Ranger Archive
Thread: Please support this idea for bringing back bio-farms which benefit Scouts/Rangers (link inside)
GoldMemberBria
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:50 pm
#40
Oh, and my take on it... duh! of COURSE I don't want a bio farm. Why would I want to be a farmer? ewwww, I'm a ranger to hunt. And I don't want to be competing with some metalic slaughter farm. Don't you just hate people from other professions coming and telling you how *your* profession should be changed? 
NRaas
Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:00 pm
#41
Just in case anyone didn't notice... Tal-N is a Hunt Master, and therefore is Ranger, as well as a BE. 
Telephius
Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:36 pm
#42
How about a droid module for mast havesting?
So you buy lets say a treadmill(it has lots of arm dealies on it) that has a harvesting module on it, when you go kill a lair of creature you have the option to mass harvest 1 type fo resource from all the dead creatures you kill withint the area, or you can set it on automatic to istantly collect the resource of choice from an creature in the area that you drop right then?
You could then either double harvest the same resource(the droid puts that group harvest percent into check but it harvests a good amount) or harvest two resources at a time.
what do you think? it would mean we would get a pseudo farmbut we would still have to actively hunt for the resources while giving the De business?
darmokVtS
Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:27 pm
#43
OberSenf wrote:
AS need us more than Chefs? That doesn't make sense to me as well. I have yet to get an IM from a chef. I get an IM from an AS at least once a week.
Well ...
They don't use that much hide on a single item (20-40 on a single armorpiece for comp armor).
They just sell much more. Ever seen someone asking for a master smuggler slicing him 50 layered comp sets (no not an armorsmith, someone who BOUGHT 50 sets as a regular customer)? I have.
The "perfect" slices were used for the one set the person actually wanted, two sets were given away. The other 47 destroyed. And the very same person already said that this was just one batch and two other "specialised" sets were already ordered ... 50 of each :/. Probably again three of each order will be actually used again and the rest destroyed ...
THAT's why some armorsmithes are a) filthy rich and b) need a lot of hide.
(admittedly this was an extreme case but ppl buying 10 sets or more to get one set with the best possible slices aren't rare on some servers, they are actually quite common).
Kinslaughterer
Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:22 am
#44
Copied and Pasted from the BE forum, please Read it fully!
The problem isnt the amount of hide, meat or bone currently available (speaking about Chilastra) its the quality. Anyone can harvest crap resources and plonk it on the bazaar. Its the HQ meat, bone and hide needed for bio eng new additives aswell as the chef foods themselves. This is on top of the previous demands by tailors, armoursmiths, doctors, medics and Combat medics.
To make new chef food and buy meat at 200 cpu which someone was suggesting is just to stupid to comment on. There needs to be a higher input of creature resources to fill the large hole created by the new additives and chef foods.
The bio farm idea is good as it stands, but i see no reason for the need to domesticate animals stage. Throwing the CHs a bone for this skill is unreasonable step. Give them something useful and more enjoyable than this!
Animals should be classed in 3 classes, small, medium and large. Small can be trapped by anyone with trapping 4, medium can be trapped by anyone with ranger trapping 2 and large at ranger trapping 4 (add the small, medium and large animal trap schematics at that lvl). Base the extraction rate of resource from that creature at CL which scouts and rangers can see via examinetimes the extraction rate of the farm. So if you have a small high CL animal in a farm it will extractmore than a small low CL animal. Risk v Reward.
Now u have the animal to harvest, wouldnt it make it better to just set the harvest rate high enough for each animal without adding complications of getting two so you can produce and extra one.
CL x Extraction rate x 20 for small (cap at 4) so small can be made BR1/2/3/4 depending on skill and materials.
CLx Extraction x 20 for medium (cap at 8) medium BR5/6/7/8 etc
CL x Extraction rate x 20 for large (cap at 12) Large BR9/10/11/12 etc
Make mines extract 1 animal per week so the CL of the animal attracts a premium price for the hunter who caught it and can tailor his catches to orders he/she has.
Say hurton pupis lvl 2 and u put it in a small farm of extraction rate 4 you would get 2x4x20 meat/bone/hide from this creature ie160 u put in a wolf kima sayCL19 u get 19x4x20 =1520 creature resources, CL19 in a medium would be 19x8x20 = 3040 CL19 in a large 19x12x20 = 4560 etc etc.
