Ranger Archive
Thread: Disbanding Camp Macro using /duel
GrigsOnia wrote:
I will not put down kerico for what he has done,I myself have wanted to do the same thing. I hate taking all the time to gain camping experience for two reasons; one, group camping doesnt work so well anymore. 95% of the hunting groups i have been with lately have NOT wanted to camp, because they dont need to, and it is a giant waste of time to them. And number two, camping on a whole is very boring. Crafting camps takes a lot of resources better used for other things (for those of us who ranger was our first choice and cant afford to be burning resources left and right), and setting them up and taking them down for exp is a boring affair because there is nothing you can do during that time besides sit... and sit.... and sit.... and you get the idea. They need to either make camps more interesting or make an alternative way (like foraging) to get wilderness survival experience.
Try fishing
. Although grinding it still gets boring. Just be glad they dropped the xp requirement.
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
brandedglacier wrote:
That in itself seems like an exploit to me. If you can 'play' the game without actually being at the game, you've got to be doing something that wasn't intended.
Ackis wrote:
Would you rather a system where it's really complicated and only the "uber" people can do it, or a system where everyone can do it?
Ok, I can't believe you asked that question.. I also don't know what response you expected soI will stay neutral..
I personally would like a system which is really complicated and only the 'uber' people can do it right away but the 'normal' people would have to work really hard and improve their techniques to achieve the end goal of the system.. Otherwise what is the point in being a good gamer and what is the point in playing the game at all, you may as well put the cut scenes on a CD and sell them instead of the game, because you already know you can complete it and that it's not going to be hard doing it if the age limit on the game is 3+. There is no reason why I should be limited by the limitations of other poorer players, if some players can't do something it should not be made easier the players should improve.. Imagine this..
#1 - An interviewer in a nuclear power plant is looking for a professional person for a job maintaining the plants safety exuipment, but the application form is capable of being completed by everyone... The person accepted for the job is one Homer Jay Simpson, although comical on T.V.in a real life situation the vapourising of millions of people due to incompetance is not a laughing matter.
#2 - An examiner in a school gives out a final paper to his medicalstudents, but this paper is capable of being completed by every student easily giving everyone 90% or higher on the paper and allowing them to all become doctors.. Eventually the person employed as the local doctor is one Nick Rivera, and again although funny on T.V. an incompetant doctor in real life is not a good thing.
(simpsons character references in case you are one of the veggie gamers I'm talking about)
What I'm trying to say isthat making things easy enough for everyone to complete makes the people who can't complete anything look 'uber' and the people who are 'uber' look like everyone else.. Although some people might think that's a good thing because you can't get people in the game who are only beatable by other 'uber' people, some people might think that being beaten by a complete IQ black hole with a mousewho manages to bash his F-Keys in a random order and somehow fluke a victory because he is 'balanced' might be a little humiliating, especially if that player then exclaims that he is 'th3 ub32 1337' of the gaming world and is unbeatable.
To be honest, I think 'balancing the game' is another way of saying 'we're trying to satisfy even the people who suck' ... So, ask yourselves this macro fiends...
You see one of these 'uber' gamers outside in the wilds building camps, crafting traps and generally playing the game until 4am one night, the next night they are there till 3am and the next night and the night after that because they are trying to max out their character... You turn on your AFK macro , fall asleep and wake up refreshed the next day having completed the same ammount of the profession in virtually no time at all..
Do you think you have actually achieved anything ?... At all...?I'll answer that one for you..
You have, you have achieved what is on par with someone playing a game for 40 hours in a week and getting to level 10 only to see his friend get the same game a month or so laterand enter a cheat code to allow him to enter at level 11 in about 3 mins of actual in game time..
So .. In conclusion , I would like to see all part time gamers be rewarded as part time gamers and all hardcore gamers rewarded as hardcore gamers not the other way round as it is now... I can't think of anything which really sets me apart from a macro grinding holo freak apart from money and pride... The latter being one thing that they will never achieve of course.
/ramble off;
/rant off;
/ui action toolbarSlot1;
Mac_Leod wrote:
Enbow wrote:
Macros were placed to make repeated tasks less dull- not to master professions over night while you sleep- which is exactly what this exploit provides.
If that's true, then what about all of the crafting professions? Almost all the crafters I've seen have afk macroed their way to master.
Unless something has changed in the past few weeks, it is not possible to AFK grind a crafting profession without the help of a third-party macro program, which (I think at least) are against the EULA. If you are not using one of these programs, you can script your crafting tool to do almost everything except add the resources. This means that you have to be present to double-click the resources for every item you make.
Yes - Sony has said that macroing is acceptable (that is, using the in-game macroing system), but they have not, as of yet, included a /command to disband the camp. We can take this one of two ways -- either it is an oversight on the part of the devs (and this could be the case), or they don't want people to disband campsprogramatically. If the latter is the case,then you are using a macro to circumvent an aspect of game design to your own advantage,and it is an exploit.
