Ranger Archive

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Sten_II wrote:
As for those saying 4400 Scout as a pre-req, the Devs are trying to make it balanced. All other combat professions have two branches from different Novice Professions, ie you need to spend at least 58 skill points in order to be a Novice Rifleman / Carbineer / Smuggler / Commando, etc. If it were 4400 Scout, then only 43 skill points are used up.

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• Elite professions: each tree in novice costs you 14 points. 2x 14= 28. each novice box is 15. 28+ 15 = 43.


• Hybrid professions: each tree in novice costs you 14 ponts. 2x14= 28. each novice box is 15. 2x15= 30. 28+ 30 = 58.

Again, if Ranger costs only 4400, we'll have the exact same cost as Creature Handler, Rifleman, Pistoleer, Carbineer, Doctor, Teras Kasi Artist, Swordsman, Fencer and Pikeman. 43 skillpoints.

There is no absolute need for use to become a hybrid.

Old Ranger will be Master Scout

* So really Master Scout is everything the old Rangers could do. Those of you the liked Master Ranger for what they could do will now save 63 Skill points and only have to be a Master Scout.

New Ranger is basically a new Profession. 4400 scout wont make sence becuase they are taking those (two) traps that ranger had and are putting them in the scout tree.. Camps will be bunched into Scout or SquadLeader

Having Ranger be 4000 scout and 4 whichever in Marksmen will bring it in line with most other non specific professions like Commando, BH, Smuggler, all needing 1 tree from two novice professions... While specific classes such as the melee and range ones (pistoleer.carbines.rifles/tka/sword/pike ect.) all require 2 tree's in the same novice profession.

If you think about it Ranger is a Range profession... Hint name RANGER not Melee'er

I'm sure the new ranger will have combat modifiers such as defense and general range acc/speed

Message Edited by Samoflan on 09-22-2005 07:00 AM

I have to agree Ranger as it will be defined will become a Hybrid profession as such it should follow the same rules as the other professions.

Message Edited by Rolfie on 09-22-2005 07:02 AM

Well, it could be worse.. It's better than the smuggler's and commandos prereq of Unarmed IV and Ranged Support IV.

While it's nice to be able to pick what combat profession fits your playstyle, with the added combat mods coming to ranger, I think balance needs to be considered -- so maybe that's why they picked carbineer.

It seems the argument now is whether carbines fit with ranger, or if it will be rifles, pistols or even a certain melee profession instead. Overall, carbines is a good choice.

(I just wish they'd stuck with giving recon armor to ranger if carbineer is required.) It was a case of people complaining before the changes were fully understood..

If we are going to get Carbines IV as a prerequisite then it's probably because the devs can't think of a good way for Rangers to gain experience.

The problem is we no longer have a role in a group (harvesting creatures), and the devs have decided that everyone but crafters and entertainers should get at least 3/4 of their xp from hunting groups. The only way to solve this problem is by making it so Rangers simply add firepower to the group and gain basic weapon xp. Unless someone can come up with a better idea for the Ranger's role in a group then I think we're stuck with carbines

However, for the other 1/4 of our skill tree it looks like we have 3 options. If traps are still crafted by Rangers then it could just be left as the trapping line. I was also thinking these stealing missions could be made like the Bounty Hunter investigation line (with PvP stealing missions available for Masters). Then there's the really original idea of having a line of combat xp (most likely Anti-Personnel Devices & Traps).







...Okay, I've been typing the message for over an hour now and I still haven't come up with a genius idea for the Ranger role

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SeanBlader wrote:
Going a little overboard there. If the High Tech Field base is at master scout, and the 40% group harvesting bonus is there too, you'll have all the PvE creature hunters at master scout. Then they can ignore Ranger, and carbines, be as effective against creatures as they are now, and have master rifles, master scout with 67 skill points free.

You could be Master Rifleman, Master Bounty Hunter and Master Scout.

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Or you could be Master Rifle, Master Scout and Master Creature Handler which is what I'm going for. This fits my Char the most and I never could do it before because I wanted the creature and outdoor parts of Ranger.

hmmmmmmmm

Whilst I was at work and bored I created a little spread sheet to see what skill points I would have left if the pre-reqs for Ranger were one line of scout and carbines and assuming I then went Master Carbines.

The answer is I had enough to get that 'I win' button that is combat medic 4/0/0/0 and have three sp's left for some of FS ranged speed.