Cap creatures at lvl 50 or 60 for harvesting so minimizing the targeting of high end rarer creatures just for harvesting in harvester purposes.
Each harvester takes one week to harvest an animal, 10 harvesters = 10 animals
Also increase harvesting creature foods rate of master scouts and mid and high ranger harvesting tree.
Many chefs are seriously considering chef/master scout or chef /master ranger characters because of the shortfall of HQ resources.
Kinslaughterer
Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:29 am
#45
Copied and Pasted from Bio Eng Forum, please read it fully.
Really gotta laugh at the Rangers posting here. Here are some of the points you really dont seems to be picking up on.
1. No One is talking about taking your harvesting ability away, in fact people have commented on increasing it in the Ranger tree. Even giving you the abilty to harvest 2 outa 3 or 3 outa 3 resources!
2. No One is suggesting that the Bio Harvester have a huge output like BR13/14 heavies, just something to increase HQ creature resources.
3. The animals that go in farms are suggested to come from RANGERS so you still get to charge what you like for these.
4. Suggested one animal to 3 animals per week per farm, how is this gonna be anymore time intensive for you than creature resource gathering? You can do both at the same time! Throw a creature capture trap, maybe two or three per animal and bang, youve got one for the harvester!
5. Yes it will bring somecreature resourceprices down for some creature resources but then you will also have the captured animals on top of that income!
6. If you don't want to capture animals, youdont have to, its voluntary!
7. The problem isnt with the amount of meat on the market, its the amount of MQ to HQ meat. People are trying to charge (and some saps are payin, more fool them) extortionate amounts for very poor quality meat.
8. Have you ever thought that going out and trapping a creature for a farm might be a welcome break and a different challenge from harvesting all the time. Some people might actually switch to full time Trappers because they enjoy it. Others will stay full time Hunter/Gatherers because they enjoy it. There is room for both and will be a market for both types.
There you go, a few points you might not have understood from all the posts on here. BTW i am a Master Ranger/MBE and i dont harvest that much, i ask guild mates to do it because i wouldn't ever pay the silly prices some of harvesters are charging.
100 cpu for Dath Carnivore meat was a good one. Wasnt bad quality, but come on, a decent group gets 48k missions + 100 cpu for meat? Give me a break please!
Thorbo
Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:18 am
#46
I say a BIG NO to farms, only if they set up a new professions called farmer. That collects wheat,corn etc. I'm only a scout 4-4-4-3, going for Ranger (not for holo). I like going out on a hunt with a mate or solo, i like going out to explore a planet looking for meat,hide and bone. Making the kill, then selling the goods for 5 to 45cpu, depending on the quailty. I also agree that a Master Ranger should be able to collect all 3 meat-hide-bone at once from the same animal. Keep that part of a Ranger as it is, but let a ranger collect alot more than a scout. Master marksman,Rifles 1-1-0-1,Scout 4-4-4-3, Medic 2-2-1-2. It can only get better, with a little help from everyone.
Maarek stele
-MythInc-
Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:02 am
#47
You know.. just because you enumerate things and post them doesn't make them true. Rather jaded interpretation on your part.
Kinslaughterer wrote:
Copied and Pasted from Bio Eng Forum, please read it fully.
Really gotta laugh at the Rangers posting here. Here are some of the points you really dont seems to be picking up on.
1. No One is talking about taking your harvesting ability away, in fact people have commented on increasing it in the Ranger tree. Even giving you the abilty to harvest 2 outa 3 or 3 outa 3 resources!
Away? Nah. just won't be needed. And teh ones talking of increasing the yield are the Rangers. The original poster specifically has said several times that increasing the yield wouldn't be good enough for him.
2. No One is suggesting that the Bio Harvester have a huge output like BR13/14 heavies, just something to increase HQ creature resources.
It doesn't have to be huge.. it's constant... it never stops...
