Ranger Archive
Thread: Ranger Skill Points: Post CU
Phenix1050
Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:37 am
#53
Bethya, there really aren't any professions that've been waiting longer than us. Both Smugglers and Rangers were acknowledged by the developers as being incomplete from launch. Both have had some changes and some new things added, but the fact is that neither has recieved a full revamp or what they were promised since launch. Kinda hard to be being borked from day 1. SL's to my knowledge were never acknowledgedas being incomplete from launch, but I believe they were, so we'll add them in. Ranger, SL, smuggler all broked since launch. and guess which two are recieving changes in the CU. I hate to say it, but I think Smugglers and SLs can get to the back of the line at this point. I know it won't happen because Smugglers already have development threads, but at the very least, SLs can be last in line since they're considered a "core combat" profession now.
Tyyylowyspetily
Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:00 am
#54
Heya folks.
I'm no longer a Ranger, but I would just like to make a couple of quick observations about a potential for skill point reduction.
The wayI see it, there most likely will at some point be a balancing act done with all professions to ensure skill points invested are equal to the gains. The balance appears to be headed towards making the investment the same for the elite professions rather than trying to compensate people for a greater investment in skill points. Given this fact, it might be wise to consoder the following two choices.
1. Ranger no longer requires master scout, andRangers end up with lessened ability, due to the drop in the scout based skills, but are better able to pursue combat professions.
2. The Ranger profession itself is scaled back in cost, but still requires a mastery of scout, allowing for fewertemplate choices, but maintaining a more solid basis in theScouting profession.
I don't see a reduction in skill points for Master Ranger as neccesarily a "cheapening" of the profession. It is still a much more limited path, even if those skill point requirements are dropped. The thing that concerns me, is that in fighting to keepsoon to be disporportionate skill point requirement for novice Ranger, and also fighting against lowering the skill point cost in Ranger itself, the developers may make a choice on which it will be for the players, since they cannot come to a decision on their own.
I may be reading intowhat I see on TC5 and on the in development, and in concept forums incorrectly, I grant this.
As I said at the outset, I am no longer a Ranger. I haven't been in months. But the time I spent in the class, and the people I met (fellow Rangers) left me with a lasting love for the profession. I may never return to it, but I do still care what happens to this profession, and more to the point, the really increadible people the profession seems to attract. I would just hate to see a final an outcome to the post CU world that ended up being contrary to what Rangers want for their class, because a final decision gets pushed down their throats at the buzzer.
/endTroll
I'll go back to my hole now. 
Rasst
Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:02 am
#55
Don't count on revamp. I think all who played Master Ranger are maniacs.
They will play it anyway. Since all others can take some scout and have their meat, Rangers are not playing considrable role in whole game (and usually Rangers don't need others help in their quests). Ranger Revampis the last thing in devs to do list.
They will play it anyway. Since all others can take some scout and have their meat, Rangers are not playing considrable role in whole game (and usually Rangers don't need others help in their quests). Ranger Revampis the last thing in devs to do list.We must thinking about surviving right after CU, not in a distant future. sp reduction is the easiest way: rangers will have more choises to raise their essentialcombat abilities.
PS. Oh, and please count xp not sp as a price of profession. spare just points, xp is hard work. FS skills cost 1sp - do you think they are cheap?
Message Edited by Rasst on 04-05-2005 10:06 PM
Aenedor
Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:40 am
#56
I have read this and the other threads on the same subject and here is my 2 pence worth.
I do not want Master Ranger devalued, therefore I do not want a skill point reduction (even though just 1sp would get me MR/MBH/CH 0/0/0/3, which I think would own).
I want my one lot Ranger Cabin that I can place in the wilds of Dathomir or Endor and apart from the occasional party, me and my guildies could use it as a base to hunt from.
*dreams of his Cabin
Bethya
Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:21 pm
#57
Phenix
Fair enough. If we've been borked as long as others, that's fine and I'll accept that. My main point remains - if all the other elite professions are having their SP requirement reduced, it's ludicrous that Ranger should not get the same...
... and in no way, in my opinion, does an SP reduction devalue our profession if every other profession is getting the same.
Owen-Lars
Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:23 pm
#58
Most are actually getting them increased but i know where you are coming from. Its just most of those professions dont have the range of skill knowledge areas ranger does.
fatheadnz
Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:16 pm
#59
We shouldn't be asking for a SP reduction
1)We can't drop any line of Scout, all 4 Ranger trees build off all 4 Scout trees.
