Ranger Archive

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Owen-Lars wrote:

Id say he would be a pathfinder if we ever get tracking back.

If not i would say Assasin.

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I look at these changes as the death of the old "Ranger" and the birth of the new "Ranger." Some don't like it, some do. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, and no one can claim anyone else's opinion wrong. I am sad to see a few of the old Rangers that I loved to stalk around the forums leaving, but I am still excited about the new changes. I just hope that this community can continue, and that the most holy war against the garments will never abate.

/salute

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

I never said they were a negative (nor do I believe Paks did). If I have said that these changes were a negative, please post a link for me, so I can address my comments.I think the new profession is great (it's not Ranger, but it is still great). I fully intend on keeping some or all of the Ranger skills I have now.

Don't you think a lot of the antagonism comes from people telling others to leave the prof/game?

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DesktopSaki wrote:

I don't get the people who're suddenly going, "Like it or lump it, this is how it's meant to be." I have never once, ever, heard anyone complain that we were creature-centric. I've only heard (valid) complaints that we weren't combat effective enough and had no GCW role.

/raisehand I complained about being gated towards creatures. I have no problems with being a hunter, but I do not like being told that I have no choice but to hunt every single time I log into the game because that is what my skills are for.

Now we have a GCW role and we're still not that combat effective, and we're being told, "Whoops, sorry, you're not creature-centric after all."

We haven't seen what mods we are going to get, so we dont know how combat effective we are going to be. This statement is premature.

It's not the improvements that are being complained about now--it's the fact that the Frontiersman is being removed from Ranger almost entirely.

I wouldn't mind a role for wilderness survival if there was actually a wilderness to survive, but there isn't. We were slated for a recon role and I wouldn't have complained at all if we were put in charge of wilderness recon. But from the devs point of view, it must make more sense to have one class in charge of all recon and since we definitely get wilderness we also get urban as a result.

You say we can still do Scout and "get it all?" Scout is a novice profession. How would the TKA's feel if suddenly meditate was moved entirely into Brawler? How would any profession feel being told, "Oh, sorry about the past two years guys, but you're actually a Novice profession. Gonna replace you now, kthxbye!" It's like getting Master Medic but once you get Doc, you don't get to heal, buff or diagnose. You just sneak around leaving hypodermic needles for people to step on

You can't be serious about this statement. For two years we've complained about being basically considered a novice profession that happens to spend elite points to acquire. We're not talking about TKA or Doc here, we're talking about ranger. How would TKA's have felt if over the past two years they had been given +10 unarmed speed and accuracy and defense for their whole profession? How would Doc's have felt if they had +10 healing efficiency in their whole profession?

As for this being a "scifi" setting,nature still plays a huge role. Endor, Hoth, Tatooine, Dagobah, that planet in ROTS with the giant flowers. There is plenty, plenty, plenty of room--even need--for an Outdoorsman role.

Again I say, what nature are you surviving? Anyone with cl80 can walk around avoiding aggro from 95% of the enemies in the game and there is certainly no weather to make anyone want to contemplate adding scout to their templates. While I wish there was weather, to realistically expect it to be added just for rangers is naive at best.

Even if Rangers are made into strong combat types, there's no reason to remove the Outdoorsman from it.

And if they're going to make Rangers into covert ops types, it can at least be in the guerilla sense and not the Mission: Impossible sense. We're rough and ready frontiersmen--not James Bond.

They needed a role for recon and we would definitely get wilderness recon, Im quite sure that the devs simply said that it made more sense to have one class doing all recon so we became that.

In short: Ranger should not be can-squashed into a Novice profession to make room for something brand new. We are guerillas, not dandies in tuxedos and skinsuits. Our class means something now and it's heartbreaking to see it diminished.

Just leave the current harvesting, camping, trapping and TN mods alone and blend the new covert ops stuff into it. Then you'll really have a Star Wars Ranger.

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I can understand that argument up to a point, though it does limit people in the same way that having a carbine req limits us. Harvesting is ridiculous, prices are already at an all time low because of it, camping is just eye candy, ranger TN doesn't help us since we have scout TN.A lot of us felt we were paying elite points for a novice profession and therefore doesn't mean as much to push down to its novice roots.

/hijack

JB, it was fun to have you on the forums, you always gave a kick in the arse, when needed and kept things great, i hope i continue to see you in the Scout forums, which i have a feeling i will be browsing more often when this comes out...

Wait a minute, i didn't hijack the thread, it got hijacked from this... hmm

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CuchulainnDarklight wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Rancorrider4 wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
QFE Paks!

She saved me from myself. My next response was going to be:

The next person that says if we want to be creature centric, (leave the Ranger prof/go play WoW) is going to get a Size 14 Leezard foot up their bum (mmm....spikey).

Frankly, it's those people who need to get their heads on straight.You need to realize that we went from a potentially unique, creature hunter to a run off the mill mishmash of Jedi/Rifleman, Commando, WS, and Smuggler skills. It's not like we have no basis for being upset that our role is 100% the opposite of what it, well, currently is. What I don't get is why, if you hated to be creature hunters so much, you were Rangers...

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No one said those of that were asking for a more para-military role for Ranger didn't currently enjoy the style of Ranger as it is now. What most of us were saying was that we would MORE enjoy the para military aspect of it. Please don't stereotype us because we are happy with the new aspect being rolled.

I am not stereotyping anyone. I am addressing the group of people that are saying that Ranger as it was has no place in SWG. I am happy for the people who are happy, but pissing on the people who express their unhappiness is wrong.

Frankly with the Scout and Ranger correspondents both feeling like these new enhancements are a huge negative for the profession I can't help but believe the Ranger community will become increasingly more divided and antagonistic. Very unfortunate indeed.

I never said they were a negative (nor do I believe Paks did). If I have said that these changes were a negative, please post a link for me, so I can address my comments.I think the new profession is great (it's not Ranger, but it is still great). I fully intend on keeping some or all of the Ranger skills I have now.

Don't you think a lot of the antagonism comes from people telling others to leave the prof/game?

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"You need to realize that we went from a potentially unique, creature hunter to a run off the mill mishmash of Jedi/Rifleman, Commando, WS, and Smuggler skills. It's not like we have no basis for being upset that our role is 100% the opposite of what it, well, currently is."

That sounds pretty negative to me. You could have said now you have NEW traps and skills to bring to a hunt and new abilities which will let you partake in ALL other areas of the game. You can be a better Hunter or an Antarian style ranger from the looks of things, lets be positive and see whether it is good as it looks.

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Yeah this pretty much sums up how I feel. I hate working this shift. I can't ever respond anymore until it's pages long. Here's the thing: Calc your comment above gave me the distinct impression that you are very unhappy with the new enhancements, and I received the same feeling from Paks' post early in this thread. I guess frankly I'm not used to a Scout or Ranger Correspondent being negative about changes for us. I've seen Squad Leader bosses and BH bosses BOTH flip out, flame, resign, whatever. I've never seen so much as a cross word from Paks or Calc, and my interpretation of your comments thus far lead me to believe that you view the new changes as a negative and not a positive.

I certainly understand that their are opposing opinions on the new changes, however I've never really viewed either you Calc, or you Pak's, as people on one side or the other. You've always been the voice of reason, and your postings here saddened me. Moreso because I find myself on the side of the opposition in this discussion with you. I don't think you have a good idea of how much I truly respect you both. Because we've spent so much time together in this forum and for the jobs that you both do. I truly feel however that we were meant to be more paramilitary Ranger's. I'm sorry if the new changes don't agree with you, and I most certainly apologize if I've stepped on any toes be they Wookie or Trando.

I'm just surprised I suppose, at how deep the divide has become in our community over this. Diverse opinions are always welcome but the level of emotion attached to this debate is disturbing, and I for one will apologize to the entire community if anything I have said has contributed to it.

Respectfully,

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Rancorrider4 wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
QFE Paks!

She saved me from myself. My next response was going to be:

The next person that says if we want to be creature centric, (leave the Ranger prof/go play WoW) is going to get a Size 14 Leezard foot up their bum (mmm....spikey).

Frankly, it's those people who need to get their heads on straight. You need to realize that we went from a potentially unique, creature hunter to a run off the mill mishmash of Jedi/Rifleman, Commando, WS, and Smuggler skills. It's not like we have no basis for being upset that our role is 100% the opposite of what it, well, currently is. What I don't get is why, if you hated to be creature hunters so much, you were Rangers...

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No one said those of that were asking for a more para-military role for Ranger didn't currently enjoy the style of Ranger as it is now. What most of us were saying was that we would MORE enjoy the para military aspect of it. Please don't stereotype us because we are happy with the new aspect being rolled.

Frankly with the Scout and Ranger correspondents both feeling like these new enhancements are a huge negative for the profession I can't help but believe the Ranger community will become increasingly more divided and antagonistic. Very unfortunate indeed.

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iIam sorry you feel that way Oppma.

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Vorpaks wrote:

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CuchulainnDarklight wrote:

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ScoerFusou wrote:
I know how you feel JB. I also am one of the oldest Rangers on our server, and I dare say I am the Ranger with the longest amount of consecutive days since I got Master somewhere around October 1st and have never dropped it. I love this profession(well what it used to be) and it kills me to see the direction it is going. I too am very close to unlocking Jedi(2 boxes) and I've been trying to find a way to keep Master Ranger and do Jedi at the same time. The only good thing about this revamp is that it DOES seem really pvp geared and if they drop the reqs I may be able to be a Master Ranger/Jedi and still be pretty decent so I think I'll give that a go. My alt, however, will not be picking Ranger back up. He will be a Master Scout with some combat and probably SL and he will most likely become my main character.

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I really dont get this attitude, I mean ALL the Ranger stuff goes into Scout so you can still be creature centric, if playing 1/3 of a game is good enough for you, and youll be better at it with more combat skills. Or you can keep ranger and have even more ways to take down critters.

