Ranger Archive

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Maxanto wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
As someone pointed out to me in a PM...it doesn't matter what we want anyway...the devs will do what THEY want.

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I read that and got very angry at first Calc. I think that is a terrible viewpoint for a corr to have. You are here to represent our profession, not for popularity or to have a cool signature.

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Check with the Creature Handler Correspondant, or the Squad Leader Correspondant if they were even aware of the changes that were coming to their representative professions, let alone if they had any suggestions.

I do have a question though...

Is wilderness survival fun? Are there mechanics in the game to show it even exists?

The thing is wilderness survival can branch off into any areas of the combat game and out of combat too. Now we all know the rest and recouperate vission of wilderness survival is all but dead but we can move wilderness survive from the sit around in safety approach to that of a more involved approach. Be it through combat mods, through buffs and debuffs. There are lots of opportunities to use survival like skills in combat and around combat, id love us to go that way.

I can remember when GM last spoke about what a ranger is and he spoke about how he still thinks of ranger as the ultimate survivalist, able to excel in the wilderness of any planet. I love that view of what a ranger is because it focuses on the survival aspects of ranger rather than getting into the debate about creatures/players/npcs. I dont want to us to be creature specific, i dont want us to be npc specific nor player specific. I want to be a master of survival be it in the creature, pvp or npc realm.

If you consider harvesting to be creature centric content then Im all for keeping it, but Im much more in favor of breaking the line of creature orientation in favor of becoming wilderness centric. Thats wilderness including everything you might expect to find there. Ranger V Creature is fine, but it also has to include Ranger V Ranger. What happens when one day they actually have a PVP GCW planet that we fight over for a month or more before it resets...? If we get stuck with a creature centric role they will be kicking themselves over not having a clear role of forward scout. If the day ever comes to pass I want them to be looking around saying... we need to find some rangers to watch our forward lines, not, we have no need for your skinning skills here, ranger.

My take on it is that there are no ranger skills that can be actively and consistantly deployed against non-creature mobs. For example, our traps only affect creatures and camo may or may not help us avoid mobs, but we can't count on it to work consistantly. We do have some passive abilities that do help us against non-creature mobs, namely the CL level increase we get as we earn ranger skills. In the post-cu world, your damage is always relative to the CL of your target, so just having the CL80 does help a lot, as it means that you take less damage from high-end mobs (than you would without it) and your attacks count for as much as they can (rather than being reduced).

I think that a lot of posters who claim that we are useless against non-creatures are arguing for effect - that is, exagerrating their arguments to bolster their case. I can solo nightsisters with my template (well, up to stalkers); we've raided the avatar before and I didn't seem any better or worse off than any of the other profs up there; we've killed necrosis so many times that it's not a challege anymore, etc....

Now, I'll be the first to admit that a good part of my ability to do this comes from my carbine skills and I could probably do these things much better if I dropped ranger and took up some other combat prof., but to argue that ranger brings nothing at all to the table just doesn't hold water. Why? Because we at least get the CL level increase and under the current system that still counts for a lot. So, I think instead of saying ranger is no good against other players and non-creature mobs, it is more accurate to say that ranger isn't as effective as it maybe should be in these types of encounters. Why? Because all of our active skills seem geared against creatures.

One other thing I've noticed is that no one has raised the issue of why does this matter in the context of the game as it now stands. Well, I think that when the game was first introduced crafting and consequently resource gathering were much, much more important than they are now. What this meant was that creatures were more important since they provided much of the raw materials needed for these activities. But I think the CU has done a lot to devalue the crafting side of the game - and what has replaced it are loot drops. Because there is now little benefit to crafting uber items, players are increasingly seeking out AA's and CA's to supplement their characters. None of these drop from creatures. At the same time, the mission system of the CU and the sheer amount of resources that drop from CL 80 creatures has also revalued the resource-gathering game -- when every ranger on the server can harvest 500k units of an uber resource in about 4 hours time, then how much really should that resource be worth. And when you can get missions for all but a few types of resources, missions that can spawn more creatures than a natural lair ever will, then why bother hunting for stuff?

I don't know - just my thoughts. On and yes, I'm on crack, but if you have to ask, you can't afford what I'm smoking.

Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin

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Maxanto wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
As someone pointed out to me in a PM...it doesn't matter what we want anyway...the devs will do what THEY want.

