Ranger Archive
Thread: When are we going to get a Dev response?
Whoa. Are you inferring that we're just complaining to complain? I didn't get the impression that any of us were going to every thread even in this forum, let alone any other. If you feel that we've conducted ourselves in a less than professional manner, perhaps you could send us a PM indicating such.
I belive the original poster was a) asking a legitimate question and b) venting his frustration at not getting what he thinks is an appropriate response to 8 months of "clear and concise" posts. Maybe he has a better understanding of how things work now that you and Delta have weighed in. Maybe I'm reading too much into your post and it's tone, or maybe I'm just as burnt out as the original poster and am being touchy, but that didn't sound very good tome. My two cents.
Have a good weekend.
OK, the tone of this was uncalled for andI apologize for that. It seems to me that we have been seeing more and more "forget being civil, let's do what the wooks did," posting on this forum. This comment is in no way related to this thread (but the overall tone of the forum lately) and I should not have posted it here. I know this thread asks to do what I suggested, and I thought I was backing you guys up. I am as fed up as you, but I implore you to keep on being patient. Please feel free to voice your concerns in high profile locations, but don't forget to keep it civil. I will say that being the Correspondent is teaching me to watch waht i say, and I how I say it. I do thank you guys for calling me out whenI goof up
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Who said we should lay off TH? Should we **edit** and moan in every thread on every forum? Nope. Should we post more in the more high profile threads as long it is relevant to the topic (the weekly roundtable thread is best for this, I think)? Most certainly. Should we continue to make our case in a rational manner? Only if we want to continue to be considered a mature group of folks.
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Tonteth wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Who said we should lay off TH? Should we **edit** and moan in every thread on every forum? Nope. Should we post more in the more high profile threads as long it is relevant to the topic (the weekly roundtable thread is best for this, I think)? Most certainly. Should we continue to make our case in a rational manner? Only if we want to continue to be considered a mature group of folks.
My response to this will be... how do you argue with proven past results? Jedi get 2 publishes, and they have been less than mature. Look at where mature has gotten us. Three professions asking for equal ranger harvesting abilities. We're being picked apart by vultures, and we sit here and let it happen.
Guys,
You're attributing the success of certain professions getting attention to the wrong things.
Why did Jedi get a revamp - simple: 1.) They're the #1 most visible and marquee profession in the game. 2.) The Devs got a massive PR hit when the first Jedi came out and people realized it was just profession grinding. The MMORPG community really laid into them for promising a dynamic system and instead turning it into grinding. 3.) Hologrinding was destroying the game.
It had nothing to do with their whining.
Why did Wookies get armor? Again - simple. 1.) They're the #1 most visible and marquee race in the game. 2.) They're the one race that everyone knows is "uniquely Star Wars" and with no armor, etc. they were becoming an extinct species because they were gimped for PvP. 3.) This was a good way to increase the number of Wookies as well as provide them witha needed PR bump.
It also had nothing to do with their whining.
Whining does nothing. The CHs and BHs and other gimped professions have been whining for a long time, and they're not getting any attention. The Devs set their priorities based on what THEY feel needs to be fixed immediately. Droids, Smugglers, Jedi - these are majorly Star Warsy professions, and fixing them makes the game feel more like Star Wars so they kill two birds with one stone - fix a borked profession, give them game more depth.
Unfortunately, we don't have that link to Star Wars that other professions have, nor are we so totally dysfunctional that you cannot play us and have fun. Other professions are still that bad.
Calc came on very, very strong when he started out, and he was chasing TH across every thread in the Corr forum. I asked him to back off, because I've seen that tactic used before, and it never works. It ends up with the Corr being ignored or publicly chastised for doing it, and I want Calc to succeed, not fail.
LikeI said before - there are some minor things coming that will benefit us, but we need to be planning longer term (probably post-Space Expansion) for any huge, major changes. But that doesn't mean that we won't get some minor things fixed. Calc's #1 priority is harvesting rates. Mine is camps. Hopefully, we can get those fixed sooner rather than later.
The Ranger and Scout forums have always been known for rational, intelligent players and posters. Don't give in to whining.
B
Butaggressive postingworks. The DE and smugglers have been ragging on the devs since launch. They are now on the top 3 priority list. Wookiees got armor because they didn't let up. Rifleman got a weapon fixed because of1500+ posts on the old forum. Crafters managed to stop a horrible nerf. The best example, jedi got their entire system reworked. You really can't argue with past results.
And I'd love to see the devs try to takeour ranger/scout correspondant down a peg. It'd turn in to another massive dev flame where we get to watch TH squirm for a few weeks then back peddle his statements claiming he did it with faulty information.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Who said we should lay off TH? Should we **edit** and moan in every thread on every forum? Nope. Should we post more in the more high profile threads as long it is relevant to the topic (the weekly roundtable thread is best for this, I think)? Most certainly. Should we continue to make our case in a rational manner? Only if we want to continue to be considered a mature group of folks.
My response to this will be... how do you argue with proven past results? Jedi get 2 publishes, and they have been less than mature. Look at where mature has gotten us. Three professions asking for equal ranger harvesting abilities. We're being picked apart by vultures, and we sit here and let it happen.
Tonteth wrote:
Butaggressive postingworks. The DE and smugglers have been ragging on the devs since launch. They are now on the top 3 priority list. Wookiees got armor because they didn't let up. Rifleman got a weapon fixed because of1500+ posts on the old forum. Crafters managed to stop a horrible nerf. The best example, jedi got their entire system reworked. You really can't argue with past results.
And I'd love to see the devs try to takeour ranger/scout correspondant down a peg. It'd turn in to another massive dev flame where we get to watch TH squirm for a few weeks then back peddle his statements claiming he did it with faulty information.