Interesting for sure.

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gassygunslinger wrote:
They REALLY shouldn't give you guys a marksman prereq... I'm a smuggler (not a ranger) and I really think it sucks, the fact that I have to learn unarmed combat, and get no real bonuses for it, but it sucks up an extra 15 SP anyways...

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I think the Ranger situation will be different from the Smuggler situation. Smugglers get no unarmed mods for their pre-req but Rangers will get Ranged mods for their pre-req. My assumption at this point is that in order to justify giving us those mods we want they have to also give us a pre-req in Marksman. How can we have Ranged Accuracy if we don't even know how to shoot a gun? Again, this is my personal guess, I am still not 100% clear on what the logic behind it is.

Also, keep in mind that since the CU the only thing that is "carbines" about the carbines line of marksman is the name and the fact that it makes you more efficient skill point wise to have carbines in your template if you want it. I don't think they are necessarily trying to say that carbines is the natural choice of Rangers. Though I agree that is problably what the end result will be, since they are designing it to be the most efficient choice.

Personally I feel that it is worth it to bend logic and give Rangers both melee and ranged mods and let the greater diversity in templates and enjoyment make up for the lack of continuity. (I may be using jedi logic again though ) For an example of continuity problems, if you chose to be Ranger/Creature Handler/Medic you would be able to use all those skills plus a high level gun with an elite level of accuracy and speed, without having any skills at all in Marksman/Brawler or any of their elite professions. I can see where this might cause problems both logic and balance wise. Doesn't mean I like it though.

Message Edited by Vorpaks on 09-22-2005 02:03 PM

There is already a system in the game where players can pick 6 out of 16 possible skill lines in order to move on... the FS system.

Why cant we adapt this system to Ranger, or even SMuggler or COmmando? Simply require Rangers to have 1 Weapon tree in Marksmam OR Melee, and 1 Scout tree. Or even a specific Scout tree. The point is, it will allow Rangers to set up their character the way they want.

Ok did a bit of calculation. And if we stay Marksman - Carbineer 4 and Scout - Exploration 4 as pre-req I think the following template will be way to powerful in pve (pvp would require dropping a line of BH for medic but it would still be good):
Master Ranger/Master Carbineer/BH 0444
Speed with Carabineers: 95
Accuracy with Carabineers: 210
Range Defence with Carabineers: 195
Melee Defence with Carabineers:170
And that is before whatever combat mod's ranger brings to the plate. I think that might end up being a bit to over powered. And the only real place to take out combat mod's will be ranger... and thus further cripple the non carbineer ranger.


My suggestion for a ranger Pre-req would be Scout 4040. It not like CH have a lot of combat mod's that can be misused in stacking. And it would also help BE/Rangers and melee rangers on the SP use.

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Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Ok did a bit of calculation. And if we stay Marksman - Carbineer 4 and Scout - Exploration 4 as pre-req I think the following template will be way to powerful in pve (pvp would require dropping a line of BH for medic but it would still be good):
Master Ranger/Master Carbineer/BH 0444
Speed with Carabineers: 95
Accuracy with Carabineers: 210
Range Defence with Carabineers: 195
Melee Defence with Carabineers:170
And that is before whatever combat mod's ranger brings to the plate. I think that might end up being a bit to over powered. And the only real place to take out combat mod's will be ranger... and thus further cripple the non carbineer ranger.


My suggestion for a ranger Pre-req would be Scout 4040. It not like CH have a lot of combat mod's that can be misused in stacking. And it would also help BE/Rangers and melee rangers on the SP use.

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Keep in mind that if you took out Ranger and added Pistoleer you would get bumped up combat mods too, and more skill points free. It's overpowered compared to what Rangers used to be, but not compared to what professional templates use the same amount of skillpoints as Ranger.

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Vorpaks wrote:
Keep in mind that if you took out Ranger and added Pistoleer you would get bumped up combat mods too, and more skill points free. It's overpowered compared to what Rangers used to be, but not compared to what professional templates use the same amount of skillpoints as Ranger.

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But then how much sense does it make to complain that BH/Ranger might become to powerful if BH/Carbiner/Pistoleer Is already A LOT more powerful that what we can hop to become.
After all, I do not expect we will get combat moods equal to an pistoleer, rifleman, or carbineer, in Ranger?