Ranger Archive
Thread: So are rangers going to get screwed over with health bar in CU or not
Don't post if you don't know the facts, uness you are asking about the facts.
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
New rules:
- If you aren't on the alpha team, don't post wild speculations.
- If you haven't read all the public CU documents, in their entirety, don't try to tell people what is and isn't covered in the CU (see rule 1).
Rule 1. Don't tell me topost speculations because I don't (If you don't know all the details of the CU, but still post about it as if you did, that speculating)
Rule 2. I haven't because of a lack of information disclosure, yet again I'm not telling what is or is not covered in CU. See Rule 1. (Yes, you are)
For now, I just going to ignore this kind of non constructive posting. TY! (I love it. You can post false information, and whenI call you on it, I am being unconstructive. If you don't want to defend your arguments, don't make them. You pulled this last time you had someone disagree with you.)
JPistol wrote:
Buffs were a player's crutch anyways. "I can't do squat till I get my daily buff."
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Don't post if you don't know the facts, uness you are asking about the facts
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
New rules:
- If you aren't on the alpha team, don't post wild speculations.
- If you haven't read all the public CU documents, in their entirety, don't try to tell people what is and isn't covered in the CU (see rule 1).
Rule 1. Don't tell me topost speculations because I don't (If you don't know all the details of the CU, but still post about it as if you did, that speculating)
Rule 2. I haven't because of a lack of information disclosure, yet again I'm not telling what is or is not covered in CU. See Rule 1. (Yes, you are)
For now, I just going to ignore this kind of non constructive posting. TY! (
K, once and for, have had the same sort of stuff going on in CU thread
Post EVIDENCE (QUOTE) where I supposedly am talking about something I don't know about that is not in the Papers I've seen.......... I read back all my posts in this thread and there is only 1 line that maybe could use a rephrase...
So backup your statement and QUOTE instead of throwing acusations and argue for the sake of arguing only. Especially for the bold part and WHERE you call on it, I don't see anything but patronizing from you.
Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 03-26-2005 06:59 PM
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Hmm... analogy: Smuggler has a Technique tree using special pistols shot. Makes that them a combat class? No! They're not considered a combat class, and no they're not taken into account in the CU either.
Thunderheart wrote:
Owen-Lars wrote:
Smugler is within the scope of the combat upgrade
The combat portions of the Smuggler Profession are part of the CU.
This is where the problem lies. You made a statement that isn't true and you based it, as you said, on the fact that you didn't see it. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean that it's not part of the revamp. You made an assumption and you declared that as fact. Not even the CURB team has 100% of the information. Stating ANY fact without being able to back it up with a dev post is a bad thing. First of all, you may confuse some people and you certainly don't help anyone understand the new system. None of the Alpha team would come in here and say anything without a dev post in a public forum having said it first. To make any statement such as the one you did is providing false information and presenting it as factual.
You wanted quotes....next time, you should back up any statement you make with a direct quote. absense of information isn't grounds for speculation. I hope I'm not one of these people that you complain are being rude. I'm simply showing where you went wrong and asking you not to do it again.
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Nemo0 wrote:
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
As you said yourself: Ranger allows you to SURVIVE. Question you need to ask yourself: would Ranger SUFFICE to kill them _without_ the help of a combat profession? I think the answer would be: no, you cannot! Hence: Ranger in itself is not a combat class!
Nemo0 wrote:
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
JBMat wrote:
Do you know how many times I have turned purple when a Dev or TH or TIggs says we are not a combat class?
I am gonna sit down sometime and count the HAM damage I do on a one hour, no missions, no further than 1000 m away from my PA, hunting trip. I mean add just the Health bars of the stuff I drop. And I will drop it all - wth, it's only Talus.
Today alone I harvested 7k of bone to sell in under an hour. Torturs, huf dun, guf drolg and kahmurras were not safe in my grid square. No huge drops, just consistent drops.
I challenge any PvP monkee to find enoughduels in an hour to top that. And no monkee boys, you count the original HAM, not the heals.
Not combat but damn, I sure do a ton of damage.