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I read that and got very angry at first Calc. I think that is a terrible viewpoint for a corr to have. You are here to represent our profession, not for popularity or to have a cool signature.

Now having said that. I do not believe thats your intention.

We need you to be strong for us. To be professional and articulate enough so that THEY know what WE want. That is your responcibility as Corr. Never give up hope man you are our only option when dealing with these people. I have been a ranger off and on since day 1. I have pretty much given up, I just pray you are not like me.

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I understand, and that comment may have been out of place (along with many of my posts today...I apologize for that). Paks covered things pretty nicely, so I won't elaborate too much more. I haven't given up. Ask Serraphin, I am the eternal hopeful . But, on the other side of the coin, I don't have any false hopes. I know and accept that the revamp (will come someday and) will not please 100% of us, nor will any one of us get 100% of what we want.

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Maxanto wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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BioEngine wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Phenix1050 wrote:
okay, Ranger skills are limited from 2/3rds of the COMBAT game. Let's not split hairs here, Calc.

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Let's not over exaggerate, either. There is NOTHING in this game that I can't do becuase I chose Ranger.

EDIT: I guess spelling isn't my thing today.

Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 09-08-2005 09:08 AM

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Can you defeat a fully templated combat character one on one?

Can you get hit through an entire fight with the Necrosis mobs and live?

Can you stand up to CL 83 NPC's at factional bases without it being "too close for comfort?"

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Who can guarantee success in any of those situations? I have had successes and failures in every one of those situations, with and without my Ranger character.

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I don't think that was his question. No one should be able to "guarantee success" right? Thats why they "ballanced" the professions. He is merely asking... Can you ...ever? I would have to say no. Unless your opponent was 20 cl's lower than you, you have little or NO chance at beating them.

So lets be honest and answer some simple yes or no questions ok?

1) No

2) No

3) No

That was easy.

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Well, we disagree..there are plenty of Rangers who can say yes to all three and there are plenty of stackers that can say no to all 3.

Ive done them all but it certainly wasnt my ranger skills helping me, thats what i have issue with. Not that i cant do some of the good stuff in game if i tag along with my guild, because i can. Its just apart from my rifleman skills i cannot contribute.

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Maxanto wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
As someone pointed out to me in a PM...it doesn't matter what we want anyway...the devs will do what THEY want.

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I read that and got very angry at first Calc. I think that is a terrible viewpoint for a corr to have. You are here to represent our profession, not for popularity or to have a cool signature.

Now having said that. I do not believe thats your intention.

We need you to be strong for us. To be professional and articulate enough so that THEY know what WE want. That is your responcibility as Corr. Never give up hope man you are our only option when dealing with these people. I have been a ranger off and on since day 1. I have pretty much given up, I just pray you are not like me.

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I understand, and that comment may have been out of place (along with many of my posts today...I apologize for that). Paks covered things pretty nicely, so I won't elaborate too much more. I haven't given up. Ask Serraphin, I am the eternal hopeful . But, on the other side of the coin, I don't have any false hopes. I know and accept that the revamp (will come someday and) will not please 100% of us, nor will any one of us get 100% of what we want.

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I personally back you 100% man. I have played since day 1 and I know how these devs are. No breaks, no cancels I am here still playing nearly every day.

In all honestly you are all we have calc. Without you going to those corr boards we are truely fu'barred! Pak, Owen /salute to you both!

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Owen-Lars wrote:
Ive done them all but it certainly wasnt my ranger skills helping me, thats what i have issue with. Not that i cant do some of the good stuff in game if i tag along with my guild, because i can. Its just apart from my rifleman skills i cannot contribute.

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In that vein, no, being a Ranger has not helped me in any of those situations.

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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BioEngine wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Phenix1050 wrote:
okay, Ranger skills are limited from 2/3rds of the COMBAT game. Let's not split hairs here, Calc.

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Let's not over exaggerate, either. There is NOTHING in this game that I can't do becuase I chose Ranger.

EDIT: I guess spelling isn't my thing today.

Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 09-08-2005 09:08 AM

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Can you defeat a fully templated combat character one on one?

Can you get hit through an entire fight with the Necrosis mobs and live?

Can you stand up to CL 83 NPC's at factional bases without it being "too close for comfort?"

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Who can guarantee success in any of those situations? I have had successes and failures in every one of those situations, with and without my Ranger character.

