit btw, its a smart way to use the macro system. Its like saying AFK dancing thru dancer is cheating and exploiting,
You guys make me sick.
If we make you sick, don't come back. ty.
sorry for having pride in what I do.
The Devs wouldnt have made camps disband after combat was initiated if this was an "exploit."
/shakes head in disbelief
SweetShotArch wrote:
All i read are little **edit** girls "wha wha wha, im old sk00l leet rang3r and i took months to get my camping exp." S T F U.
The point that I have been trying to make over and over and over and over again is that it doesn't take you months to get enough camping xp to master ranger if you just use the camps. I mean, come on - I don't think it took anyone here (even us old sk00l leet rang3r -- it's 01d sk0ol l337 rang3r, btw) "months" to master the survival tree. It took me three weeks at most (if that), and I'm pretty sure that I was so newback then that I did it the slowest possible way.
As for the exploit issue - those of us who consider this an exploit argue that
- the devs clearly did not intend that camps should be disbanded using a macro. If they had, they would have included a /command to do so.
- This macro (and the 12-dozen other ones out there) clearlycircumventsthis restriction by entering into combat for the sole purpose of disbanding the camp. That is, combat is not entered forits ownsake (ie., actually fighting), but for the sake of disbanding the camp via a macro.
- Since combat is entered from a macro for the sake of doing something that was not meant to bedone from a macro, it's an exploit.
Now, could you please spell out the reasoning behind your 'not an exploit' argument?
Iseult
Master Ranger/ Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin