CUEmu - Thread Posts

Almagill

Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:55 am

One other thing to remember is that we're not one dimensional characters but multifaceted (?sp) in that, while we are first and foremost Rangers, we are also riflemen, swordsmen, TK's, commando, BH, etc. It's that secondary role that will shape the Ranger part of you in combat.

Yah, I think possibly Ranger needs some help in placing it within the combat arena, but without a serious weapon skill beside you, your most 'uber' ranger is going to be toast, fast.

Another way of thinking of it is, for example, when you are in space. You're a pilot there, that's what defines your ability to contribute to the activities in that sphere. When you go into combat it's your specialist weapon skill that defines you with the talents of BEING a Ranger that gives it finesse.

(Any guessing which class I think would always come out tops if combat was more strategic and actually needed a bit of thought put into it other than spam-special spam-special spam-special ?

)

New HOWTO: Gather Milk, Fish, Mollusk, etc.

Remember Rangers. Broke camp and took the Long Walk 15/11/05

Keeping it Real, Ranger Style

Yivvits and MrBubble - THE podcast

\\\\\\MY OTHER SIG IS A BUMPER STICKER\\\\\\

Oculus

Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:16 am

#41

Owen-Lars wrote:
FWIW, the Sandbox Rangers (as well as some very gracious non-Rangers) fought a valiant fight to get teh Rangers included in the CU, but ultimately the devs decided they would rather wait and give us a proper Revamp rather than what could turn out to be bandaids.
Although i hate to say it, this statement very much hits the mark. Ive put my all into getting us in there in some shape or form but (im not having a go at the devs) its like talking to a brick wall. The devs simply dont have enough time to revamp our profession within the time frame of the combat upgrade so all they can do is stick to their guns and put up a brick wall about what gets a revamp and what doesnt

True, true. All I want is that they don't just skip Ranger thinking there's nothing there that needs balancing once they do the pass on HAM, MOBs etc. There is...

The fact that you can't stick a trap or a state special on high-end PvE is going to be looked at, I hope, I just want them to remember our traps when they do.

Well, I guess since we hardly use them we could wait for the Ranger revamp... it's just that I'm sick and tired of being ignored, or reading posts by Devs that more or less indicate that they have no clue about our profession.

Oku Kee'lus

Master Ranger | Master Carbineer

-LONEGUNMAN-

Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:27 am

#42

Not a combat profession?

Part of Master Ranger skill perks (last time I bothered checking):

Melee Defense+10

Ranged Defense+10

Still a token gesture from the devs, butit couldbeused as a foot in the door...

-LoneGunman-
* 12 Point Armorsmith * Master Tailor * Master Merchant *
Dead Center of Corellia - Highest Quality Armor, 4 Socket and BE Clothing for all Races, PowerUPs, Class B Stim and Wound Crates.

Nemo0

Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:52 pm

#43

Phenix1050 wrote:

-LONEGUNMAN- wrote:

Not a combat profession?

Part of Master Ranger skill perks (last time I bothered checking):

Melee Defense+10

Ranged Defense+10

Still a token gesture from the devs, butit couldbeused as a foot in the door...

Not really a good foot in the door, because dancers have almost the same defense mods as we do, and they are far from a combat profession.

The Alpha team has had a lot of thinking to do, whether or not now is the time to push for some changes in the CU, or whether pushing will only negatively affect us. Me personally, I think the CU is the time to address certiain issues with Rangers and get a few numbers tweaked. These would be "band-aid" fixes, but they would play a part in the overall vision of Ranger once we got our revamp. Stuff like added defense and stuff like that would really help give us a few skills that, when it came to revamp time, would help us say "look here, we already have some stuff that makes us combat-oriented, so here's where we want to expand our role."

My biggest worry is that if we get nothing in the CU, when the time for our revamp comes around, they're going to make camping and tracking a bit better, but do nothing to give us a role of our own and we'll still just be a Scout++ profession (that's my first computer science joke ever). I like camping and I think there are ways it can be done effectively (see: modular camping) but I think we can all agree that we don't want to be known just for our camping. There is so much more a Ranger can be and I worry that if we get ignored in the CU, we'll end up being a profession of nothing but support skills that are great in theory, but useless in practice.

I'm most worried by what will become of trapping. Despite the skill descriptions, I get the feeling that the Devs are going to make it a non-combat skill (read: automatic harvesters). Right now, I don't see how the Devs can argue that trapping is not a combat skill (you can only throw traps in combat, traps add combat status effects, using a trap outside of combat makes you enter combat, etc). The fact that they are indicates that they are going to do something else with that line. That worries me.

