Ranger Archive
Thread: Disbanding Camp Macro using /duel
Iseult wrote:
Mac_Leod wrote:
Enbow wrote:
Macros were placed to make repeated tasks less dull- not to master professions over night while you sleep- which is exactly what this exploit provides.
If that's true, then what about all of the crafting professions? Almost all the crafters I've seen have afk macroed their way to master.
Unless something has changed in the past few weeks, it is not possible to AFK grind a crafting profession without the help of a third-party macro program,
Actually, it is. The trick is getting your mouse to execute a repetitive mouseclick. And as such, since this is an accessibility tool, and not a macro or scripting tool, it is not covered by the EULA's restrictions.
which (I think at least) are against the EULA. If you are not using one of these programs, you can script your crafting tool to do almost everything except add the resources. This means that you have to be present to double-click the resources for every item you make.
Yes - Sony has said that macroing is acceptable (that is, using the in-game macroing system), but they have not, as of yet, included a /command to disband the camp. We can take this one of two ways -- either it is an oversight on the part of the devs (and this could be the case), or they don't want people to disband campsprogramatically. If the latter is the case,then you are using a macro to circumvent an aspect of game design to your own advantage,and it is an exploit.
And no, it won't take you a month to grind out the survival tree. Again, all you have to do is use the camps (see above). I did it without a big PA behind me, and tons of others have done it as well.
But the bottom line is this - the thing that makes you a true master ranger is not the title that you get after climbing the 4 trees, it's your experience with the profession.
As an Ex Master Ranger, who did it in the old days before macros and what not, I have to disagree with you here. What makes you a master ranger is training the final box. (for ego's sake, I also threw a few camps, made a few camo kits, etc, to feel like I had "arrived") Nowhere in the game manual does it describe what a TRUE master ranger is. I assume when SOE allows me to wear the title, it's not lieing to me.
You don't get this experience by riding around dathomir mask-scented to get easy scouting xp, and you don't get this experience trapping a faamba for six hours straight, and you don't get this experience macro-camping with an alt (or for that matter, camped with sixteen other lee7 do0ds in front of the Theed bridges). Ranger is a very functional profession from start-to-finish,
Again, I disagree. Ranger was borked when I started it, and the waste of skill points vs its current functionality indicate that it is still borked. Traps are no more effective at the ranger level then at scout, camo is worthless, tracking is horrid, camps we werepromised never made it in game, nordid the trapping and tracking overhauls. the only real benefit is in the harvesting ability. 29 points of scout gets me about half as effective at harvesting as 130+ points gets me as a master ranger. something doesn't equate there. Spend the 29 points. don't waste the rest.
so why rush through it if your intention is to be a master ranger?
To get thru it and move on with his in-game life?
Don't get me wrong. I came into this game wanting to be a ranger. Dropped it like a hot potato after waiting patiently for months for the promised boosts to the classes effectiveness. haven't looked back since. Been much happier.
If they would finish a complete overhaul, i'd give it another shot. and i'd macro the camping exp. Why? because calling one camp is no more difficult than another. Takes more resources, and the exp max goes up...wow. not worth the time or effort.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
Erryk wrote:
...
no it's not any suprise at all honestly. I wholeheartedly believe that a dedicated grouping player should have an easier time w/ survival xp. However, because of my playstyle, camping should not be IMPOSSIBLE for me. I'm afraid sitting in a camp and twiddling my thumbs just to experience the pure joy of sitting in a camp and twiddling my thumbs just isn't quite going to do it for me. shocking i know.
But seriously - the point of my first message is that if you just use the camps, survival xp comes in pretty fast. I'm pretty much a solo player anymore and I've maxxed it, and I was purely a solo player when I mastered ranger, and it didn't take me any longer to finish the survival tree. Why is it taking you so long to get survival xp? I suppose if you really do think camps are completely useless, then it might, but what I've been trying to tell you (and maybe not as politely as I could have) is that camps are semi-useful, and that if you approach the whole survival tree as something that can help you out rather than hinder your two-day progress towards master ranger, it goes a lot faster.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
Message Edited by Iseult on 04-20-2004 12:29 PM
Kryibacca
Iseult wrote:
hawkbatleader1 wrote:
Unless something has changed in the past few weeks, it is not possible to AFK grind a crafting profession without the help of a third-party macro program,
Actually, it is. The trick is getting your mouse to execute a repetitive mouseclick. And as such, since this is an accessibility tool, and not a macro or scripting tool, it is not covered by the EULA's restrictions.