2)Changing the SP for each box would just make alot more work for the devs, and/or it might not be easily possible, there is
probably a reason why all novice and elite prof have the same SP costs per box.
3)If they dropped Master Scout as a requirement then they would have to redo our mods either adding them into Ranger from the
dropped Scout trees (which would annoy Scouts) or stuffing them into what ever lines we need to get Ranger (again would annoy Scouts)
which would make it very easy for a dabbler to get ALOT of the good Scout skills for WAY less SP.
Now if you look at what I have just said that looks like the beginnings of a half baked attempt at a revamp and I for one most
certainly don't want a half baked revamp.
Having played on TC for a couple hours now I can't really see my play style changing much, I rarely take on creatures with more than 10k HAM now and it looks like I won't be after the CU goes live.
I will be dropping the CH skills I have now though in favour of bolstering my medic skills, with only some rifleman skills and MR I am already only support in a group but can still deal some damage, so I thought I would up my medic skills to be even more useful in a support role, especially with
area heals available in medic now (I have yet to test these on TC).
I have had great fun in the past playing in a group as support dealing some damage but having my main role be to protect our doc, I have used a Rescue macro quite well in that instance, it is alot better that the doc heals me than ends up dead, now I don't see that role changing at all after the CU.
We have been and will always be a support profession in my opinion, and thats fine by me, it means I don't have to be an uber combat toon to be useful to the group, and most importantly have fun
Now I'm not going to say the CU on TC has been good for us but I don't think it is as bad many seem to think.
Sure it 'looks' like we are getting the shaft when it comes to the health increases BUT we don't know that for a fact yet as we aren't able to
test the elite prof yet, so how the HAM is increased is pure speculation for now.
But from looking at all the combat prof. trees they have lost about 50% of their special moves and rarely gained any new ones, looking at the
Ranger tree we haven't lost ANY of our skills, sure some of them might not be as effective as they once were but we still HAVE them, and we are
a combat related prof make no mistake about it.
1)We can't drop any line of Scout, all 4 Ranger trees build off all 4 Scout trees.
2)Changing the SP for each box would just make alot more work for the devs, and/or it might not be easily possible, there is
probably a reason why all novice and elite prof have the same SP costs per box.
3)If they dropped Master Scout as a requirement then they would have to redo our mods either adding them into Ranger from the
dropped Scout trees (which would annoy Scouts) or stuffing them into what ever lines we need to get Ranger (again would annoy Scouts)
which would make it very easy for a dabbler to get ALOT of the good Scout skills for WAY less SP.
Now if you look at what I have just said that looks like the beginnings of a half baked attempt at a revamp and I for one most
certainly don't want a half baked revamp.
Having played on TC for a couple hours now I can't really see my play style changing much, I rarely take on creatures with more than 10k HAM now and it looks like I won't be after the CU goes live.
I will be dropping the CH skills I have now though in favour of bolstering my medic skills, with only some rifleman skills and MR I am already only support in a group but can still deal some damage, so I thought I would up my medic skills to be even more useful in a support role, especially with
area heals available in medic now (I have yet to test these on TC).
I have had great fun in the past playing in a group as support dealing some damage but having my main role be to protect our doc, I have used a Rescue macro quite well in that instance, it is alot better that the doc heals me than ends up dead, now I don't see that role changing at all after the CU.
We have been and will always be a support profession in my opinion, and thats fine by me, it means I don't have to be an uber combat toon to be useful to the group, and most importantly have fun
Now I'm not going to say the CU on TC has been good for us but I don't think it is as bad many seem to think.
Sure it 'looks' like we are getting the shaft when it comes to the health increases BUT we don't know that for a fact yet as we aren't able to
test the elite prof yet, so how the HAM is increased is pure speculation for now.
But from looking at all the combat prof. trees they have lost about 50% of their special moves and rarely gained any new ones, looking at the
Ranger tree we haven't lost ANY of our skills, sure some of them might not be as effective as they once were but we still HAVE them, and we are
a combat related prof make no mistake about it.
Message Edited by fatheadnz on 04-06-2005 01:18 PM
Kalaf
Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:42 pm
#60
Ok the Easiest fix for the shaft we are getting is this....
Add a couple of Skills to our Tree, THings we need vs Critters. Dizzy recovery things like that.,
THen just make it so ALL Elite Professions get the increased Health based on the boxes they fill.
THen FIx the biggest screwup they made IMHO. That being the armor restrictions. THere is It is stupid to think that a Master Ranger can't wear the armor he is certified for because he is using a weapon from a Profession that ISN"T certified for it. That is just STUPID.