Not getting combat bonuses is bad (as most of us enter combat when we hunt and we are giving up a LOT of skill points that would easily make us better killers). Actually having a skill thatis already acombat skill ignored seems even worse to me. Not only do they seem to plan to avoid letting Rangers into combat, they seem to plan to remove all the combat abilities we already have.

Right now, we spend almost as many skill points just picking up Novice Ranger as a combat player spends to master an elite profession. Now, unless they make having anything past a single combat mastery pointless (which I doubt--they should be aiming for a system where dabbling is encouraged, as a skill based system should do), we will be quite bad off when we go fighting. Currently, we seem to have a good number of skills based around leading a hunt (one of our old titles even used to be Hunt Master). So we will go out trying to lead a hunt and yet we won't easily be able help out during the fight. That's like saying that the safari hunt leader is less capable of taking down an elephant than a military man who pays him to take him hunting. It might be true but it shouldn't always be true.

Lythender Nirou
Crazy Bothan

SolrFlare

Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:02 pm

#44

I have always viewed Ranger as a combat enhancer profession, not a combat profession. The original goal of Ranger was to have us as a Park Ranger style of profession. One that is a master of traversing the wild and assisting other players in their travels.

Because of the way the game has evolved, our role in that area has become all but useless. It started with mounts and has died since then. The fact that we are not included in the CU, while I want our revamp as soon as everyone, gives me hope that the devs want to maintain at least some of that original vision and not make us into the same old cookie cutter military style Ranger class that is every other game in existance.

Ranger is a profession that should tune, mold, and enhance a combat profession player into a master of the outdoors. Specializing that player to a certain role at the cost of losing some firepower flexability because of the skill points involved. Now, where the devs eventually decide to take us is up to them. But, as much as I hate waiting, it at least shows that by not being in the CU, Ranger won't become just another cookie cutter combat profession, but something unique. And, I think we all want that.

Besides, almost all of us have a combat profession of some sort. So, while Ranger itself won't be getting much, it is not like the CU won't bring anything to our table.

------------
Solr_Flare

Server: Chilastra
Character: Solarius Kerash
Profession: Master Ranger/Pistoleer

WildBil2Me

Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:16 pm

#45

Calculus_Entropy wrote:
We all know that the Combat Upgrade is the Dev's focus right now. They are busy trying to balance the math behind the combat system and are not concerned with adding new things to non-combat professions (no, Rangers are not a Combat Profession and will not become one with the CU). Does this remove all hope of love for the Rangers in the long run? No. Immediately following the CU, there will be a series of profession revamps and we are slated to be a part of those (there is no timeline set as of yet). Let's let the devs focus on the CU as we want them to focus on Rangers when the time comes.

Thanks for your patience guys!

As Calc suggests, at the end of the CU we may not see a huge shift within Rangerdom. What's important to remember, though, is that we've been (and still are) a very vocal community. Just because we won't be seeing sweeping changes to the way Ranger works coming out of the CU doesn't mean we won't ever see changes.

At this point, we've seen a number of very important documents come across our forum. Whether revolving around our para-millitary feelings, our Outdoorsman propopsals, Modular camps, ideas concerning trapping or even mission terminals Rangers have discussed alot and really built an idea of what the profession is and should be.

These ideas, though, don't require us to bea core combat profession. We may never see "/CreatureShot1" in our list of skills, but that doesn't mean we won't have a definitve impact on combat someday.

As it stands Ranger is not a "Combat Profession" it is simply combat oriented. As we've always said we are unique, there is no other profession like ours. We do not gain our ground in combat via special attacks (traps aside because most are broken) we gain it through our cunning. It's my hope that the Ranger Upgrade (that's what I'm calling it from now on) will strengthen our skills in this way. Maybe "/CreatureShot1" will never arrive but improved TN, better traps (that I think we should insist work on players and npcs), camps that act as staging grounds, beneficial forage skills, improved tracking, and maskscent/camo with improved reliability will! These skills can still cause sway in combat whether Ranger is a Combat Profession or not.

What I suggest to the Ranger community right now, is to keep on keeping on. Keep the great ideas flowing, keep the positive feelings up, keep the goal insight and don't waver. Our day will come! I sincerely trust the Dev Team to take our goals into account and to make the Ranger Upgrade as beneficial as it should be.

Col. Wyndinn Maer
Antarian Rangers: Wanderhome
SWGRanger.com

SynJesus

Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:16 pm

#46

I wonder if I could ever get a refund on the Strategy Guide i purchased when the game first came out .....