Gotta agree 100%. Squeaky wheel gets the grease....this has been proven time and time again. When the devs are motivated they move reaaaallly fast.
Look at wookiee armor.They had toannounced that Maurader armor wouldn't work for wookies due to art problems and that they were going to design all new armor for them. It was literally less than a month from that announcement and the unveiling of the first all new armor they put together for wookiees.
We're nice and polite.......and subsequently ignored. I'm pretty sure we will continue to be ignored for quite some time. Sorry to be the pessimist but I've been around long enough to see proposal after proposal put together and ignored over the last year to be otherwise.
Tonteth wrote:
Butaggressive postingworks. The DE and smugglers have been ragging on the devs since launch. They are now on the top 3 priority list. Wookiees got armor because they didn't let up. Rifleman got a weapon fixed because of1500+ posts on the old forum. Crafters managed to stop a horrible nerf. The best example, jedi got their entire system reworked. You really can't argue with past results.
And I'd love to see the devs try to takeour ranger/scout correspondant down a peg. It'd turn in to another massive dev flame where we get to watch TH squirm for a few weeks then back peddle his statements claiming he did it with faulty information.
As Delta pointed out already, it's not the whining alone that did this. DE, Smugglers, BHs, Jedi, and Wookies are all essential Star Wars icons. They are in a bad state. Fixing them not only helps those professions but helps the atmosphere. If there were no Droids or Wookies around, would it really feel like Star Wars? How many people do you think bought this game so they could feel like Darth Vader, Han Solo, or Boba Fett? If they try the game and can't have fun playing the professions they want then they will quit. Rangers, on the other hand, are a group made up of more open minded individuals (i.e. people who are playing the game for reasons other than it just being Star Wars). There are never going to be as many of those in this game. So professions like that need to wait a bit longer for their fixes.
Crafters and Riflemen got changes REVERSED. The code was already there. The Devs only needed to switch things back to how they were before (with a few tweaks for the Riflemen). It is much easier to reverse a change than to make it in the first place.
Now you might start arguing that Squad Leaders are getting a revamp. I bet a big part of this is the number of players doing solo only fighting. This is a MMORPG. You shouldn't be going out for a hunt with only one or two people. Squad Leaders are meant to have skills that promote large groups. This game needs a bit of that.
Rangers are in a bad state. The Devs know this. Most players don't. Many of the players who know don't care or, if they do care, most care a lot less than they do about their profession getting fixed. Is this a problem? Hopefully not. Once the Devs get through the high profile professions and the professions that are completely broken, they will work on helping professions that just need help. We are not high profile. We are not extremely broken. We just need a lot of help. Fixing us takes longer than tweaking a Carbineer special. Even if they can just increase the harvesting rate, they have to be very careful with how they do it. If they let us harvest 20x as much now, our profession would be worth the skill points. But, when they go back to fix the rest of our profession, they would have to drop that quite a bit or leave us with similarly effective skills to what we have now. And, honestly,I think the Devs like nerfing about as much as we do.
As it is, Image Designer, Merchant, Ranger, Smuggler, and Squad Leader are probably the professions that need the most help. Image Designer is getting a bit of help as time goes along. Merchant is a hard one to fix without causing all sorts of nerfs to current players. Could you imagine vendors poofing for everyone who wasn't a merchant? It probably will have to be done (withwarnings and left over items going to the owner's inventory) but it won't be pretty.Smuggler needs to feel like Star Wars. Ranger we all know about. And Squad Leaders we can guess. Right now, the Devs are taking care of ID, Smuggler, and Squad Leader. Ranger and Merchant will need to come shortly thereafter (especially now that the combat balance has been delayed). We might not get our own publish (as it's not exactly a high profile fix) but the Devs are almost certainly looking into it.
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Gang,
I'm not implying that we've started whining, or anything like that.
I'm saying don't think that this is a tactic that has even a remote chance or working. If you want examples of where whining hasn't solved anything - just look at Creature Handlers (no offense). They've been very negative and very upset for a long time, and they've gotten nerfed to hell and gone with no relief coming.
Like I said before, "aggressive posting" is not what got those professions attention.
The more legitimate, solid arguments that we can make, the more likely we can get our issues addressed. There is nothing the Devs like more than solidly worded argument, and a concise and clear proposal.
Calc is making these, and this is why I expect that we'll see some love in a few months.
B
I would first like to say that Calc, Delta...you have elucidated the priorities very clearly...I for one respect that. My concern is in this particular order
1) The game as a whole
2) The "star wars feeling"
3) Game immersion
4) New and challenging content
5) Rangers
Most of you know that I am an active participant in the ongoing debate on how to improve Rangers and thereby improving the game for both us and other players.
For me, the ranger profession is how I have fun in the game... for other professions (DE, SL, Smugglers...etc.) they have had very little use for their professions and I completely support their revamps
Do we need one?
Yes
Should we cut the line?
No
I am a little concerned about the tone these boards have been taking...and I can only say that if they continue to be negative and whiny...I will only lurk to see whats new, and I may just have to leave these discussions.
When I left ranger, I stayed with the community because I really liked the ranger boards, they were a place where ideas could be debated without flaming, it was a place where people discussed "why I became a ranger" there were very few times when a Ranger story posting would never be on the third page. Now, when I log on to the boards, I see posts like this one, and other negative postings.
A majority (99.9%) of the rangers I really like, however, the despair on these boards have increased to such the level in recent times that I dont want to log on and face drama when I have enough drama in my real life. Whining never solved anything, complaining never makes someone look good, Calc is, in my opinion doing a great job and I have nothing but respect for him....
we know that we will get our time in the sun, but i dont know when...we will get the love, and i hope its soon...til then I will play the game, have fun and see if the boards calm down.
Message Edited by AgonThalia on 04-10-2004 11:13 AM