Or you can take Ranger and play it like a Star Wars Ranger is meant to be. Something I have wanted my Ranger to do for the past 2 years, be a ranger, not some damn bear chasing, camp setting, picnic eating, tour guide ranger that is outclassed in everything by a master scout.

I also see a lot of people saying the new Ranger is geared towards PvP. No it isnt. What it is geared towards is playing ALL areas of the game, not just creature missions. The fact is it looks like its PvP oriented is because you can see a use for things in PvP that are capable of attacking all enemies in the game. That isnt a bad thing, its what every other profession gets.

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We will be what we before... which was not good enough. A lot of people were hoping that this revamp would enhance what Ranger was, instead of making it completely different. I will not be an ultimate hunter with this revamp. My camo will now have a snare, which means I will move very slowly with it on. Not a single one of my new skills can be used while in combat so that means if my traps do not take it out ( a whole lair?) in the first detonation I pretty much have to rely on my combat profession to kill anything - just like before.

Anyone who wants to remain (or become) a effective creature hunter will most likely drop Ranger and pick up a second combat profession. Which is actually what most people who wanted to be effective creature hunters did before this revamp, and didn't like doing at all. Before you heard of this revamp would you have considered the advice "Well just drop Ranger and pick up a second combat profession if you want to be good at killing stuff and NPCs!" to be good advice? Would it have made you feel good? It certainly didn't make me feel good, and it doesn't make me feel good now either. Ranger was pretty much a liability to being able to hunt efficiently before this revamp, and it will still be a liability after this revamp. However, it will now be good at other things. For many of us the problem is we didn't want those other things as much as we wanted the dream we had of Ranger living up to the potential we saw at launch. Many of us have had those dreams for over two years, and they die hard.

I really don't understand this line: "Or you can take Ranger and play it like a Star Wars Ranger is meant to be. Something I have wanted my Ranger to do for the past 2 years, be a ranger, not some damn bear chasing, camp setting, picnic eating, tour guide ranger that is outclassed in everything by a master scout." Did you not read the description of the skills before you picked up the profession? I did - both the in-game description and the one in the manual. And I chased "bears," set camps, and yes, gave tours based on the exploration I had done. And I enjoyed it. I wouldn't have read, loved, and contributed to the Outdoorsman proposal if I didn't. The things I didnt like about the profession was that gradually other professions were able hunt, survive, and explore as well or better than I could, and do other things in addition. So I don't really understand where you are coming from. At all.

I would suggest practising a little sympathy, let us say our piece, and wish us good hunting when we move on.

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1. On the point of Hunting, Ranger will now BE a second combat profession that can help you hunting. Think about that, you dont have to take up a second combat profession to help hunting, Ranger will fulfill that role.

2. You dont know how much the snare will be, so how exactly do you know what speed you will move with it on? That is the arguement the Jedi use for crying nerf and I would have thought it below you.

3. I did read the skills of rnager when I mastered, unfortunately when I mastered the actual skills either didnt work as they were suppossed or, over time were degraded significantly (like camps). My statement has as much validity as the "I have been a creature hunting ranger for more than 2 years and want to stay that way". At least I am not saying that 2/3 of the games content should be gated to others in the profession just to keep me happy.

4. I have NEVER said people should leave ranger in the past or now, or said go and play WoW or anything like that. I have just said if you want to play a FANTASY ranger then play a FANTASY game. If you want to play a Hunteresque Ranger in Star Wars do it. If you want to play the typoe of Ranger mentioned in the canon sources then sorry, you cant. Now you can be both, not one or the other. If someone could intelligently point out how getting an advanced Ranger esque stealth system, combat mods, traps that actually work, and a damage giving capability makes you less of a creature hunter, or not a star wars esque ranger, please do so.

Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 09-21-2005 12:32 PM

Ranger from day one to now.
thought of as either elite hunter or paramilitary... your imagination filled the gaps where the game mechanics failed. We were/ are underpowered and not unique. Neither the big game hunter, nor were the spec. ops soldier supported in the skillsets of the ranger.


Ranger post revamp.
clear role, clear skills. now its paramilitary, and not big game hunter. I have always preferred the outdoorsman/ big game hunter.. but since there is a clear role now, i will have fun with that. if i dont want to play that role, i will merely play another.

i dont begrudge people who think ranger should be one way or another... that happens when there is no clear purpose.

now that we have a purpose, the speculation is gone and we can focus on how to make it kick-arse.

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Vorpaks wrote:

We will be what we before... which was not good enough.

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Paks, while I agree with the jist of your post, which preaches a bit of understanding between the two sides, I was taken aback to hear you say this. The fact is that none of have play-tested this. If I, with my Master Ranger/Master Scout/Master BH template, can do everything I do, plus also place ground traps, plus also participate in the GCW, then we'll be very good. Until we tested, it's all assumption how "good" we'll be, and stating your opinion as an out and out fact like this is slightly irresponsible.

We'll see how we turn out, but until then, all we have are opinions about how good we'll be.