Ranger Archive
Thread: So we've been ignored on harvesting. What now?
darmokVtS
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:12 pm
#53
Owen-Lars wrote:Are you taking into accout that changes take time?Yes this change has gone live which is unfortunate, but that doesnt mean its over. Ive been pushing for changing it ever since they announced the revision and i think we have definatly made progress. As for when the change hit live, i dont know, there is alot on the devs plates atm and many many bugs and issues being addressed with the GCW changes so efforts would be split between working on these issues.
Well, maybe at least we (well, "you" actually, the plural "you" though as I adress all those who wanted a professionspecific aspect in this) now no longer try to get some extra stuff squeezed into a publish (and the part that now bothers us *IS* extra stuff compared to the original version) that is focused on such a fundamental game mechanic
. We see that nothing good comes from such an attempt and now we have to live with a very unsatisfying situation for an unknown amount of time (and due to the facts you stated yourself it's not rocketscience to figure out that this amount of time will probably be not a small amount of time).
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:16 pm
#54
DarmokVTS Wrote:
"and due to the facts you stated yourself it's not rocketscience to figure out that this amount of time will probably be not a small amount of time"
Not at all mate It could come tommorow for all i know. I was just highlighting a possible reason for why this issue hasnt been adressed alreay. Know what i mean?
It could come tommorow for all i know. I was just highlighting a possible reason for why this issue hasnt been adressed alreay. Know what i mean?
WittyNewt
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:31 pm
#55
Can someone just clarify something for me regarding this patch? As I don't understand how a ranger 0040 can out harvest a master ranger with my reading of the the patch notes.
I did not do any testing on TC so I am basing this all on my reading of the patch notes.
Harvesting / Resources
- There will no longer be a penalty to harvesting while in a group. Instead, there will now be a 20% harvesting bonus if you are in a group and at least one group member is within 64m of you when you harvest. If there is a Ranger present in your group and is within 64m of you, the group harvesting bonus will be 30% for you when you harvest. If there is a Master Ranger present in your group and is within 64m of you, the group harvesting bonus will be 40%.
To me this says that when I am grouped I will provide every grouped member including myself with a 40% bonus. Given that I get an extra +10 at master in harvesting compared to a ranger 0040 then this will mean that I will harvest a little more than them since I will have 100 harvesting x 1.4 and they will have 90 harvesting x 1.4.
Since it is a percentage on top of skill level taht is being applied as well then the bonus someone receives is also related to their skill level which is as it should be.
If this is correct then I don't have a big issue with this patch.
The generic issue I have and have always had being a master ranger is the tiny increase I get from 0040 to master - 10%. This has not changed and is something I hope gets fixed in the CURB - maybe sooner
Moeru - Master Ranger and TKA and general wanderer in the wilds, Farstar
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:35 pm
#56
Basically at this time the ranger isnt considered part of the group (no idea how they came to this conclussion) so doesnt get the 40% group bonus, just the 30%. As the advantage that master rangers have over ranger 0040 is so small this 20% difference means that the stacker can harvest more than us.
This is being worked on atm and fixed. The devs have known for a while the set up is wrong (presented in a few reports) but the recent addition of test data showing how damaging this set up is means we have a stronger base to get harvesting and group harvesting changed.
Basically if everything goes right, you should see the changes you highlighted above as the true set up.
Edit: 20% changed to 30%
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 02-24-2005 08:13 PM
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:12 pm
#57
Hehe paks,
Think she decided to correct me because i was asking and saying thanks for the changes all the time heh. Just i was saying thanks for the good set up which never got implemented and instead we got this
Hopefully though all will be straightened out soon though
Ehope
Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:22 pm
#58
No grouping for me unless it's with myself, a very trusting friend or a non-scout.
*tries to reach the knife comming out of her back*
DesktopSaki
Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:58 pm
#59
SOEtyrant wrote:
We will get this fixed.
Gordon Walton
Sony Online Entertainment
They know the numbers are buggy. They know it hurts the Rangers as is. Why, then, did they put it in live to start with?
There should be no bonuses, no penalties. But now that it's in live, it'll never come out, because the 98% of the game this is a boon too won't care it damages our profession.
We have so little left. So many empty promises have been made. And now a group of three 0040 scout combat stackerswill be able to outharvest me, hour per hour.
I've never been so disappointed in SOE. I don't think I've ever even been mad at them before, but I am now.
