Ranger Archive
Thread: So we've been ignored on harvesting. What now?
FultonMeigs
Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:55 am
#40
DaveG wrote:
When you say all that, are you taking into account the extreme sense of frustration felt by everybody? Are you taking into account that the system as published is unbalanced? Are you taking into account that many rangers spent a lot of time collecting data to test the system? Are you taking into account that SOE announced that the system would be published an seemingly ignored all that testing (rather than saying "ok we won't publish until we fix these issues")? Are you taking into account that no matter how much work the correspondants have done the devs do not give any outward appearence of taking notice, and the effect this has on the community? Are you even taking into account the amount of time and I expect, restraint that whent into Bethya's post?
Yes
In fact, I'd go so far as to say Bethya's post got the most publicly and openly positive response from a SOE person to any ranger. Given that it was a single sentence shows how uncommunicative to the general player base they are.
Message Edited by DaveG on 02-24-2005 05:49 PM
Calculus_Entropy
Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:56 am
#41
You know Dave, you talk about how mistreated you are, and how nobody listens to your side, then you go and treat other people the same way....hmmmm...
DaveG wrote:
When you say all that, are you taking into account the extreme sense of frustration felt by everybody? Are you taking into account the not everybody feels this extremem sense of frustration?Are you taking into account that the system as published is unbalanced? Are you taking into account that not everyone feels this way? Are you taking into account that many rangers spent a lot of time collecting data to test the system? Are you taking into account the the RAngers that collected that data are generally FOR this change? Are you taking into account that SOE announced that the system would be published an seemingly ignored all that testing (rather than saying "ok we won't publish until we fix these issues")? Are you taking into account that devs can fix the small discrepancy that there is (allowing a Traking 4 Ranger to outharvest a Master Ranger) via a hotfix? Are you taking into account that no matter how much work the correspondants have done the devs do not give any outward appearence of taking notice, and the effect this has on the community? Are you taking into account the devs said, directly, that this change is not for Rangers (and therefore does not need our approval)? Are you even taking into account the amount of time and I expect, restraint that whent into Bethya's post?
Sinkuu
Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:59 am
#42
ok, why is everyone calling me virginia, and carrying on about santa?
my god, it might take longer than we wanted... but it could still turn out ok.... /faint
DaveG
Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:34 am
#43
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
You know Dave, you talk about how mistreated you are, and how nobody listens to your side, then you go and treat other people the same way....hmmmm...
Calc,
How can you compare a set of question to a set of blatent flames?
As for "how nobody listens to your side", please don't misrepresent me. I have never said that, in fact quite the opposite given the number of people agreeing with me.
Please don't continue the climate of animosity that came out in that last thread.
DaveG
Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:41 am
#44
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
DaveG wrote:
When you say all that, are you taking into account the extreme sense of frustration felt by everybody? Are you taking into account the not everybody feels this extremem sense of frustration? There are enough for it to be an issue, I don't think anyone can deny that.Are you taking into account that the system as published is unbalanced? Are you taking into account that not everyone feels this way? There are enough for it to be an issue, I don't think anyone can deny that.Are you taking into account that many rangers spent a lot of time collecting data to test the system? Are you taking into account the the RAngers that collected that data are generally FOR this change? That is irrelavent, those rangers spent a lot of time testing at Tiggs request. That's all the point I was making,Are you taking into account that SOE announced that the system would be published an seemingly ignored all that testing (rather than saying "ok we won't publish until we fix these issues")? Are you taking into account that devs can fix the small discrepancy that there is (allowing a Traking 4 Ranger to outharvest a Master Ranger) via a hotfix? Yes, and devs had the information they needed before they published, there wasn't any need to put it on the hotfix list.Are you taking into account that no matter how much work the correspondants have done the devs do not give any outward appearence of taking notice, and the effect this has on the community? Are you taking into account the devs said, directly, that this change is not for Rangers (and therefore does not need our approval)? Again, that's nothing to do with this. If you're fixed on the view I was supporting (0P0B) then you should also notice that neither was it a pro-ranger position. Are you even taking into account the amount of time and I expect, restraint that whent into Bethya's post?
You counter questions all seem to be focused around back-biting me for the opinoin I had, when nothing I said in response to the post about Bethya's complaint were anything to do with my (and others) opinion on the particulars of the harvesting system. It was in fact a post to highlight the sensitivies and sympathies that should be taken into account for how rangers feel today.
I'll say again, please drop this animosity you and others have built up for me. I for one am sick it, nor will I tollerate it.
Message Edited by DaveG on 02-24-2005 06:42 PM
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:41 am
#45
I dont realy see it as a flame, its simply highlighting what you said or atleast hinted at either the devs not taking notice or not providing feedback directly.
I mean your post was more of a flame by highlighting so many points in an aparent sarcasting way (atleast to me anyway) but lets not go down that road again, everyone knows the crack.
They (the devs) do listen, they do know the problems and they are working on getting it fixed.
DaveG
Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:49 am
#46
Owen-Lars wrote:
I dont realy see it as a flame, its simply highlighting what you said or atleast hinted at either the devs not taking notice or not providing feedback directly.
I mean your post was more of a flame by highlighting so many points in an aparent sarcasting way (atleast to me anyway) but lets not go down that road again, everyone knows the crack.
They (the devs) do listen, they do know the problems and they are working on getting it fixed.
This displays the bias against me just now. See my second reply to Calc for what it actually was.
I've made my position quite clear, I'm not going to tollerate this unwarrented 'attitude'(to use your word) that's built up against me.
