Ranger Archive
Thread: Battle armor stays!
Message Edited by Phenix1050 on 09-22-2005 02:42 PM
Phenix1050 wrote:
Why? Bone armor would likely be light. Padded armor is described as being light and flexible. Wouldn't that be the best? Battle armor is the most flexible (in terms of resists) armor in the game. Recon armor will never be as good as battle at being flexible. To get the kinetic resists up to the same level as base battle, you have to drop the energy protection to below what the battle armor will have. Battle armor can be specialized to a much greater degree.
I reiterate, what about "recon" armor makes it better for recon? Other than the name? If it was just caused "energy resistant" armor, would you still lobby this hard for us to get it? The best argument I've heard thusfar is so we can get Imperial Scout Trooper Armor. Thatarmor wasfeatured heavily in a movie where the Rebel version of Rangers (sneaking into the base in camo) were featured, so they'd seem to be the Imperial Rangers.
But the absolute worst argument is so we can get more certs for those of us who'll already have a battle cert from their main profession. Those to me are more selfish arguments, less rooted in what's good for the Ranger profession, and more rooted what is good for that individual person. Some people have rifleman, some have BH, some have others. We can't base what armor we get on those factors though. We have to choose what would be best for a Ranger.
If the only profession you have in your template is Ranger, which armor makes the most sense in terms of FUNCTION? I say battle.
The only problem with the argument that battle is better is that it opens up the question of why we bother having the certs set at all. If we acknowledge that it is the best then why would any class want to stay recon or assault? Surely we should all start lobbying on behalf of the other professions to either move everyone to battle armor or to eliminate the certifications altogether and just hand out mitigations for all armor.
My argument has been (True, I love my scout trooper armor, but that isn't a consideration here) that there needs to be more diversity in the armor certs. Right now a majority of the combat professions rely on battle and only a few fringe professions go with recon/assault. Bumping up the number of both recon and assault certified professions would mean that more people would likely have a dual certification and have greater options when it comes to what they wear.
When it comes to the argument of the names of the armor classes, I have to say that I find them to be wholy accurate. Assault needs to be best against kinetic because its right up in the thick of combat where melee reigns supreme. (Keep in mind that as much as people rail against melee in star wars, melee weapons were seen constantly throughout the films and they have a definitive role in EU references as close combat preferences. The Long Vibro Axe has a solid history as an example of being developed to be used in ship boarding actions, probably why a gangster like jabba has so many pike users around.) Recon has an implication of being used at a range, which in turn implicates the use of energy weapons against it. Granted there are some kinetic ranged weapons but the majority of ranged weapons are energy.
IMO, Ranger and Combat Medic should be recon certed and pikemen should get moved to assault certifications.
Excuse me, but when was the last time anyone hunted a creature in town?
Phenix1050 wrote:
YT-2000 wrote:
I'll give you a reason why recon is a better option. We are NPC-centric now, and this is how I know:
- Mines will likely work against cratures, so that's not really a point.
- Wilderness camo will work against NPCs and creatures.
- City camo will also work against creatures in towns
- We'll still have scout pre-reqs to fight against creatures
- Blend in says we'll be able to blend into a crowd of humanoids. But there are humanoids in the woods (Nightsisters, etc.) This skill will likely also hide us against creatures.
in the end, it looks like all that's changing is that some skills will work against NPCs, some skills (scout skills) will work only against creatures, and some skills will work against both.
Thus, we're really involved in both halves of the game. Battle armor is better.
Iceovekan wrote:
Ugggh. Battle Armor is the most horrendous looking armor in the game. Except for Factional Armor...
I wouldn't get caught wearing padded armor. It just looks goofy, especially the mushroom helmet. The Marauder Armor looks bulky, and RIS is just okay for the helmet, the rest of it is just to archaic and heralds back to the samurai era. This is opposed to the Star Warsy feel that I'd like to get. Bone Armor, well it's just plain bone, especially has the stigma of newbie armor from Pre-CU days.
So, I guess it's Pistoleer, Smuggler, or Rifleman for recon. It really would make sense for the new Ranger to be Recon, as it's energy resists as most humanoids (ranged & jedi) are all energy damage.
For critter hunting, it's all about kiting, and if you're getting hit, then you're too close.
It's great that Ranger is becoming the Army Ranger vision. And besides, with the new pre-requisitesmost will become Master Ranger/Master Carbineer, and both hold Battle Armor Certs. Why be redundant? Recon will just give more flexibility and will fit in to the new Ranger paradigm.
agreed. battle armor is Ugly, guess my ranger cammando will have to stay with asault. ris belongs in a musem, and padded looks like a clown suit. Bone is the only sorta ok, and that fits EQ more than SWG. faction armor is the only part that looks good.