Has SOE thought about making my $20 even more useless?

Rhyeal

Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:41 pm

#47

$20? well, no. 20 bucks is lunch money to SOE Devs

Rhyeal Shadowblade :: Egone Thale :::: Riflemen :: Rangers :::: Ranger is a Lifestyle, Live it!
"No, I'm not a combat profession, I don't do that anymore."

Trobon18

Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:25 pm

#48

Ranger's are known for thier patience... we will survive

Sunsplitter

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:20 am

#49

Anyone here feel like Linus in "It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown"?

"Each year the Great Pumpkin rises out of the pumpkin patch that he thinks is the most sincere,"

"He's got to pick this one -- he's got to! I don't see how a pumpkin patch could be more sincere than this one."

"You'll be sorry if he comes!... Good grief, I said "if"! I meant WHEN! WHEN he comes!"

RETTEP - Master Ranger/Master Rifleman - Scylla, Twin Mountain Base - www.swg-tmb.com (offline) ** LONG LIVE THE RANGER **

BlakkStar

Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:29 am

#50

I checked, dancers only got +7 defense points compared to our 10. Your point is still valid though just being a fact checker.

Starsider: Blakk Star (Lost Child of the Ras'ka)- Master Ranger/TKM
Ahazi: Kojo Anonkye (Master of Ras'kan Martial Arts)- TKM/Stickfighter(Master Fencer)
Kettemoor: Underdog (Badass Bothan B-Boy)- Master Musician

Owen-Lars

Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:07 am

#51

Ive read all your posts and i agree with most. There is one thing though that i think we needs to be made clear. If we keep thinking of ranger as just an enhancer profession it is always going to be not worth skillpoints over a combat profession. If ranger makes us wield weapons of mass destruction then fair enough things will be on the up but the chances of that happening are extremely slim.

We are the only profession (other than scout) that cant perform our rolewithout a combat profession. This is what is wrong with our profession, we need to spend 232 skill points in order to achieve our primary goal, which atm is a hunter unfortunatly. This massive skill point hole is what needs looking at. In the same way creature handlers went into a combat role via scout, rangers should also go into a combat role via scout. Where creature handlers use creatures as weapons and tools, we use the environment, the wilderness, ingeneous ranger made tools (traps, auto-noose etc).

Ranger should be a viable profession on its own and be able to perform its role without having to pick up combat skills in the process. If you look past all the broken or dodgy skills we get as a ranger, you see the root of our problems and that is ranger simply requires far too much skill points and far too little returns. These skill points could be spent in combat related skills which a ranger and 90% of the population need to do what they want to do.

Why is ranger the only profession that cant peform its primary role with only its pre-requisits? I just think that ranger wasnt well thought out at launch and moved in the right direction it should of. This is what needs to change, the orientation around template enhancer and more towards giving us a big set of roles of our own, these would include doing damage, using the wilderness etc. If you encounter a ranger in the wilderness you should expect a good fight, if you come across a ranger with rifleman skills in the wilderness you should expect a very hard fight.

One thing i dont want to see and i echo phenix on this is ranger turn into a camper or primary hunter. Its far too limiting. Camping and hunting have a great lot of potential but they should never be a primary class defining role for a profession that requires so much investment. I say make camps a very apealing feature (modular camps) make hunting a worthwhile feature (increased harvesting, creature damage mitigation/toughness) but keep them as exactly that, features. Flesh out our recon, pathfinding and trappingskills and push recon to the forefront of these roles as our class defining role with heavy emphasis around stealth, survival and wilderness combat (think flying log 'preditor' traps and slippery leaves traps along with noose traps etc).

All in all we should be viable in combaton our own legs, against pcs, npcs and creatures. Wilderness should be our damage giver, our survival tool and crowd controller in the same way creatures are creature handler's weapons. Dont try to develope us into a role that will be far too limiting baring in mind the future gcw upgrade, the new dungeons and all the new content that is coming our over the next year or so. Why limit us to only creature combat when nothing at all is going to develope in creature combat? why push us down the path of campers when combat skills are always going to be more needed and desirable to acheive our role?

THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER

Squidwalker

Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:12 am

#52

We are slated? So do they now admit that Ranger needs a full revamp, and not just some "Correspondant Issues" done? Because it does need a revamp. Or precisely, to be finished and some tweeking/balancing.

Teranus Blan'Fyl
OldSchool Ranger
Short-Timer

Ranger Archive

Thread: Rangers and the CU