JB
Hehe a purple JB instead of a blue one... That's a change
Some questions:
1. Do you only deplete the Health bar or the other bars too? And especially, does the health bar finally make the kill?
2. How do you do this, with only using traps/cdef junk (no droids) and maybe a (at max) CL10 pet... And especially within an hour....
I mention CL10 pet here, cause if you use a higher one, you also a CH which is _supposed_ to be a combat profession (one clearly underpowered unless in PVE while it works rather well). But it's not a Ranger thing of it's own!
To be honestely I find this rather hard to believe. I can get a lot too, but thats because I still use my minor combat profession (in rifleman) together with my pets.
Trying to make the point here, that Ranger, on it's own, is NOT capable of doing fights. Try dropping everything but MR and you understand what I'm trying to say.
Would you consider someone a Master Ranger/Master Squad Leader (i.e. no elite damage dealing profession) close enough to Master Ranger on its own? With this configuration, I would regularly go Rancor and Nightsister hunting unbuffed and unarmored. Without my Ranger skills, I would have died a lot more often (traps, terrain negotiation, and maskscent/conceal). It takes a while to kill stuff but a Master Ranger with a CDEF can kill some quite high level stuff with no extra combat skills.
Sorry I didn't make it clear but I meant I did this stuff solo. And I won most of the time. I even managed to get some decent loot that way. Ranger and Scout skills are what allowed me to kill the stuff. If the enemy can't hit me, they can't win. With Rancors, this means a lot of traps. With Nightsisters, this means keeping out of range with TN. In both cases, my maskscent or camo allows me to move around without worrying about extra agro as much. Doing enough damage takes a while but it is possible to do if you have enough patience.
Great. Now we're at a full circle again.
I reacted to JB cause he posted he could do it within an hour. You now say it takes time (=patience) to do.
Hence my point is made.If you don't understand, try reading the post and reply sequence...
One question remains: were you buffed and wearing armor ?
Cause if you were, likely, according to CU, you might not be able to wear it anymore...
I did not begin playing at launch, I first starred a few months after. However, I did get to start before the group harvesting deductions was interdicted. I weakly remembering the patch notes announcing that now everyone in a group could harvest, but that all in the group would get a 40% reduction. It was also the time before buffs as we know them.
In a game as SWG was back then, a ranger would have a very imported role. When a maximum of 3 people could harvest (one for meat, one for bone, and one for hide), having a ranger in you group was way more imported. Now a days when just about everyone have scout 1000 for the TN, and all members of the group can harvest all the kills it is less imported to have one member that can harvest a lot.
And when people was not buffed, the debuffs of our traps was a lot more imported, just as it is to unbuffed hunting now a days.
And lets not forget Holocron comment that mission terminal was mend to give us something to do if we had 5 minutes to kill. If players was mend to roam the planets looking for adventures and stuff to kill, out tracking would be invaluable.
Now imagine that all that would have held true. In such a system Ranger would be a support class, we would be group hunting support, big game hunting support, and with our camps, group recovery support.
Well that game is no more, to many changes was made to the rest of the game. But that do not change the fact that we are a support class, admittedly one from another era, but still a support class non the less.
The CU is meant to fix all this. The super buffed template stackers in invulnerability armour, should become a thing of the past.
So why can we not trust the ranger CU team to prevent the devs from breaking our profession? And as for raising hell with the CU to get more combat abilities... that I find highly inappropriate. We have a rewrap coming up, and that is what it is for.
Phenix1050 wrote:
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Hmm... analogy: Smuggler has a Technique tree using special pistols shot. Makes that them a combat class? No! They're not considered a combat class, and no they're not taken into account in the CU either.
Thunderheart wrote:
Owen-Lars wrote:
Smugler is within the scope of the combat upgrade
The combat portions of the Smuggler Profession are part of the CU.
This is where the problem lies. You made a statement that isn't true and you based it, as you said, on the fact that you didn't see it. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean that it's not part of the revamp. You made an assumption and you declared that as fact. Not even the CURB team has 100% of the information. Stating ANY fact without being able to back it up with a dev post is a bad thing. First of all, you may confuse some people and you certainly don't help anyone understand the new system. None of the Alpha team would come in here and say anything without a dev post in a public forum having said it first. To make any statement such as the one you did is providing false information and presenting it as factual.