Owen-Lars
Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:51 pm
#61
Whats this with armour restrictions?
Rangers can wear the armour they are certed for with any weapon they are also certed for in their hands.
Kalaf
Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:57 pm
#62
Can we? Can't get a straight answer. (I have been following the other threads in other forums).. Can;t test it in TC5 since I can't get any Elite skills yet...
THe way I saw it explained in more then 1 place over this week was that if you couldn't use skills (read specials and weapons) when wearing armor that wasn't certified for a profession that used them. If I am wrong could you point me to the right explination? IE.. it was being discused how a rifleman couldn;t usehis skills when wearing battle armor. (which is the situation I will be in. Master Rifle/Master Ranger... See my concerns?
Owen-Lars
Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:02 pm
#63
Hmm, ive only read what has been explained in the cu boards and from the documents themselves but i got the distinct impression if you are certed for an armour you can use whatever weapons you want (but the hinderance values may not be optimal for that weapon though for instance).
I think its safe to say you can use whatever armour you want with your weapons, i mean why give ranger a battle armour cert when you have to use the cert from your weapons profession everytime you pick up that weapon?
Id say those people were telling porkies (or atleast thats what it seems) and that you can infact use whatever weapons you want with whatever armour you are certed for but the hinderance values may impact negatively on that (Assault rate of fire penalty for instance may be bad for riflemen for example).
Almagill
Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:12 pm
#64
Jolandir wrote:From Blairs April 1st Blog we read:2. How do I achieve the "maxed character health" of 3000?
Under the new system, as your character combat level increases, so will your total health. Your character's combat level is determined by the number of combat related skill boxes that you have. Additionally doctor and combat medic skill boxes will count towards this level. So as you gain these combat related skill boxes you will be able to gain health up to the cap of 3000.
We are considered a none combat profession as either scout or ranger, so I see a major unbalance for us. At best we will gain 1000 in health when we take a "real" combat profession and master it, but others who are considered "real" combatants will get 3000. So in anyone's calculations that is a difference of 2000 in health alone.
All players start with a health of 1000.
You can increase this, through combat mastery, to a maximum of 3000 (excluding species modifiers and buffs). The key phrase in Blairs post is "gain health up to the cap of 3000", note this is not the same as 'gain a maximum increase of 3000'
Ranger is not regarded, at this time, by the Dev's as a combat class. Ranger does not attract any combat modifier, as we understand it at this time.
All rangers (with the exception of some very strange and rare creatures*) have a combat profession which, unless other SP commitments mean it is not possible, can be taken to Master level.
Working on the assumption that one elite combat mastery gives us a health increase of 1000, that gives MR/MCombatElite a theoretical max health of 2000.
We still have to see exactly what health increases the elite professions do bring and how the skills granted to a MR help compensate for the shortfal of 1000 in our theoretical health cap.
* i was reminded today that a colleague of mine ran a ranger/doctor hybrid briefly. Not full Masters, but enough to track and enough to buff. iirc he may also have had some combat medic, but it was a few months ago now since he left the game
Message Edited to remove ()£$*" bold text by Almagill on 04-06-2005 03:14 AM
Message Edited by Almagill on 04-06-2005 03:15 AM
Aenedor
Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:09 am
#65
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Aenedor wrote:
I have read this and the other threads on the same subject and here is my 2 pence worth.
I do not want Master Ranger devalued, therefore I do not want a skill point reduction (even though just 1sp would get me MR/MBH/CH 0/0/0/3, which I think would own).
I want my one lot Ranger Cabin that I can place in the wilds of Dathomir or Endor and apart from the occasional party, me and my guildies could use it as a base to hunt from.
*dreams of his Cabin
This is kind of a big problem. Dont take this the wrong way but, this is not about what YOU want, but what is good for the ranger community as a whole and what will allow other players (particularly new ones as well as old ones who go "ranger is actually cool now") to take ranger without having to forgo 3/4 of the game content (the most fun bits)!
No-one is going to get all they want!
You want what you want, I want what I want, there is no need to get all twitchy just 'cause we disagree
EDIT: you make a fair point that as it stands post CU, Master Ranger is not very attractive.
Also, fun to me is hunting on Dath with no armour and no buffs harvesting resources that will make me pots of money. That is fun. The stuff that other people do is boring
Message Edited by Aenedor on 04-05-2005 08:11 PM
Message Edited by Aenedor on 04-05-2005 08:14 PM