DesktopSaki
Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:06 pm
#60
FultonMeigs wrote:
I think Bethya has done us all a profound dis-service in representing the Ranger community as little more than a whiny bunch of uber-looter wantabes. The very thingwhich we workso very hardas a coummunity to avoid. I'm sorry, in this case, to see a Ranger get first response to a patch update.
The very idea thatwhat we as community are now on the record as labeling this very positive, very significant improvement in our ability to interact with group, provide support, and increase our own harvest, as "idiocy" and "a bug" I suspect has greatly undone much of the excellent work Owen and Cal(supported by an amazing core group of Rangers) have done on our behalf. We are fortune in the extreme (again I suspect because of the professional, mature, work done and presented on our behalf by the O & C) that Thunderheart didn't just tell us to stick a Krettle up our a$$.
Could the harvesting upgraded be made more favorable to Master Rangers? Yes. Would I also like to have a Ranger-only-lighsaber-auto-harvesting-stealth-NPC-trap-of-death? You bet'ya. But this upgrade is 90% good for everybody. If we have suggestions on how to cover that last 10% I feel that we have failed (at least are failing) to present our opinions to SOE in a manner that is likely to engender a positive response.
I appreciate that you were well spoken, but I had to low-star you here because of two things. One, she wasn't whining. She was also very well spoken. But mostly, two, you failed to realize that it's not fair to damage one profession to fix something that's not broken.
The primary thing that needed changing was to remove the grouping penalty. The other thing was to make Rangers more attractive group members. However, the way they did it just shifts the penalty and leaves many rangers disinclined to group.
I'm glad someone can see it in a positive light, but even with 90% of the populace benefitting where they wouldn't before, it's still not enough good to balance out the harm.
Memnoch127
Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:47 am
#61
ouch guys the Devs give Rangers some love and make grouping more important and all of you are expressing more negativity than you can shake a stick at.
If i was a piece loveing hippy i think i woulda had a heart attack reading some of this bad vibes indeed.
All i gotta say is if this can have any effect on the economy in a positive way (200 CPU meat anyone??) and bring down this silly prices like they did with krayt pearls i say good
Cheaper Ranger/scout products means cheaper doc and Food and armor products which mean newer people who join the game wont be so overwhelmed with prices and the game might just make it into a few years running.
Yes i know Rangers might take a price cut but geez put the Greed away and think about what is best for the game.
WittyNewt
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:02 am
#62
Thank you Owen
Moeru - Master Ranger and TKA and general wanderer in the wilds, Farstar
frightwig
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:06 am
#63
WittyNewt wrote:Can someone just clarify something for me regarding this patch? As I don't understand how a ranger 0040 can out harvest a master ranger with my reading of the the patch notes.
In a situation where a master ranger is grouped with an 0040 ranger (but with no other master ranger present in the group).
Master ranger receives +30% bonus (ranger in group bonus)
0040 ranger receives +40% bonus (MR in group bonus)
0040 ranger receives 10% extra bonus in his harvesting rates. This issue however, is that ungrouped, the difference between what an 0040 ranger can harvest and a master ranger can harvest, is less than 10%. That's how this group situation causes the 0040 ranger to outharvest the master ranger who is in his own group.
There are several other imbalance issues as it stands now, but I'm sure it will be tweaked for the best.
frightwig
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:09 am
#64
Owen-Lars wrote:Basically at this time the ranger isnt considered part of the group (no idea how they came to this conclussion) so doesnt get the 40% group bonus, jus the 20%. As the advantage that master rangers have over ranger 0040 is so small this 20% difference means that the stacker can harvest more than us.This is being worked on atm and fixed. The devs have known for a while the set up is wrong (presented in a few reports) but the recent addition of test data showing how damaging this set up is means we have a stronger base to get harvesting and group harvesting changed.Basically if everything goes right, you should see the changes you highlighted above as the true set up.
Hate to correct you Thortac
But with a 0040 ranger, and a master ranger grouped - the master ranger receives 30% bonus, not 40%. But still, even with 30% bonus for the master ranger having another ranger in his group, he still gets outharvested by the 0040 ranger. (see last post)
I agree though, this is as good of a reason as any to get the harvest formula looked at.
Owen-Lars
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:12 am
#65
Oh yeah sorry hehe. I meant that in a group if everyone else is recieving the 40% the ranger (assuming no other rangers are in group) would recieve 20%. Got my wires crossed Cheers
Cheers