I see where I went wrong with it. If I had phrased the sentence to
"and no they're not taken into account as such in the CU either"
which I actually ment, then it would have been clearer and factual. For that I apologise.
You wanted quotes....next time, you should back up any statement you make with a direct quote. absense of information isn't grounds for speculation. I hope I'm not one of these people that you complain are being rude. I'm simply showing where you went wrong and asking you not to do it again.
This is not considered being rude by me. You're pointing out where it did go wrong, instead of X's post only patronizing me.
Still an issue for me remains. Owen did say it was because of decisions made and a lack of time. Only curious why Smuggler is taken into account and Ranger not.
To clarify:
1. According to the quoted TH statement, it tells me TH (Devs/Soe) don't see Smuggler as a Combat class, yet they are included whereas
2. The Ranger, according to many here, as a Combat class (even by Devs/SOE?) is not in CU.
*ponder*
I guess it only has to do with the fact that pistols and such are redefined which directly affects the Smuggler tree. Ranger has only traps which is not PvP related.
*ponder 2*
Thinking of it, it might mean that if creatures are also respecced to the new system, and our traps are not, it can be either good or bad. I will leave it to the imagination what situations may occur, but I think that at least the trapping trees of both scout/ranger should be considered in the CU even if they're only PVE related!
Phenix1050 wrote:
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Hmm... analogy: Smuggler has a Technique tree using special pistols shot. Makes that them a combat class? No! They're not considered a combat class, and no they're not taken into account in the CU either. first off, you're not on the CU team, you really shouldn't make abosolute statements about a system you don't have 100% information on . secondly, TH stated in the CU developmet thread thatsmugglers ARE recieving changes which DOES make them a combat class.
A point of difference: the skills the smuggler get with this tree even works on NPC characters _and_ players.
Our Ranger traps only work on NPC creatures. Hence if we _were_ a combat class, it would be a completely crippled combat class (only be able to combat 1/3 of the system). Which is exactly what we're trying to CHANGE. The creature-cetric role that we have hurts us as a profession because we have no identity. Think about it this way: there are 4 "types" of professions: combat, healing, social and crafting. Which is Ranger closest to? Combat. Third, in many MMOs there is always a stealth class-- the "assassin" who sacrifices raw power for the ability to sneak around. Avoidance is just another part of combat. if you can walk into theed camo'd up and do recon on how many stormtroopers there are without getting aggro'd...that's a part of combat, in my opinion. Ask any military person here-- having good intel is always usefull for combat.
preach it!
any profession where Engaging in Combat is REQUIRED to level the profession, is a Combat Class. that may not be SOEs current definition, but thats how it should be.
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
As you said yourself: Ranger allows you to SURVIVE. Question you need to ask yourself: would Ranger SUFFICE to kill them _without_ the help of a combat profession? I think the answer would be: no, you cannot! Hence: Ranger in itself is not a combat class!
Nemo0 wrote:
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
...
Hehe a purple JB instead of a blue one... That's a change
Some questions:
1. Do you only deplete the Health bar or the other bars too? And especially, does the health bar finally make the kill?
2. How do you do this, with only using traps/cdef junk (no droids) and maybe a (at max) CL10 pet... And especially within an hour....
I mention CL10 pet here, cause if you use a higher one, you also a CH which is _supposed_ to be a combat profession (one clearly underpowered unless in PVE while it works rather well). But it's not a Ranger thing of it's own!
To be honestely I find this rather hard to believe. I can get a lot too, but thats because I still use my minor combat profession (in rifleman) together with my pets.
Trying to make the point here, that Ranger, on it's own, is NOT capable of doing fights. Try dropping everything but MR and you understand what I'm trying to say.
Would you consider someone a Master Ranger/Master Squad Leader (i.e. no elite damage dealing profession) close enough to Master Ranger on its own? With this configuration, I would regularly go Rancor and Nightsister hunting unbuffed and unarmored. Without my Ranger skills, I would have died a lot more often (traps, terrain negotiation, and maskscent/conceal). It takes a while to kill stuff but a Master Ranger with a CDEF can kill some quite high level stuff with no extra combat skills.