Again, I disagree. Ranger was borked when I started it, and the waste of skill points vs its current functionality indicate that it is still borked. Traps are no more effective at the ranger level then at scout, camo is worthless, tracking is horrid, camps we werepromised never made it in game, nordid the trapping and tracking overhauls. the only real benefit is in the harvesting ability. 29 points of scout gets me about half as effective at harvesting as 130+ points gets me as a master ranger. something doesn't equate there. Spend the 29 points. don't waste the rest.
Kryibacca
Hmmm... the last time I checked, AFK meant, "away from the keyboard" - you can program your mouse to send a double-click instead of a single-click, but you still have to be there to press the button. Now, whether you are really in the game is debatable, but there is not way to leave your computer crafting overnight while you sleep without the use of a third-party macro program -- which is what the macro posted above accomplishes. A small point, but a valid one nonetheless.
Again, there are pc Accessibility tools that can execute a timed double click. It is possible, without any third party macro/scripting/mouse pattern capture programs
OK - you've clearly given up on the profession, but why do you need to come here to tell us this? I mean, it's not like what you're saying is entirely original or even halfway thought out. You gave up ranger, great -- good for you. A lot of us haven't, and we've actually figured out how to make it a worthwhile profession.But honestly, you'vegiven up master ranger, you don't use it, and that really diminishes any authority that you might claim to have on the issue, especially when people are arguing, as I am, that you really only 'master' a profession by keeping it for a long time and figuring out how to use it most effectively. I mean, anybody with an alt account can master any profession in two-three days (including this one), but does that really qualify them as 'masters' of the profession in anything but name only?I would say no.
I must apologize....I Mastered ranger back before the exp changes, and the trapping exploits, and the ease of mastering the class was increased. I started a scout, became a ranger, and did it the hard way. I mastered this proffession before you even logged into the game. However, i am apologizing to your righteous highness, since you are obviously a better master ranger than I ever was, since you stuck with it, and I gave it up after 2 months of tedious repetitious grinding, and 3 months of tying up my skill points after mastery on this class.
But again, I ask this question-- ifso many of you think that ranger is so useless, then why are so many of you so intent on macro'ing up to master ranger as quickly and apparently as effortlessly as possible?
Hear about something called jedi? for many players this is their endgame and access to high level content and game play. Many players work towards that goal... If they come up with a creative macro that has not been utilized in game previously, without using third party products to facilitate this, more power to them.
Lay off the guy...and kindly drop your purist righteous attitude at home.
You are no more important to the community than any other player... As a matter of fact, the creator of the macro is contributing and helping others, while you sit back and condemn them. I think he has contributed more to the community than you have...
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
.
hawkbatleader1 wrote:
I must apologize....I Mastered ranger back before the exp changes, and the trapping exploits, and the ease of mastering the class was increased. I started a scout, became a ranger, and did it the hard way. I mastered this proffession before you even logged into the game. However, i am apologizing to your righteous highness, since you are obviously a better master ranger than I ever was, since you stuck with it, and I gave it up after 2 months of tedious repetitious grinding, and 3 months of tying up my skill points after mastery on this class.
...
You are no more important to the community than any other player... As a matter of fact, the creator of the macro is contributing and helping others, while you sit back and condemn them. I think he has contributed more to the community than you have...
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
Iseult wrote:
hawkbatleader1 wrote:
I must apologize....I Mastered ranger back before the exp changes, and the trapping exploits, and the ease of mastering the class was increased. I started a scout, became a ranger, and did it the hard way. I mastered this proffession before you even logged into the game. However, i am apologizing to your righteous highness, since you are obviously a better master ranger than I ever was, since you stuck with it, and I gave it up after 2 months of tedious repetitious grinding, and 3 months of tying up my skill points after mastery on this class.
...
You are no more important to the community than any other player... As a matter of fact, the creator of the macro is contributing and helping others, while you sit back and condemn them. I think he has contributed more to the community than you have...
Ummm... you actually mastered ranger on 9/26/2003, which would have been about 16 days, give or take a few, after I started playing the game, not three months (see http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ranger&message.id=17265).