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Ok, going on what someone else said. This is about combat. Because you choose Ranger, depending on how much Ranger you take determines how much weaker you will be during combat. To drop one box of marksman or brawler and their related elite and hybrid professions for a Ranger skill means that you will be losing combat modifiers that you cannot get back. The fact of the matter is, there is no "can" and "can't." It is the degree of effectiveness. If you pick Master Ranger / Master of a non-hybrid combat profession, you will not be able to obtain the base accuracy modifier in order to equal most of the Elite creature defenses. Same with equal-in-level NPC's. This is because your skill points are limited. Therefore, our restrictions on "that trap can only affect creatures!" and "concealment from npc's is simply a bug" statement by Thunderheart would mean that we can only be successful on an individual basis in creature combat. When our guild goes on Avatar fights and such, I deal more damage because a) I choose my weapon wisely, b) I eat and drink to make up for what Ranger lacks, whereas other professions would just stack on theirs, c) I shoot someone when they are knocked down.

Now, take a Master Ranger. No other skills. Can they kill any creature in the game, single-handedly? Because I doubt it. They would have a base defense modifier of 10 for melee and ranged combat, and an arguably working +25 to accuracy versus creatures. No skill tapes will help, because there is no base accuracy stat on which that builds. Same with foods and drinks. They could only use Gralinyn (sp?) juice, and that will only be about half of the defensive modifier of, say, an Ancient Bull Rancor, nevermind a Canyon Krayt. The level difference determines where on the weapon's range of min and max damage the gun will deal, so the weapon being used by a CL 54 character against a CL 83 creature will deal it's minimum damageminus the difference in defense modifier versus accuracy modifier. Then you have to consider the Ancient Bull Rancor's health regeneration rate, and whether or not that player's dps can exceed it is arguable at this point in this example. So, you should be able to tell that the level system introduced artifical combat proficiency, but the fact of the matter is all of the professions except for Bio-engineer and Ranger received or already had combat modifiers to reflect that ability. How effective would you be in your beliefs of Ranger's viability in combat in general, nevermind PvCreature, if we did not receive the Health and CL increase that we were originally denied?

Since you made the point to even think that I was being political about your previous post, I'll finish breaking it down, that far part was just the part that I disagreed with the most, and the reason why I didn't apply for the correspondant position.

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Maxanto wrote:

In real life there are Rangers. I have known quite a few when I was in the army. These are the guys they send into enemy lines to scout and set up opp stations...sometimes even excucation.

In SW there were 2 kinds I can think of. One were the antirian rangers and the other were imperial scouts.

In reality and in star wars they are all the same.... highly specialized militiary forces with a deep understanding of survivle and stealth. IMHO rangers should be excellent at survivle as well as recon and warfare. We are in the middle of the GCW. Do you think they had rangers that went out skinning hides for the empire? Or out tracking rebels to where they hid?

To me its obvious the direction we should go. I just hope the devs see it too.

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The first thing you need to realize is that the game and real life are not the same. The producers have said in person that they take liberties with reality, and with Star Wars canon so that they can have a game that's more fun to play. Playing an imperial storm trooper wouldn't be fun if you died in one shot, neither would it be fun if you were a rebel trooper either.

Also, don't compare military rangers with SWG rangers, you can bet that military rangers don't harvest meat, hides or bone off creatures for domestic use. Nor do they throw traps that only work on creatures, and while they can probably be a little more effective negotiation rough terrain, that is not specifically one quarter of their skillset. In reality and Star Wars Galaxies, they are very different, one is a highly specialized military unit, and the other is a butcher.

Perhaps the direction for you is obvious, but then you'll want to tell that to Blixtev who specifically said, while standing 3 feet away from me, "I mean, who the hell knows what a Star Wars Ranger is supposed to be?" That's the kind of insight one goes to FanFest for. What will happen is that we'll be told what a Star Wars Ranger is supposed to be, and before we even have any clue that they're even looking at the profession, there will be patch notes on TC. It's likely that they'll come to this conclusion after reading the stickies here and then doing their own thing anyway that they will consider fun.

The whole "Devs will do what Devs want, no questions to be asked" is why we need to have these threads available for them to read.

About the current state and mindset and concerns of the Ranger profession, not the "do a search for them" issues from months, nay years ago.