And no, it won't take you a month to grind out the survival tree. Again, all you have to do is use the camps (see above). I did it without a big PA behind me, and tons of others have done it as well.
But the bottom line is this - the thing that makes you a true master ranger is not the title that you get after climbing the 4 trees, it's your experience with the profession. You don't get this experience by riding around dathomir mask-scented to get easy scouting xp, and you don't get this experience trapping a faamba for six hours straight, and you don't get this experience macro-camping with an alt (or for that matter, camped with sixteen other lee7 do0ds in front of the Theed bridges). Ranger is a very functional profession from start-to-finish, so why rush through it if your intention is to be a master ranger?
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
That was damn funny
BountyBlunter wrote:
What I'm trying to say isthat making things easy enough for everyone to complete makes the people who can't complete anything look 'uber' and the people who are 'uber' look like everyone else.. Although some people might think that's a good thing because you can't get people in the game who are only beatable by other 'uber' people, some people might think that being beaten by a complete IQ black hole with a mousewho manages to bash his F-Keys in a random order and somehow fluke a victory because he is 'balanced' might be a little humiliating, especially if that player then exclaims that he is 'th3 ub32 1337' of the gaming world and is unbeatable.
To be honest, I think 'balancing the game' is another way of saying 'we're trying to satisfy even the people who suck' ... So, ask yourselves this macro fiends...
.
BountyBlunter wrote:I can't think of anything which really sets me apart from a macro grinding holo freak apart from money and pride... The latter being one thing that they will never achieve of course.
not to rain on your parade Bountyblunter....but you misspelled monkey
other than that..../salute....damn good post....couldnt have said it better myself
Message Edited by AgonThalia on 04-19-2004 01:14 PM
Iseult wrote:
Erryk wrote:
Iseult wrote:
ps. survival xp is not a gate for the solo player. I'm pretty much a solo player and I've maxxed my survival xp.
explain this. and please, hold the BS--I'm allergic
and while you're at it name one profession besides merchant and BH that can't be mastered in under a week? Why should ranger be special?
no bs here - just use the camps - go hunting, get wounded, etc..., set up a camp to heal,
complete waste of time. even with my gimped wookiee armor and buffs (and sometimes i don't even buff) -- i don't get wounded unless i get diseased -- which camps don't help anyway. And before you ask--I hunt the BIG stuff.
disband the camp, repeat the process. Need to call a vehicle or droid, don't want to waste 15 seconds waiting for the thing to pop up, drop a camp, pull the vehicle or droid, disband the camp.
Droids = waste of time and money. I call my vehicle in the outpost or city and have no need to recall it unless it gets destroyed. Last time i checked even the high level camps don't have garages.
Making camo kits and you want to max out the charges - drop a camp, craft near the station (or pull a crafting droid), experiment on the charges, disband camp, etc.... Go fishing, craft camps / traps that you need - don't buy them in crates from someone else....
camo = useless. I can't take one step in range of a krayt dragon or high lvl rancor w/o it breaking -- i may as well just use mask scent. also equipment crafting stations are in the 4th lvl camping box -- how's that going to help someone grinding camping??
It's really not that difficult and it doesn't require some uber-complicated AFK macro and an alternate account to do. Unless you're completely inept, resources for camps are really easy to come by, so what not use them?
cdef pistols and grey gubaki are incredibly easy to come by. when was the last time you used either? If something is not useful to my gaming experience -- i'm not going to waste my precious little time with it.
And why would you want to master a profession in a week? It seems to me that lots of people here play this game like it was a single-player game. That is, max-out everything as soon as possible with as little effort as possible, then they whine when they don't understand how things work, they say that there's no content, and they complain that profs are borked, butthey haven't even spent enough time to figure out how well the professions do work.
I can tell you the total ins and outs of every one of my 22 mastered professions. I can also tell you the fastest way to make your way through the B.S. to get to master. the fact is--the only way to enjoy this game at the solo level is to have at least 2 profession masteries.
Survival XP a gate to solo players? What? I mastered ranger before the big holo craze, and before I was in a big PA, and I did it solo. And you know what - I actually had the survival tree done before I had the trapping tree done. Why? Because I actually used the camps as I moved towards master ranger. Yep - I used the camps - as simple as that.
good for you -- not everyone -- you.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
Even the macro you wrote at the bottom of your post is flawed (why use /ui action toolbarslot when I can use /macro name and save a toolbar slot and lag time?). What SOE has been done is prevent people from a) selling their macros/programs on sites and b) preventing people from cheating by making many repetitive things easier to do.BTW, I "ground" master artisan, merchant and droid engineer without using macros of any kind.
Only broke one mouse doing it too.
