Ranger Archive
Thread: Limiting us from 2/3 of the game.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Where have i ever said that?
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Sorry bud I was agreeing wholeheartedly. I just put the banging my head against a wall, because it seems like evry coorespondent we've had except Owen feels like we should just be hunters. That and the fact that I've stated this opinion many times heh.
Well just the threads you've started today on us being creature-centric seem to lend credence to this.....wouldn't you agree?
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Sorry bud I was agreeing wholeheartedly. I just put the banging my head against a wall, because it seems like evry coorespondent we've had except Owen feels like we should just be hunters. That and the fact that I've stated this opinion many times heh.
I think Calc wants us to be unique, is all. I'm fairly sure he thinks that a Ranger should have the ability to participate in any part of the game. Where everybody seems to be getting buggered up is in the difficulty of defining what a "role" is. Calc, if I understand him correctly, simply wants us to be different from the other combat profession. He wants us to be unique, which is a good goal. But I don't think that means that he's saying that Ranger should be limited from other content. I think the prospect of being a generic combat profession (like, for example, Rifleman) is what Calc is trying to rally against.
I'll fight with Calc to prevent us from being bland and having no cool content of our own, but I will also fight to ensure that Ranger has a role in ALL areas of combat.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Where have i ever said that?
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Sorry bud I was agreeing wholeheartedly. I just put the banging my head against a wall, because it seems like evry coorespondent we've had except Owen feels like we should just be hunters. That and the fact that I've stated this opinion many times heh.
Well just the threads you've started today on us being creature-centric seem to lend credence to this.....wouldn't you agree?
I do not think that we should be creature only nor do I wish to be a BH with traps (spec ops ranger). Frankly, I want to be the go to guy for hunting animals, but I certainly don't want to be creature only. I made the Creautre Centric post because people (obvioulsy including yourself) thought that some of us wanted to only be able to fight creatures, and I don't think that is what ANYONE wants, so I tried to clarify it.
Gotcha. I don't want to be a BH with traps either. I just think that with some enhancement we can be a happy blend, and very unique mind you, of what many of us here want.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Phenix1050 wrote:
okay, Ranger skills are limited from 2/3rds of the COMBAT game. Let's not split hairs here, Calc.
Let's not over exaggerate, either. There is NOTHING in this game that I can't do becuase I chose Ranger.
EDIT: I guess spelling isn't my thing today.
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 09-08-2005 09:08 AM
While that's true, what Ranger skills help you survive in any way in the Avatar? Or down in the Caverns where camo doesn't work? Or against Necrosis? Or in any high end PvNPC or PvP combat? I agree, I can (and do) participate in most things in the game, and I'm a Master Ranger/Master Rifleman (and have been for a long time now). However, when I'm in a group especially doing some of that high end stuff, I can guarantee that the skills I'm using when we encounter high end NPCs (or players if PvP) are not from Ranger in a general sense. Sure, my crawl speed might help me get in position a little faster for the opening shots assuming we're outdoors and I have time to do that, and /areatrack might be helpful 1 time to get a general direction if we're hunting stuff, but in GENERAL, Ranger really doesn't do much to help you in vast portions of the game where the content is high end, elite / boss mobs, NPCs, etc.
You could argue that a crafter can do exactly that too. I've taken CL1 crafter friends out with me, grouped so they get the artificial CL80 to mitigate any damage that DOES hit them, and we've taken down some high end creatures (krayts, kimos, etc). MY Ranger skills helped me in that case, but their crafter skills were as useful to them in that situation as my Ranger skills were to me up on the Avatar or the Vette or down in the DWB... 
^^^ Like you my friend Ranger skills get me nothing on the Avatar, Vette, DWB, the caverns, etc...
Ranger brings nothing to the table then its just me, my rifle, and my Rangerexperience at staying alive.
So living the life style I gots plenty of that, all I want are those 140 skill points to bring something to the table everywhere is game and not just in the wilds of some planet.
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Where have i ever said that?
Rancorrider4 wrote:
Sorry bud I was agreeing wholeheartedly. I just put the banging my head against a wall, because it seems like evry coorespondent we've had except Owen feels like we should just be hunters. That and the fact that I've stated this opinion many times heh.
Well just the threads you've started today on us being creature-centric seem to lend credence to this.....wouldn't you agree?
There was a thread yesterday in which it was suggested that we remove the harvesting skill from Ranger, and in another post it was suggested that since hunters have no place in the Star Wars universe that we should be stealthy soldiers. Are these concepts you are agreeing with or disagreeing with?
The consensus I am seeing in this thread and the other is that Rangers should remain creature-centric but our skills should not be limited to creature-only. In other words we should keep the hunting, tracking, and survival lines, everything that pidgeon-holes us as masters of the natural world, but be able to use those skills vs. NPCs and players. Do not remove hunter/wilderness expert from our profession and redefine us as special forces soldiers. I personally think that if we keep and power up the "creature-centric" skills we have and do not make them creature-only then we will be able to function like the "special forces" idea that many have. But the problem with saying "we do not want to be creature centric" is that it implies we want that aspect removed from our profession, which I know I personally do not.
