Ranger Archive
Thread: Possible new Ranger requirements:Scout 4000 and Marksman 0040
robpro wrote:
ranged support. is it because they THROW there heals and poisons?
the new ranger is going to THROW trapshow abo
Is THROWING considered a melee attack or ranged?
Savanah wrote:
robpro wrote:
ranged support. is it because they THROW there heals and poisons?
the new ranger is going to THROW trapshow abo
Is THROWING considered a melee attack or ranged?
It's considered throwing....ask a comando...
robpro wrote:how about something in medic as a prereq you would think someone who can take care of there self out in the wild would have some medic ability then ranged or melee would be even
all the same arguments as i have seen in the bh forums SOE likes to pick what combat style we use with what profession we pick why should a bh be only ranged combat? why should smuggler be pistol / unarmed? why? why? why?
combat medic needs ranged support. is it because they THROW there heals and poisons?
the new ranger is going to THROW traps
Is THROWING considered a melee attack or ranged?
My first impression of a Bounty Hunter profession who's designed to go up against Jedi, is that they wouldn't want to get close to the Jedi. First thing Jango did was kite Obi-wan.
Also you're pigeonholing Rangers into the "wild" again. The New Ranger is not a Park Ranger.
Smugglers use pistols, because Han used pistols, and they get unarmed to fit in with the dirty street fighting theme of the "underworld".
Basically their arguments have a basis in reality this time, certainly more than others. Personally I like the Navy Seal arrangement, in and out with the mission objective in your pocket before they even knew you were there.
Owen-Lars wrote:Its bad news.
If they plan on sticking with it then they need to balance that decision by giving us carbine weapons and offensive/crowd controlling abilities.
This is terrible news
I really hope they change their minds about Marksman Carbines being a pre-req.
There is no justification to taking 3 lines of scout.
Think about it. In order to get scout XP regardless of how you get the creature must die.
In order for it to die you must help it see the light.
In order to see the light you will need a Melee profession requiring two prereqs, or a Ranged profession requiring two pregs.
So keep Scout 4400, let the Ranger decide his or her weapon of choice.
But I'm still not a big fan of the carbines; I admit this is probably because I use rifles, and hate to give them up. I still think the 2 lines in scout would be a better solution, but I can understand the dev thinking on this one. Carbines are a lot easier to conceal than rifles, and tend to pack more of a punch than pistols. In the military environment, the first weapon of choice is usually a firearm rather than a melee weapon (although melee weapons would be more suitable for stealth related folks, since whacking someone with a hammer or sticking them with a knife would be a lot quieter than a burst of carbine fire).
I'm still not at a point where I'll drop Ranger; so far, we only have words. A lot can change between now and the arrival of the revamp on TC (the armor certs have already done so). I can't say for certain if this is where I'll want to go with the character until I spend some time trying it out. Fortunately, switching from rifles to carbines shouldn't be horrendous for me, since I never got rid of my token respec....
Changing the prerequisites for Ranger should involve theScout skill trees and not force new requirements in the combat skill sets. Ideally, the broad changes being made to the profession are being done so the Rangers are more useful and interesting, and draw more players. Requiring *two* lines of skill from Scout gives the Ranger the ability to travel undetected in the environment (Exploration) and the ability to fashion traps snares, mini-bombs etc in a MacGyver like fashion from items found in the environment (Trapping).
I have a TKM Ranger whose skills are really useful in closed environments, that Ranger would do well in the Urban warfare/stealth interactions. Group wise this character also tanks effectively aiding the ranged players. This keeps the group balance and interdependency model alive.
My Master Rifleman/Ranger character is the natural for distance scouting out of the environment and firing the opening volleys in a group attack. This character with Cover and Sniping also can arguably make the most use of some of the new stealth skills.
Alot of mostly positive excitement has been generated by the proposed Ranger changes. I think this is partiallybecause of the flexibility offered by the changes to many players regardless of their combat profile. It adds the possiblity of a whole new play experience if you implement it as proposed successfully. Please go forward and make this new vision of Ranger and the overall gameplay it promises available to as many players as possible.