And as far as the armor cert goes, I just know I'd like some options in the armor I wear, and having the additional option of wearing recon armor would've been great. To that I say anyone with thier new set of 9 million credit RIS armor: you paid too much, and you need to pick up Carbineer, Doctor, CM, Swordsman, Pikeman, or Fencer. Lot of options in there to go with your RIS which probably shouldn't be seeing combat anyway.
SeanBlader wrote:
And as far as the armor cert goes, I just know I'd like some options in the armor I wear, and having the additional option of wearing recon armor would've been great. To that I say anyone with thier new set of 9 million credit RIS armor: you paid too much, and you need to pick up Carbineer, Doctor, CM, Swordsman, Pikeman, or Fencer. Lot of options in there to go with your RIS which probably shouldn't be seeing combat anyway.
wow...that's kinda...mean. I mean, because YOU want more options, other people should have to change their templates? So a rifleman/Ranger who chose Ranger to get their battle cert should have to change their template to carbineer against their will so you can get your cert. Better idea: If YOU want Recon armor, maybe YOU should change to pistoleer,riflemanor smuggler. If diversity is what you're after, then you should change.
Rangers have had battle armor, changing it makes no sense, and justifying by telling other people that they should have to change THEIR template when you aren't willing to change yours is kinda...cruel. I mean, it appears that Ranged weaponry is going to be a part of Ranger, so all those melee templates are likely to be useless. So what you're basically telling people who are Ranger now is that if they want battle, they have to be carbineer. I'm just shocked to see this opinion being expressed on the Ranger forums. It just seems so close-minded to say that if people want to keep what they have now, they should have to change their template, whereas you should be freely given the cert for new armor, and not have to change your template.
it's...wow., I can't say anything more.
Phenix1050 wrote:Rangers have had battle armor, changing it makes no sense, and justifying by telling other people that they should have to change THEIR template when you aren't willing to change yours is kinda...cruel. I mean, it appears that Ranged weaponry is going to be a part of Ranger, so all those melee templates are likely to be useless. So what you're basically telling people who are Ranger now is that if they want battle, they have to be carbineer. I'm just shocked to see this opinion being expressed on the Ranger forums. It just seems so close-minded to say that if people want to keep what they have now, they should have to change their template, whereas you should be freely given the cert for new armor, and not have to change your template.
Yeah wow. I said "I'd have liked to have some options" I didn't demand them. I didn't force a gun to someone's head saying change the certification. I said it would be great to have those options. I didn't explicitly say that someone's opinion was worthless. Maybe I was a little harsh when I said you "need" to pick up another profession, but that was really a suggestion for the people who paid in the multimillion credit range for their RIS. Rather than they demand that Ranger armor stay as a battle certification.
So to all those people who may have been offended that I suggested they spent too much on armor. I'm sorry. I do have a question though. If you don't PvP and you have RIS armor, why did you pay so much for it? I just soloed an Ancient in my padded, but barely even needed it anyway, it isn't worth much more than 600k for the set.
And lastly, what are these forums for, if not for expressing one's opinion. You of all people should understand that Phenix, especially while expressing yours at my expense.
SeanBlader wrote:
And lastly, what are these forums for, if not for expressing one's opinion. You of all people should understand that Phenix, especially while expressing yours at my expense.
Basically Phenix, you got all worked up over a hypothetical scenario, and over my opinion, and then had to make me feel like crap for having and expressing it. So instead of helping yourself and a few of us if it hurts others, hurting people for having opinions is the better way to go.
So the question becomes, were people hurt because I suggested that they might want to change their templates so they don't lose the use of a set of armor if the certification changed?
If the designers decide that carbineer is a pre-req that's fine with me and obviously a few others, yet you continue to argue against that, at our expense. So you go on and keep advocating trapping, I'll just wait and see what happens.
I dont think its like that at all phen, to me its all about numbers
Battle Armor Cert Professions = 8 (Carbineer, CH, Combat Medic, Doctor, Fencer, Pikeman, Ranger, Swordsman)
Recon Armor Cert Professions = 3 (Pistoleer, Rifleman, Smuggler)
Assault Armor Cert Professions = 3 (BH, SL, Commando)
By the numbers that doesn't look like a very even distribution to me, granted ranged gets more recon options but still one would hope that these numbers might not be set in stone but unfortunately they will be since no one wants to give up their composite Battle Armor.