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:59 am
#47
Ok this is not a flame or anything like that, im just going to address some of these points DaveG brought out.
Note: Again im not having a go at you dave or discrediting your quests, simply answering them:
are you taking into account the extreme sense of frustration felt by everybody?
There is frustration, felt by all. Some have looked at the 'concept' and direction of the changes and liked where it is heading, others havnt. The bottom line though is that there has been frustration since the revisions went in, nothing has changed since then and having frustration does not mean the point becomes more valid, it has always been a top issue and no matter how much we get pissed wont change that.
Are you taking into account that the system as published is unbalanced?
Its an issue, i think we can all accept that.
Are you taking into account that many rangers spent a lot of time collecting data to test the system?
What has the data collection have to do with anything? It has been put to good use and was a valuable contribution to the community. Just because these changes are live presently doesnt mean that they screwed up the data and forgot about it, it has and will continue to be put to good use.
Are you taking into account that SOE announced that the system would be published an seemingly ignored all that testing (rather than saying "ok we won't publish until we fix these issues")?
Calc highlighted this in our post. They ddint not ignore the testing at all, i directed tiggs to the data and she looked it, apreciatedit (as she posted) and passed it on to the dev team. They asked for it, it was provided and they used it and will continue to. The devs dont 'ignore' our points, they are very much aware of how we feel and just because either a bad change has been pushed (as a mistake) or the devs have gone a different direction does not mean they are ignoring us in the slightest. They are the devs, we are the customers, we play their game.
Are you taking into account that no matter how much work the correspondants have done the devs do not give any outward appearence of taking notice, and the effect this has on the community?
They have, tiggs stopped by after she was directed here and posted that she wanted test data. I also said many many times that they know of the issues and are thinking about them. The reason for Corrs is the represent the community and also act on behalf of the community. I do that and the devs know of our issues, i know that for sure but just because they dont post directly doesnt mean they dont know of our issues and arnt listening to our desires.
Are you even taking into account the amount of time and I expect, restraint that whent into Bethya's post?
It did get a response, could of been worded better but did the job i supose.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say Bethya's post got the most publicly and openly positive response from a SOE person to any ranger. Given that it was a single sentence shows how uncommunicative to the general player base they are.
Again, just because the devs dont speak here doesnt mean they are not working on things. I have given you the details they gave me, i kept you all up to date that i was presenting, creating and adressing the ideas and solutions. Yes some comments are behind closeddoors, but your corr will give you the detailsof changes/issues when we are allowed.
End ofthe day, thedevs can visit every forum and read every post, thatswhat the corrs are here for. You issues get presented, the devs know what the crack is, you dont need a privateconversation with the devs to get that as i have been saying for a while now the devs are aware of the issue.
Again this is not a rant, flame, insult, act of agression, put down or whatever to dave, its addressing alot of issues.
DaveG
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:02 pm
#48
and was taken as such.
Owen-Lars wrote:
Again this is not a rant, flame, insult, act of agression, put down or whatever to dave, its addressing alot of issues.
Cryos_Merovingian
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:06 pm
#49
*cryos sneaks into the thread under the polite gun-fire overhead*
got lots to do right now and I really shouldn'd log on tonight... but I can't wait to go group hunting!!!! I like this patch A LOT.
*sneaks back out*
Bethya
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:07 pm
#50
Back from work to see what my post has caused!
Just to say thanks to those who applauded the post. I appreciate that not everyone was impressed - I see your point of view to a certain degree, and I'm sorry if I offended you.
I just wanted to point out that while I did lay it on a bit thick in places, I did also say that I thought all the other changes looked good, that SOE were to be congratulated for their hard work and that the rest of the harvesting community would be very pleased with the changes. I still feel that if they do sort this Master Ranger anomaly, it will make this change a very beneficial one and I'm all for it.
I'm not sorry that I posted and I'm glad to see SOE have responded.
I'd also like to thank all my Ranger colleagues who tested things so hard and got such good data and also to Owen, Calc, JB and others who have SOE's ear and continue to make our case heard. I certainly wasn't slighting the work you are doing and continue to do. I appreciate your efforts very much. I was slighting the fact that SOE hadn't apparently listened.
It appears that they have.
Vorpaks
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:08 pm
#51
Cryos_Merovingian wrote:*cryos sneaks into the thread under the polite gun-fire overhead*got lots to do right now and I really shouldn'd log on tonight... but I can't wait to go group hunting!!!! I like this patch A LOT.*sneaks back out*
Cryos you troublemaker!
Message Edited by Vorpaks on 02-24-2005 02:09 PM
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:09 pm
#52
DaveG Wrote:
"This displays the bias against me just now. See my second reply to Calc for what it actually was.
I've made my position quite clear, I'm not going to tollerate this unwarrented 'attitude'(to use your word) that's built up against me"
What the hell? I realy dont get you sometimes dave, whats with the paranoia? It wasnt a sting against you, i just can see what calc was getting at. It wasnt an attack, it was simply highlighting the part about you believing you dont get your points across to the devs and that information we put forward isnt being taken into account by the devs, thats all.
Yes you made your possition clear, on many many occassion but no one is giving you attitude, simply highlighting an area they disagree with. And just because i said "in an aparent sarcastic way" doesnt mean im flaming or giving you attitude lol, its saying exactly what it mean. From my perspective it seemed you presented a response in a sarcastic way. That isnt ranting in the slightest, it isnt flaming either so please stop making things up.
Also: Why is "attitude" my word? I dont get it.