3. The animals that go in farms are suggested to come from RANGERS so you still get to charge what you like for these.
No. We won't. BE's are already showing a desire to not pay the going rate on what we harvest. They certainly have no appreciation or value of the time that gos into it. All that will happen is BE's will train as much Ranger as they need to stock their own farms. This is kind of like they are now.. Quite a few are rangers but don't have the time to hunt the organics. BUt time is easy when it's just collecting from their harvester than they will be able to maintain without any help or dependence on another profession in any way.
4. Suggested one animal to 3 animals per week per farm, how is this gonna be anymore time intensive for you than creature resource gathering? You can do both at the same time! Throw a creature capture trap, maybe two or three per animal and bang, youve got one for the harvester!
See #3.. you'll be doing in yourselves.
5. Yes it will bring somecreature resourceprices down for some creature resources but then you will also have the captured animals on top of that income!
See #3 you'll be doing in yourselves.
6. If you don't want to capture animals, youdont have to, its voluntary!
We won't need to capture them.. you'll be doing in yourselves.... (See a pattern here?)
7. The problem isnt with the amount of meat on the market, its the amount of MQ to HQ meat. People are trying to charge (and some saps are payin, more fool them) extortionate amounts for very poor quality meat.
First. Since those who are buying are still making quite a bit of profit I don't see how you can refer to it as overcharging on the base resources. Second. It only seems extortionate because you aren't the one taking the orders and filling them. As we've said time and time again... feel free to hunt things yourself.. oh that's right.. the overwhelming response from the BE's is that they don't have the time..Hmmm....if that is the case.. then going to have to pay someone for theirs. Otherwise.. do it yourself you have the ability..
8. Have you ever thought that going out and trapping a creature for a farm might be a welcome break and a different challenge from harvesting all the time. Some people might actually switch to full time Trappers because they enjoy it. Others will stay full time Hunter/Gatherers because they enjoy it. There is room for both and will be a market for both types.
We fully say that trapping line needs to be changed up. But not in such a way that it neuters our ability to sell our harvests which at this point is about the only game benefit of being a Ranger. Most of us are Rangers because we are drawn to it.
There you go, a few points you might not have understood from all the posts on here. BTW i am a Master Ranger/MBE and i dont harvest that much, i ask guild mates to do it because i wouldn't ever pay the silly prices some of harvesters are charging.
Nice condescending tone here... Perhaps your view is a bit colored on what was said and mentioned. And you don't have to pay us. We sell out of everything we have almost as soon as we get it. Now how is that possible if we are overcharging again?
100 cpu for Dath Carnivore meat was a good one. Wasnt bad quality, but come on, a decent group gets 48k missions + 100 cpu for meat? Give me a break please!
Well hot dayam.. since we might happen to get a share of a rancor mission we should just be giving you the piddly stuff we happen to harvest. How could we be so selfish... Yessah mastah BE.. anythin' else i can do foh ya...? We aims to please.
darmokVtS
Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:21 am
#48
I can't see a shortage of BE items or any products the BE's items go into on eclipse. All the stuff I see is VERY decent tbh, maybe not every BE gets enough meat for the rates he wants to produce but the amount of produced BE items from the so called 'too low supply' satisfy the market easily - CH get rarer and rarer, sellings be'd mounts is probably also not a big buisness anymore, bioclothing isn't used by many players, leaves the chef foods. And even tho we atm probably see quite a good amount of sales on BE'd cheffoods this will go back sooner or later, the non be-enhanced foods/drinks are in some parts massively overpowered and be enhancments just add extra bang nearly noone needs (vasarian brandy anyone?) . If you have problems with your professions don't try to solve them with attempts to get more supplies for more items to make that in the end noone will buy. Try to work with your correspondent to help your profession getting more customers, don't try to destroy the ideas of other profession' members in an attempt to flood the market with tons of things noone will buy.
Ofc this situation might be different on other servers, granted (and that's probably also a huge part of the fuss about 'high prices' in the two threads, the prices some BE's saw as 'too high' might be 'high' on their server, they are actually mediocre on others
).
And there we see the biggest problem of this idea, it's near to impossible to balance it so that it will be balanced on every server when all of them have economies developed differently. This would have been doable last June or Juli, but introducing such an 'imbalancing risk' into 24(?) different evolved markets will for sure hurt some of the professions affected by this on at least some servers.