Erryk wrote:
camo = useless. I can't take one step in range of a krayt dragon or high lvl rancor w/o it breaking -- i may as well just use mask scent. also equipment crafting stations are in the 4th lvl camping box -- how's that going to help someone grinding camping??
Umm... you can get a droid with a crafting station in it and use that to experiment -- I've only mastered three professions and I know this, but maybe when you know the ins and outs of 22 professions (right), you forget about some things. Of course, droids are useless so who would even bother to have a droid with a crafting station. All those doctors who have droids out when they are buffing you so you can hunt solo without getting wounded at all (right) -- they probably just have their droids out because they're lonely.
Camps also healHAM damage by the way -- maybe you have some source of l337-do0d-m@st3r3d-22-pr0fessI0ns-@nd-wr0t3-mys3lf-@-c0ol-s!g-t0o ub3r buffs, but mine expire after three hours, and after getting poisoned by, say,five anglers in a row, it's nice to be able to drop a camp and have the healing bonus kickin so that when the poison does finally begin to wear off, I'm not wasting even more time sitting around in the wilderness watching mystats regenerate. but, of course, you probably have some l337-do0d-m@st3r3d-22-pr0fessI0ns-@nd-wr0t3-mys3lf-@-c0ol-s!g-t0o skillset that helps you avoid getting poisoned just as easily as you apparently avoid getting wounded.
Buffed or not, time is money for me, and the ability to drop a camp and have it boost my healing rates or save me those interminible 15 seconds while I call my vehicle if it autostores,or even havethe campclear away 5 or 10 wound points without having to endure the l337-d0Od-tumble fest that every med center has become (another in-game pleasure brought to you by, guess what, macro'ing) makes them very usefull to me. Of course, I'm not a l337-do0d-m@st3r3d-22-pr0fessI0ns-@nd-wr0t3-mys3lf-@-c0ol-s!g-t0o, so I'm probably doing things the wrong way....
And no, the crafting stations won't help anyone grinding ranger (you can't experiment on camps and trapsremember -- oh wait... you probably forgot that too), but they do help if you're in the field and someone in your group needs to craft, say, a weapon repair kit (where you really want to experiment to get the maximum possible effectiveness). Oh, wait, weapon repair kits are useless too - I forgot (me and my crazy three-mastered professions again!). But I'm sure that there is something in the game that is craftable and usefull too -- oh, never mind, we're still trying to get the devs to add tons of m@d l0o7 so that all the l337-do0d-m@st3r3d-22-pr0fessI0ns-@nd-wr0t3-mys3lf-@-c0ol-s!g-t0ocan just solo rancors all night long and loot everything they would ever want or need.
But, finally, did it ever occur to some of you that ranger (and many ofthe elite professions for that matter) were not meant to be solo professions? I know that Ranger is perhaps the one profession that most lends itself to solo'ing -- indeed, the group harvesting penalty really encourages us to solo most of the time -- but the majority ofour technologies (traps, camps, camo, and,yes, evenrescue) actually work even better in a group situation. Should it be any surprise, then, that the players who do bother group have the advantage of getting through the survival line faster? I mean, why don't we turn this whole discussion around and say that camping macros and the various other exploits employed by the two-day wonders actually penalize those of us who seek out and hunt with other players.
Oh, but of course, other players are definitely no fun and most certainly a waste of time (unless, that is, you need your wife's alt account to help you macro-grindsurvival in four nights), so we should get rid of them as soon as possible too -- wow, who let other players into this game?!.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Pistoleer
Bloodfin
Ackis wrote:
Writing complex macros in this game isn't all that easy. Trust me.
Yup the macro is flawed, I wrote it on the bottom of my post in order to demonstrate the simplest way of looping a set of commandsto grind out a profession without actually doing any work.. I was not trying to offer up a perfect macro... The most worrying thing you said here was,
"b) preventing people from cheating by making many repetitive things easier to do."
Now , I don't understand what that is meant to mean.. To me that looks like your saying that I would be cheating if I 'groud' a repetative task manually and you couldnt be bothered doing it so fell behind on your character so SoE included a macro system so anyone could do the grinding just as easy as the manual grinder... I think that constitutes SoE adding in the cheat, not adding in something to prevent it.. Have you ever played a single player RPG and had to walk around a town getting items from a few people and then going delivering the final item set to someone ?.. Then you do it in the next town and the next , and the next to eventually get the sword which will allow you to slay the big boss...? Lets say you wrote a piece of code or used a cheat which just gave you the final item set and you just needed to deliver the final product without doing the work to get the sword, then you took that sword and dueled another character who didnt use that cheat and won, you then have the satisfaction of knowing you 'owned' him without doing the work and the poor guy lying dead by maybe a fluke victory is thinking that all the time he spent getting that sword was wasted.. Do you really think that is what gaming is about ? It's about work and reward, not just reward.