My bad...misapproximated the date.
I'm not sure how long it took me to master ranger - I'm thinking late Oct., but if memory serves, I maybe had the advantage of having crafting camps for XP, but it sounds like we pretty much mastered ranger the same way, though I never considered it a "grind" or "tedious," and I still don't.
Now, where have I ever claimed to be more important to the community than any other player?
Your righteous attitude declaring what makes someone a master ranger gives the impression that you thing you are better than others...
To me, the underlying assumption behind each of the twelve-dozen or so over-complicated and equally-as-unnecessary camping macros thatI've seenposted to this forum and the scout forums is the assumption that ranger/scout is useless and not worth the skill points or apparentlyeven what little effort there is to mastereither profession. Ranger and scoutare useless, so that justifies trapping the same creature 8 billion times to finish trapping, scooting around Dath. maskscented, and, now, dueling some alt. character to force your camps to disband and hence more easily grind survival xp, etc....
So, when I speak out about the latest and greatest macroing scheme, what I am really speaking out against is the underlying assumption, which is that ranger (or significant parts of it) is a useless profession. Of course, a lot of you (even people who are still rangers), apparently accept this assumption as gospel, but I don't, and I'm sick as hell of reading it posted here day in and day out, esp. when it comes from people who have clearly given up the profession (or are at most two-weeks from doing so) and who apparently need to justify their doing so on a weekly basis, if not daily, basis.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that our profession, like every other profession in this game, has its obvious and not-so-obvious shortcomings, but I'm really, really sick of reading post after post about how the profession doesn't work or is hopelessly borked from people who have either completely given up on it or who have ground their way through it with as little effort as possible and therefore lack the experience to back up such a claim.
I did it the hard way, stuck with it till mid december, and make that declaration after giving up on the dev's promises to fix the broken traps, broken camps, broken camo kits. Apparently they are still broken. Apparently the promise of advanced ranger traps, camps that actually repell aggros, and allow hunting from within a camp for safety have come to naught...what, 7 months or so later? Has Camo actually been fixed so that it's more effective than Mask Scent? Does it now protect you from aggro NPC's? Are all the components available yet? Has there been ANY indication that rangers will ever be worth the complete load of skill points it takes to master it? Is the extra bonus to harvesting really worth close to 100 extra skill points?
Case in point here - I've pointed out way after way that our camps are actually useful, but have any of you countered my examples with any objection that is more significant than "well, I don't use them, so they are not useful to me," which is, at best, completely circular. No, camps don't make you uber, but when you're in a tight spot, they can sometimes make the difference between continuing the hunt or, say, going back into the city and to get your wounds healed or to buy a weapon repair kit, etc.... Now, it seems to me that if you guys really cared for the profession (and presumably the community as well), you would spendmore time figuring out how best to use our technologies and then engaging the devs in discussions based on these findingsthan devising and championing over-complicated schemes to avoid using the things that are supposed to most define our profession.
Reasons camps are useless:
Everyone can now pull droids, pets, and vehicles in the wild. A 15 second delay is not worth the resources required to pull a camp out.
Docs are able to pull droids in the wild, giving them the ability to buff and heal without a camp, at a level higher than a med center (110) while I believe a top level ranger camp is only 95.
Tka's can heal their own wounds without a camp.
The supposed aggro repelling properties of advanced camps are still broken.
Dancers/musicians still can't heal battle fatigue in a camp, even masters in the High tech field base.
Squad leaders still can't build reinforcements for a camp to allow a hunt to occur from within a fortified camp.
Dancers/musicians can't build modular stage attachments allowing bf healing in a camp.
Doc's are actually limited in healing in a camp, since the camp has been proven to decrease their level of healing compared to a 110 med droid.
Yes...in a pinch camps can help a newbie out. but even a multiple master of combat and medic professions can still pull a camp should they choose for only 15 skill points
I did pursue the advancement and improvement of the ranger class...for a long time. I gave up when it became apparent that the devs had no plans to ever pursue the improvement of the class.
I mean, honestly, what empowers the seemingly endless streams of whining and griping and complaining that I read here and on the other forums -- how can you guys feel so entitled when you all are apparently unwilling to puteven alittle constructive effort into the profession?