I think we are all getting nervous. We have seen the CHs revamped, the Squad Leader revamp is already on TC. Will it be our turn soon? If so, what do we want? We know from the CH revamp that is it completely possible they will take our skills and how they work and make them something completely different. Is that what we want for Ranger? Do we want our creature focus to be removed, to no longer harvest or have the "hunter" persona and instead become something completely different? Or do we want to keep what we have and have it powered up to a useful level?
I guess I have to agree with Calc, Drak, and Phen(?) on this one. I want to keep Tracking, Wayfaring, Frontiering and Trapping. I want to remain a creature/wilderness centric Ranger. I do not want to be prevented from using these skills on NPCs or players if I come into combat with them but I do not mind that hunting and wilderness survival is the focus of my profession.
The combat mods have been mentioned in this thread as well. Personally (and I know this is a point of contention), I do not mind if our mods are creature-only. HOWEVER, if they ARE creature-only they must be worth it. A Ranger/Carbineer MUST be better at killing creatures than a BH/Carbineer. If a BH/Carbineer is just as good at killing creatures as they are at killing NPCs, and a Ranger/Carbineer is just as good as the BH at killing creatures, but worse than them at killing NPCs then we will feel cheated and our profession will feel "not worth it." If we want to be the best at creature combat then creature-only mods is one way to do this. We may want to call our BH/carbineer friend to help us with an NPC that is troublesome, but they might want to call us to help them with a particularly large creature that is troublesome, knowing that we are the best at killing that particular enemy.
If any of those arguments made sense I will be amazed.
Reading it back makes my eyes spin. I guess what I want to say is that the potential is there that we may be completely scrapped and redone. Is that what we want?
Rancorrider4 wrote:Gotcha. I don't want to be a BH with traps either. I just think that with some enhancement we can be a happy blend, and very unique mind you, of what many of us here want.
Okay, this one is much easier to respond to - I can just type /agree!
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 09-08-2005 10:58 AM
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
I am just curious why people think that making Ranger creature centric will prevent us from utilizng 2/3 of the content in this. Feel free to discuss.
EDIT: What I am asking for is for y'all to show me HOW NPCs are 2/3 of the game.
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 09-08-2005 08:41 AM
I always broke SWG play into three parts.
PvE- Critter / NPC interaction and combat.
PvP- Interaction, competition and combat with other players
Quests -Story based missions with a reward at the end or a momento of your journy.
SinceI do most of these every timeIplay I'd say that im not limited in what i can do. ROFLMAO if anything i'm better at some areas than other players! Were some players have to fight there way through an areaI can just cammo and walk on by.At other times I can use tacticsI that other players never thought of because I'm a Ranger and have had to overcome the short commings of my chosen path.
Like my Sig says " Improvise, Adapt, and overcome. "
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
As someone pointed out to me in a PM...it doesn't matter what we want anyway...the devs will do what THEY want.
Ok here is where i stand:
Its not a case of my template is limited from 2/3rds of the combat arena, its that my ranger skills are limited from 2/3rds of the combat game. Sure my template can work and i can shoot npcs, i can shoot players but my ranger skills are counting for nothing as soon as i shoot at an npc or player.
Thats the problem, not that i cant engage in it as a templated playe,r because i can, its that all i get for 140 skill points is 26 combat levels as soon as me or my group engage npcs or pvp. Its just not on.
We can be great creature hunters without being creature limited.
I supose i just want to have my template work in all areas of the game. To me there is no reason or desire to focus a profession around only one area of the combat arena when we will never be sufficiently enough rewarded for that limitation without throwing everything out of balance.
I enjoy going hunting with friends, its great fun and playing into the hunting role is great. The problem is though in a game this large and with content spread over such a wide plate you need to be able to spread your interests and delve into different areas of the game to keep the interest levels up with the masses.
Now yeah i agree even as a master ranger i can engage in pvp, but like i mentioned earlier, that isnt the point. The point is in a game so large as this with limited content it makes no sense to only have 3/5 of your template count towards engaging with npc and player content. There is no reason whyour ranger skillscannotcontributeto all areas so we can hunt, pvp, battle whenever we want. Its isnt a case of only creature only contribution or everything but creature contribution. Its creature only contribution or all combat contribution.
If we all have choices then its makes us more unique in how we play our rangers. If someone wants to only ever kill creatures then so be it they can. If someone wants to only have their ranger skills contribute towards pvp then so be it. Choices are good. Limitation is bad.
Yep, PvP is 1/3 of the enemies in this game, one of three types that is, and NPCs are another 1/3.
The only aspects that affect PvP at this time are terrain negotiation, tracking, and our wonderful +10 to melee and ranged defense at Master Ranger. Do you really want to argue that HTFB's affect PvP, or burst run efficiency,and so do forageable items? 'Cause those are the only ones left that I can think of.
But you are still going to communicate our requests for our revamp, right?
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
As someone pointed out to me in a PM...it doesn't matter what we want anyway...the devs will do what THEY want. This is nothing to let feelings get hurt over. I was simply trying understand what some of you meant in your statements, and I think we cleared that up.
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 09-08-2005 10:58 AM