There is NO point to being a good gamer. Games are here for people to have fun. People, not just you. This is a game, and not real life. Hence it has to be relatively fair. When I write a macro, I share it with everyone, in fact there's a thread on the WH boards with a lot of great macros in it.
Ok, my blood pressure must stay low...There is a point in being a good gamer when the enjoyment you get from the game is by your rewards and success. Games are here for people to have fun, not just me, but the fact is that it's not just me who's fun your spoiling by AFK grinding out professions.. There are alot of people who play this game because they like it, and there are alot of people who go hardcore on this game because they want to get more enjoyment out of it , that enjoyment is denied when you have to compete with people essentially cheating their way to the top.. Thus all of the REAL gamers out there who like to have fun by completing the mundane task, or going speaking to the NPC who only gives you a Felt Tip Pen as a reward are stuck in a world full of people who reap the same rewards without doing the work.. Things like this spoil the game for people like me, so please don't single me out as being the only one who doesn't agree with your style of casual gaming.. Again let me draw you to another set of scenarios.
Person one works in a shop for 20 hours a week stacking shelves, person two works in a shop for 40 hours a week stacking shelves and person three works in the shop for 1 hour a week operating the shelf stacking robot... Out of those three people who would you promote out of shelf stacking ?.. By your thinking all three would be eligable for promotion, as work does not relate directly to reward. I know I shouldn't compare real life to a game, but if you look at any situation in a game or real life.. Your just plain wrong man - if anything I would promote the robot and fire the guy who operated it to open up a little more work for the 20 hour a week guy.
Character one walks into the pub of an RPG city and sits down to begin casting magic on themselves at a slow rate to increase their charaxcters potential and they do this for 6 hours, Character two walks into the pub of an RPG city and stands at the bar talking to the barman raising his speachcraft skills at a slow rate to increase his character and he does this for 6 hours.. Character three walks into the pub, sits between the two characters and runs a macro for the next six hours and gains both speachcraft and magic skill in the same time as the other two people... Who deserves the reward ?
You achieve the same amount by using an afk macro as the person who sat there grinding until 4 am in one night, but guess what? You're smarter because you were able to go out for a beer, spend some quality time with the girlfriend (yes, people who play this game have lives!! *gasp*), or do other real life stuff.
And that little gem finishes of the above rant quite nicely, yes you get time to go and and live your real life... So do I.. AFTERI have spent hours gaining levels and making money, I have a life too and am not just sat on my PC for 24 hours a day (more like 15 with work, yes im mid-twenties and have a job) You are NOT smater than me , you are laughing at me for spending time doing something I enjoy to gain a reward which is then stripped from me by people like you who gain my reward without doing the work..
I use macros whenever I can, and I afk macro. I afk macroed all the entertainer profs except ID, afk macroed some CH, and afk macroed a few skill boxes of scout camping xp and about 15k of ranger camping xp. I will continue to afk macro as long as it's allowed in the game, and will continue to afk macro those aspects of the game that I find dull and boring.
Congratulations... You completed some CH while AFK ? I presume you mean stood around outside a city using a ranged weapon to pull a creature's aggro and then setting your pet on it.. Seriously congratulations, now go to the CH forum and allow them to hail you for the same achievment. You will find alot more people like me(us, heh) than you think. Some CH's will have spent alot of time and effort on their characters , and I'm sure they would enjoy you going and telling them that you managed to complete what they did while you were down the pub with your girlfriend and they shouldn't chastise you because it's only a game and you have a flie.. Some people's lives involve games aswell you know.
The biggest argument that I hear is that by grinding/macroing a profession you don't learn it. With camping xp, what's there to learn? That you'll never need to put down another camp again. With trapping xp, what do you learn? That you could've killed the mob in the time it took you to throw the trap, so you'll never have to throw the trap again.
Yes, you don't learn it.. You don't learn the profession, you don't play the game.. You don't deserve your rewards as you made no effort to earn them... You should still be a novice.
There are already too many time sinks in this game.
Oh yah, "Ouch, I bent my wookiee" and "Dear Lord, protect this rocket house and all those who dwell in the rocket house".
What you call time sinks ... I call the game ... What you call the game ... I call the end of gaming as gamers know it if your way of gaming becomes the standard ...
In conclusion , You may be able to go out and have a good time while others work their behinds off trying to actually play the game and still reap the same rewards..But PLEASE do not come on the forums of an RPG game and advertsie that you are doing this and I quote.
"You achieve the same amount by using an afk macro as the person who sat there grinding until 4 am in one night, but guess what? You're smarter because you were able to go out for a beer"
What you are saying is that you have a high class character which you ground out while not even playing the game, and that you are smarter than everyone who actually plays the game because you got the same reward as they didbut didn't even have to do the work, because you have a life and they don't...
Now ... Back to my monkey making.