Ranger Archive

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Glum_Moonfist wrote:

Not sure if this goes along with your idea of Ranger or not, but I always thought ranger would make an excellent prerequisite skill needed for an advanced rifleman profession. Normal riflemen would be what most would like their profession to be: a heavy gunner, while a Ranger/Rifleman would gain abilities (if he had both skills) to become: a sniper.

Things like blending into the radar (making your radar dot purple to everyone, so people can't tell your the enemy) or disappear (if technically possible - I know theres issues with this concerning 3rd party progs)

Also give master rangers perhaps a certification for a special sniper rifle & range mods to use it past 60m.

Ability to camo yourself, so as long as your not moving...you appear as a bush or some other local plant.

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As a DAOC ranger (stealth class there), I worry about this. Stealth combined with other abilities, like dealing damage from a distance, can be quite powerful. Usually the way to deal with this is to make some other aspect of the class weak. A reasonable tradeoff yes, but it can be tricky and will take time to get right.Given Sony's impressive track record of timely fixes to our class (ahem), it could take forever to get this right.

I totally agree with the thrust of giving us more pvp utility. Anything to make the class at least interesting there would be welcome. Is there another class that has a combat ability (traps) that only works in pve? There may be one, but I am coming up with a blank trying to think of one.

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JoeTivo wrote:

As a DAOC ranger (stealth class there), I worry about this. Stealth combined with other abilities, like dealing damage from a distance, can be quite powerful. Usually the way to deal with this is to make some other aspect of the class weak. A reasonable tradeoff yes, but it can be tricky and will take time to get right.Given Sony's impressive track record of timely fixes to our class (ahem), it could take forever to get this right.

I totally agree with the thrust of giving us more pvp utility. Anything to make the class at least interesting there would be welcome. Is there another class that has a combat ability (traps) that only works in pve? There may be one, but I am coming up with a blank trying to think of one.

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Scout is the only other class that has PvE only abilities. Crafters don't really get combat abilities. Medics can use them in PvP. Combat professions can use most of them in PvP (/concealshot comes to mind but that's understandable, riflemen get /snipershot to compensate [PvP only]). Squad Leaders can use their skills in PvP. Smugglers can use their skills in PvP (although feign death has some odd effects). Entertainers and IDs don't really have any combat abilities (although the buffs do last into PvP). etc.

As for making us weak, that's why it would go in the Master box. Spending 2/3rds of our skill points to get a skill is a quite big weakness. Even if we get useful traps, just keep them from doing too much damage.

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

We don't need to worry about master combat medic's / ranger's being the ultimate combination Master Combat Medic is one of the few professions that takes more skill points than Master Ranger, they need 169 completely different skill points to master, there aren't enough for both.

And it's not like there aren't enough uber problems right now anyway, as a master Carbineer, I got killed by a TK in 3 hits and I only got 1 shot off before he KD/dizzied me anyway. As I see it there are 2 priorities for fixing professions right now, "Star Wars ambiance" and "Squeaky wheel". DE's are ambiance, as well as what few fixes carbineers got in the last patch. CH's got nerfed because everyone else was squeaky wheel. Jedi are both, so they'll get most of the attention until someone decides to take a stand, or everyone is a Jedi. The problem with Rangers is that they aren't sufficiently part of the "Star Wars" experience, and there aren't enough of us to squeak above all the rest of the noise. I don't see us getting any attention until 6 months after the anniversary at best.

Rangers need a motto, here's a few ideas:
Everyone and their mother can be a Jedi, but I'm a Master Ranger.
I can name more Jedi than I can Rangers.

Radar invisibility is not uber if it'soutside of combat. If you don't want to die to a pair of stealthy riflemen, you won't be overt and on a perch where you can't get closer to them in a really big hurry. Stealth and radar invisibility at mastercould make Rangers into their own niche class. Competing with Commando's, Bounty Hunters, Combat Medics, TK's, CH, etc... Stealth should be the defining factor of ANYidea of a Ranger, be it ParaMilitary,Creature Hunter, or Park Ranger. You wouldn't catch me dead wearing black/red composite, I have camouflage clothes specifically suited to numerous terrains, and I'd like to make use of it.

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JediQuic wrote:

You don't need to be a Master Combat medic to Destroy a Whole group in PVP.....4004 is More then sufficient...... Combined with a Guarentied first strike capability this is the only real problem i see with it in Group PvP.

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4/0/0/4 is still 140 skill points. And Master Ranger is another 140. So, if the stealth is at Master Ranger, you could not even get novice CM (Novice CM is 112 skill points, largely because of the 2 novice professions needed). Novice Ranger is 83. Wayfarer is 97 so you could have 4/0/0/4 CM and Wayfarer. But not Master CM and Wayfarer. Putting it at Master Ranger means the only worry is from a combat profession getting first strike. Given that the first strike could be a dizzy/knockdown, it is a bit unfair. But dizzy/knockdown defense is around for a reason. Warcry was nerfed because there was no defense. And first hit dizzy/knockdowns still happen all the time. If it is a Master only skill, I think it would be balanced. For PvP, you choose mod stacking or first strike. The mod stacker should still win. But the first strike will let you take down anyone who isn't prepared.

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

Ohh yeah....your right.....Guess i should have done the math before i posted...heh Whoops

Ok it sounds even better now......Dizzy+KD specials from combat professions arn't realy a problem....They happen all the time, People have learned todeal with them

Another question tho....gonna mix threads here, Should modular traps(or traps of an equal power scale that work in PvP) be added....would there be a restriction on this? An AoE Dizzy+Knockdown+Armor debuff as firststrike would be pretty insane....Especialy when Additional effects could be Suplemented by a second ranger

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JediQuic wrote:

Ohh yeah....your right.....Guess i should have done the math before i posted...heh Whoops

Ok it sounds even better now......Dizzy+KD specials from combat professions arn't realy a problem....They happen all the time, People have learned todeal with them

Another question tho....gonna mix threads here, Should modular traps(or traps of an equal power scale that work in PvP) be added....would there be a restriction on this? An AoE Dizzy+Knockdown+Armor debuff as firststrike would be pretty insane....Especialy when Additional effects could be Suplemented by a second ranger

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That depends on how the Devs add modular traps. If they make it so that you need quite a few of the power enhancers (at least as described in the other thread) to have any chance of hitting in PvP then I don't think this would be too much of a worry. You should probably only be able to doa couple of single target states or a single small AoE one with any accuracy. And any good group knows to spread out a bit. CM poisons and diseases have taught them that. As far as multiple Rangers are concerned, I think the same thing still applies. As long as the traps are not made too powerful for PvP then multiple Rangers would just be a good tactic. Right now, multiple CMs is a very good thing. Why shouldn't multiple Rangers help? As long as that AoE Dizzy+Knockdown+Armor debuff as firststrike attack has about a 10% chance of hitting, I think it is still fair. 9 out of 10 times you would lose your first strike bonus. Once in a while you would have a chance of decimating the opponent.

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

Message Edited by Fred_Skinner on 04-11-2004 01:18 PM

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Un4tun8 wrote:
While it is definitely interesting, I see other professions "disagree". Stealth is as applicable to Smuggler as it is to Ranger. I think Bounty Hunters would immediately want it too. Riflemen will cry that it will make their Cover skill seem weak in comparison. Et cetera, et cetera

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