Athela/Atheren/AmeliaRoseWhile driving into work thought about this some more.
Again the proposed changes will not make everyone happy. So I thought what upside can I find in this propsoal.
Well if I stick to just the requirements. I break old rusty out of mothballs and go back to using aHarvesting droid again for starters.
If I follow the a Ranger not hit is a Ranger not needing medic motto. Then I thought okay what is the most bang for buck with carbines.
So no medic for now. So I stick to Scout 4000 and Master Carbine. Now were do I spend 48 skill points. Well I have4 pointstied up in Force Skill Ranged Speed so for now we keep those.
Next carbines are much faster than Rifles, So we will not worry about speed for now. So I take Rifle 4400 I still have snipershot and headshot plus I maintain conceal.
Now I no longer have traps in the scout line. But since they were going to creature centric thats a liability that carbines covers to a degree.
I can knockdown, snare, and root with carbines. I have a supression shot that will "drive away" the enemy don't know haven't eaxctly amstered carbines just yet.
But I also have two heavy hitting shots, Improved Snipershot and Improved Headshot as well as Improved Conceal. So from a ranged Ranger standpoint its not to bad. Lots of accuracy built into this template.
From a more FOTM template then Combat Medic 4000 is a possibility.
Heres is what I am worried about and I think I have an ideal why carbines instead of ranged Support 4.
Bounty Hunters plain and simple. In the ever growing bounty hunter versus jedi wars this will only add fuel to the fire and is best nipped in the bud.
I know Scout 4400 does this nicely, But like bounty hunters, Smugglers, Commandos, and Squad Leaders the dev team is trying to bring the profession in line with the other combat professions. Nothing will prevent a melee Ranger from being a Melee Ranger.
The downside is the only class able to be a Master Scout, Master Ranger, Master Combat is the Carbine profession. That limits a Rangers options but it will cut down on the Bounty Hunter, Jedi balance wars.
Message Edited by Rolfie on 09-22-2005 06:27 AM
As for those saying 4400 Scout as a pre-req, the Devs are trying to make it balanced. All other combat professions have two branches from different Novice Professions, ie you need to spend at least 58 skill points in order to be a Novice Rifleman / Carbineer / Smuggler / Commando, etc. If it were 4400 Scout, then only 43 skill points are used up. The devs want it split across two professions so that they can add combat mods (General Ranged Acc , Speed, etc) to the profession.
CorethLandwalker wrote:
Well, I've spent some time thinking about things, and while I originally felt that Ranged Support would be a good way to go, I have to agree that it might be a little too much temptation for BH's (nothing against the BH's in general...but when things get easier for them, the jedi start to squeal, and things deteriorate from there).
I'm surprised everyone is surprised by the requirements. There's no way it would stay 2 trees in scout. First template I thought off with that would be MBH/MR/x444 Squad Leader or MBH/MR/4x44 CH. No way there gonna allow nearly mastering a 3rd elite profession for one of the most common (and useful) professions.
You all that are MRifles, with the carbine requirement, wouldn't having a Knockdown special from either Carbs or the 1 line of BH be a nice addition???
Think before going nuts over the carbine line being needed, it's useful to us. We could end up needing the Engineering line in Artisian. I know the melee types get kinda screwed as any ranged is of little use to them, but they will stay pretty much the same as now wont they? Not sure, but currently, say TKM/MR leaves 4 points, with requirement changes they'll have a few more (I think) enough for FS melee speed/defense perhaps?
Honestly if there going to force us to have a marksman line, why not set it up to where its one fo the 4, your pick, they all lead to Ranger. Can't be that hard to do. Could also do the same in melee so the melee rangers have there option as well. Might be a coding headache but it would still work.
Summary for me if they go that route
Scout 0400
Any novice fighting branch to Ranger