Was that enough info to assure you that I am not one of the hologrinders who didn't care about the profession? IT WAS MY FIRST CHOICE. I GOT THERE, AND FOUGHT THE GOOD FIGHT. I GAVE UP ONLY AFTER MONTHS OF FIGHTING, WHEN IT BECAME CLEAR THAT RANGER (WHICH HAD GOTTEN A SLIGHT REVAMP) WAS AS FIXED AS THE DEV'S EVER INTENDED IT TO BE.
When I decided to move on to more effectiveness in combat, and more freedom, I gave up ranger. It is but a shadow of the class it could be, and unfortunately, I don't think it will ever live up to the expectations that the community has for it, either the Antarian model, or the Outdoorsman model, will never come to fruition, at least not in a way that justifies the huge amount of skill points that it takes up. Doctors take the same exact skill points... yet when was the last time a group asked you along on a hunt for something other than Krayts or Gorax, or when a chef or doctor needs specific meat or an armorsmith needs specific hide? Those are the only times a ranger is useful. and a scout spending 29 points, and using proper food buffs, is effective enough to make those points well spent.
Now...ask yourself...could a group survive with a ranger along any better than with a doctor along? Not a chance. It's not even a close call.
For those and many other reasons, I hereby proclaim the ranger profession completely and utterly borked. Is there still hope? yes... but I wouldn't spend any more time waiting for it (while gating my self from professions that allow me to experience advanced content in the game)
Let the dev's do something more than TH's post recently. I want to see concrete implementation of new skills and abilities, camps, and combat or support affinities that make ranger's especially useful. When that happens, i'll come back. And i'll use every macro possible to make the climb back to the top as easy as possible.
Kryibacca
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
hawkbatleader1 wrote:
Unless something has changed in the past few weeks, it is not possible to AFK grind a crafting profession without the help of a third-party macro program,
Actually, it is. The trick is getting your mouse to execute a repetitive mouseclick. And as such, since this is an accessibility tool, and not a macro or scripting tool, it is not covered by the EULA's restrictions.
Again, I disagree. Ranger was borked when I started it, and the waste of skill points vs its current functionality indicate that it is still borked. Traps are no more effective at the ranger level then at scout, camo is worthless, tracking is horrid, camps we werepromised never made it in game, nordid the trapping and tracking overhauls. the only real benefit is in the harvesting ability. 29 points of scout gets me about half as effective at harvesting as 130+ points gets me as a master ranger. something doesn't equate there. Spend the 29 points. don't waste the rest.
Kryibacca
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
oh man why people like to flame so much?? damn some seem just to try to pick up figths everywhere... what you get form that.
Yes soe of you are rangers by heart and all that bul**edit** cause you love the outdoors and **edit**( well you woudnt be plaing this much if that was so... )... some of us have to holo grind it... dont get piss at the holo grinders... get pis at the holo path that force us to do it... i dont like it at all... not cause i think is a dishonor to the profeison like some child said here (**edit** you gota be too nerd to try to disput about how honorable is to get camping exp with this macro); but cause i think is boring... is just not my thing.
I wander what dirve this boys to pick up figths everywhere.... are they bully in school and try to get their represe feelings here by starting figths in a virtual world when nothing is really going to happen? I mean comon take it easy... we here to have funn.... not to be lookign all the time to see with who we can figth with for some really really REALLY stupit reason. I just couldnt believe someone actualy flames this guy for this macro.
Man this macro was a great help.... thansk a lot.
Dont let these people who love to flame get you... best way is just let them talk with themselfes untill they get bored...
Benkos Nagho
Person A plays solidly at his profession for eight hours and gains four levels.
Person B plays for eight hours while AFK using a macro and gains four levels.
The town they are in has one trainer, who can only train one person per day in what they need.. Who has the right to use the trainer ? Person A... Or Person B ? Choose one or the other, and try to tell me why if you think it is person B.
I'm not trying to flame, I want to know a simple answer to a simple question.. If you think that it's not cheating someone out of something they worked for you should be able to tell me why, although...
" Dont let these people who love to flame get you... best way is just let them talk with themselfes untill they get bored... "
I fear I may end up talking to myself on this because so far no-one has actually picked up on the fact that this is what I wanted to know from the start of this thread, why do people who use macros deserve the same reward as people who don't ?