What this proposal basically is: A huge amount of developmentwork that most likely will produce a lot of more work after it eventually gets introduced to repair the damage it made on at least some of the 24 different economies/markets existing right now. Just help us to get the harvestrates for rangers massively increased, this change is minor, small amount of work for SOE and bears less risk of damaging existing economies.
Oh, and raise your prices (how often do I have to repeat this?).
You can turn and turn this issue as long as you want, in the end you will ALWAYS compete with armorsmithes and docs about our time, be it with supplying trapped animals to your farms or as it is now getting huntables from us. And as long as you can't afford to compete with them you still will be the last in line getting our services.
You can get out of this with offering contracts worthwhile for us, be it in the current system or the new system proposed.
Ofc this situation might be different on other servers, granted (and that's probably also a huge part of the fuss about 'high prices' in the two threads, the prices some BE's saw as 'too high' might be 'high' on their server, they are actually mediocre on others
).And there we see the biggest problem of this idea, it's near to impossible to balance it so that it will be balanced on every server when all of them have economies developed differently. This would have been doable last June or Juli, but introducing such an 'imbalancing risk' into 24(?) different evolved markets will for sure hurt some of the professions affected by this on at least some servers.
What this proposal basically is: A huge amount of developmentwork that most likely will produce a lot of more work after it eventually gets introduced to repair the damage it made on at least some of the 24 different economies/markets existing right now. Just help us to get the harvestrates for rangers massively increased, this change is minor, small amount of work for SOE and bears less risk of damaging existing economies.
Oh, and raise your prices (how often do I have to repeat this
?).You can turn and turn this issue as long as you want, in the end you will ALWAYS compete with armorsmithes and docs about our time, be it with supplying trapped animals to your farms or as it is now getting huntables from us. And as long as you can't afford to compete with them you still will be the last in line getting our services.
You can get out of this with offering contracts worthwhile for us, be it in the current system or the new system proposed.
darmokVtS
Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:45 am
#49
Kinslaughterer wrote:100 cpu for Dath Carnivore meat was a good one. Wasnt bad quality, but come on, a decent group gets 48k missions + 100 cpu for meat?
I wonder where that 'master ranger' in your signature comes from. You a) want to have more meat and b) throw missions into the discussions and in particular missions on Rancors. Heh.
Random spawned lairs give MUCH more meat/lair (as they have MUCH more mobs in them). Finding wild rancor lairs is actually no problem at all and you don't even have to have /areatrack for locating them. If you know what you do as a hunter you just move to the areas on dathomir where you run into random spawned rancor lairs every 50-100m
. Taking missions REDUCES the amount of meat gathered on easy to find mobs like rancors, your argumentation is a bit ... interesting .
Calculus_Entropy
Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:48 am
#50
darmokVtS wrote:
And even tho we atm probably see quite a good amount of sales on BE'd cheffoods this will go back sooner or later, the non be-enhanced foods/drinks are in some parts massively overpowered and be enhancments just add extra bang nearly noone needs (vasarian brandy anyone?) .
Good lord, are you MAD?!??!!?!?!? I use brandy every time I hunt. Who couldn't use a +800 to all mind stats? My doc won't hunt with me unless he has brandy.
Fred_Skinner
Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:48 am
#51
Kinslaughterer wrote:
Copied and Pasted from the BE forum, please Read it fully!
The problem isnt the amount of hide, meat or bone currently available (speaking about Chilastra) its the quality. Anyone can harvest crap resources and plonk it on the bazaar. Its the HQ meat, bone and hide needed for bio eng new additives aswell as the chef foods themselves. This is on top of the previous demands by tailors, armoursmiths, doctors, medics and Combat medics.
My customers tell me this every day. I do not think any of us missunderstood this. btw, I did read this already.
To make new chef food and buy meat at 200 cpu which someone was suggesting is just to stupid to comment on. There needs to be a higher input of creature resources to fill the large hole created by the new additives and chef foods.
Agreed. On my server I try to riegn in the Rangers I have pull with, but I can't stop a merchant trying to corner the market because it can be cornered. One guy shouts "Paying 200cpu for Pokuo" and i'ts all over: It's like gold fever, only in hides.
The bio farm idea is good as it stands, but i see no reason for the need to domesticate animals stage. Throwing the CHs a bone for this skill is unreasonable step. Give them something useful and more enjoyable than this!
Animals should be classed in 3 classes, small, medium and large. Small can be trapped by anyone with trapping 4, medium can be trapped by anyone with ranger trapping 2 and large at ranger trapping 4 (add the small, medium and large animal trap schematics at that lvl). Base the extraction rate of resource from that creature at CL which scouts and rangers can see via examinetimes the extraction rate of the farm. So if you have a small high CL animal in a farm it will extractmore than a small low CL animal. Risk v Reward.
That's a lot of changing you're asking for, a bit like a total revamp of the combat system? ... and that STILL is not finished. It would be far easier, imho, to just give us an order of magnitude increase in harvest and let us harvest more. It migh equally be valid to change some of the silliness I see in recipies for things that should not require a "hide" or "bone" to make. Too much carry over from EQ imho.
Now u have the animal to harvest, wouldnt it make it better to just set the harvest rate high enough for each animal without adding complications of getting two so you can produce and extra one.
You can multiply out that potential harvest and get an animal that will cost a million credits or more. This isn't helping you. Especially when you put a perception that one animal can yield great value like this. Better, imho, to have thousands of hides on hand, relatively quickly. This will make a fair price more natural then a single "potential value" item. Folks will increase the value just in case they missed an unknown that the buyer can utilize.
If pricing is really an issue, could you coment on my price wieghting thread and perhaps try to enforce this on your server? Don't know if it will help but it might be usefull.
CL x Extraction rate x 20 for small (cap at 4) so small can be made BR1/2/3/4 depending on skill and materials.
CLx Extraction x 20 for medium (cap at 8) medium BR5/6/7/8 etc
CL x Extraction rate x 20 for large (cap at 12) Large BR9/10/11/12 etc
Make mines extract 1 animal per week so the CL of the animal attracts a premium price for the hunter who caught it and can tailor his catches to orders he/she has.
Say hurton pupis lvl 2 and u put it in a small farm of extraction rate 4 you would get 2x4x20 meat/bone/hide from this creature ie160 u put in a wolf kima sayCL19 u get 19x4x20 =1520 creature resources, CL19 in a medium would be 19x8x20 = 3040 CL19 in a large 19x12x20 = 4560 etc etc.
Cap creatures at lvl 50 or 60 for harvesting so minimizing the targeting of high end rarer creatures just for harvesting in harvester purposes.
Each harvester takes one week to harvest an animal, 10 harvesters = 10 animals
As stated before, we have a proposal in our SotP for traps that harvest. Traps in the same calling of the Fur trade. Adding a system like you propose would certainly require a large impact in developement and testing, and would be a while in comming. I like the idea of Rangers having "traps" like harvestors, we need to know migration habits and such and does not violate the shifting resource system. I think the Bio-farms, run by BE's do. Not to mention it does compete with us.If you were still allowing for the planet's shift to effect the farm, then I don't quite see the point. You would have to break the farm down and move it all the time. I think the harvesting trap idea is a better way to go, and keeps the skill in the profession intended. That way harvesting bunnies won't be so mind-numbing, and we can cover more "good stuff" in the case of rare, multi-planet high quality resources (lets us harvest in may places at once).
We have asked for increased harvest, for harvesting all of the animal, harvesting traps, ect. already. Would you like to help us out in getting the devs attention? As a hotfix perhaps? Now that would be nice
Also increase harvesting creature foods rate of master scouts and mid and high ranger harvesting tree.
Many chefs are seriously considering chef/master scout or chef /master ranger characters because of the shortfall of HQ resources.
darmokVtS
Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:54 am
#52
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Sure, I use it all the time too. I replaced my muon usage with using brandy and two shots of non be-enhanced vasarian brandy from a good chef give me a higher longer lasting effect than muon without the downer. Muon was always 'good enough' for me except the downerproblem and so I fail to see a reason to boost my mindstats even higher when I just don't need it at that level (I have a very 'typical' rifleman hamsetup tho, everything at minimum except mind/focus/willpower. Others might work differently there and can use the extra boost).