Ranger Archive
Thread: Ok I am getting reallt freagin upset now!!!!!!!
Owen-Lars wrote:
Ive already asked tiggs whether using our trap is an exploit or its just not working as intended with serious balance issues. No response yet and im not holding my breath for a response over the weekend either as normally they dont post then. We will have to see though.
Owen,
Thank you
actually, there is a valid difference. Throwing a trap is exactly the way the skill was designed. double slicing is NOT the way the skill was designed. BIG difference. and if a creature aggros you first, a single p-dart will perma-root. So no, once in combat, it is impossible not to perma-root with a P-dart. You can break it by changing weapon types (melee to ranged), losing LoS and other factors, but the fact is that a single P-Dart during combat will perma-root. this is different because unlike the double slicing, unlike the FD workaround, you had to do something outside the norm. throwing a p-dart is NOT outside the norm. It's in our skills, it the same way you'd do it normally. Much, much different from a semantics point of view.
Serraphin wrote:
Yes you can land the Pdart without perma rooting but you almost always perma root by stacking but thats why you do it isn't it.
And it does not matter if it is a skill or not. The use of a known bug to your benefit or to avoid in game mechanics or content is an exploit unless SOE is changing their stance. Since Owen has ask we hopefully will get an answer soon.
You don't have to throw a Pdart. You must choose to throw a Pdart as there are many others traps to use. Throwing any other traps allows your trapping skill skill to work as intended. Throwing the Pdart with the intent to Perma Root a Krayt and solo it is using a known bug to your benefit and SOE has in the past taken a stance that this behavior is exploiting. Again, Owen has in his capacity as Corr ask the question regarding this trap and hopefully SOE can make a statement regarding its use. So as you say its semantics. Throw a different trap and there is no problem and your trapping skill works as intended. Throw the Pdart to perma root for your own benefit using a bug (Pdart) with the sole intent to bypass game mechanics now thats exploiting
Phenix1050 wrote:
actually, there is a valid difference. Throwing a trap is exactly the way the skill was designed. double slicing is NOT the way the skill was designed. BIG difference. and if a creature aggros you first, a single p-dart will perma-root. So no, once in combat, it is impossible not to perma-root with a P-dart. You can break it by changing weapon types (melee to ranged), losing LoS and other factors, but the fact is that a single P-Dart during combat will perma-root. this is different because unlike the double slicing, unlike the FD workaround, you had to do something outside the norm. throwing a p-dart is NOT outside the norm. It's in our skills, it the same way you'd do it normally. Much, much different from a semantics point of view.
Serraphin wrote:
Yes you can land the Pdart without perma rooting but you almost always perma root by stacking but thats why you do it isn't it.
And it does not matter if it is a skill or not. The use of a known bug to your benefit or to avoid in game mechanics or content is an exploit unless SOE is changing their stance. Since Owen has ask we hopefully will get an answer soon.
Message Edited by Serraphin on 07-01-2005 09:57 PM
Serraphin wrote:
You don't have to throw a Pdart. You must choose to throw a Pdart as there are many others traps to use. what other traps slows down a critter? oh right....none. P'dart is the only snare trap we have that works. Throwing any other traps allows your trapping skill skill to work as intended. I'm not talking about trap skillthough, am I? I'm talking about trapping working to help you hunt/survive. Throwing the Pdart with the intent to Perma Root a Krayt and solo it is using a known bug to your benefit and SOE has in the past taken a stance that this behavior is exploiting. Again, Owen has in his capacity as Corr ask the question regarding this trap and hopefully SOE can make a statement regarding its use. So as you say its semantics. Throw a different trap and there is no problem and your trapping skill works as intended. But there is no other snare trap, so you're argument is like saying a rifleman shouldn't use sniper shot because they also have ranged shot. It's a bug, not a new method of doing something in an intentional manner. You still do the same action, same trap, same place. No different. So where's the exploit? It's a bug. Throw the Pdart to perma root for your own benefit using a bug (Pdart) with the sole intent to bypass game mechanics now thats exploiting
Have to agree with Owen. It's an exploit if you abuse it for gain instead of using it normally like a conscientious person.
If in doubt, use your own judgement. Not mine, not Owen's, not Tigg's (lol wait for a reply from her, yeah), not your teamspeak buddy's, not your priest's or even your cat's. We have not heard anywhere that it is an exploit or of anyone being banned because of it, but we have seen it said that it is working as intended. While untrue, if they were concerned about it they would have made a statement about it and there would have been a hotfix sometime over the last 6 weeks. If you are waiting for a signed pardon from god before you use the trap, you might be waiting a while. If you feel uneasy about using the trap, simply don't use it.
You have to decide what makes the game fun for you, nobody else can do that.
You have to decide what bug you feel uneasy using, and nobody else can do that. If you do, simply don't use it.
Message Edited by Leafgreen on 07-01-2005 10:57 PM
Phenix the Pdart does not work it is bugged. So why do you insist that you must use it. Why because you are using it to perma root that is quite obvious. I'll say it onemore time. Using a known bug to achieve a specific benefit to bypass in game mechanics or avoid content is exploiting. The trapping skill is working as intended but the Pdart is not. You do not have to use it but when you hunt Krayts, GDKs or Gorax with it then the intent to perma root is quite clear. How so? Well if the Pdart worked as intended it would only snare the Krayt, GDK or Gorax. I did not see many Rangers soloing them whent he Pdart worked properly now that it is bugged you would have me belive that this is somehow our due because the adhesive trap does not work. No, sorry. Exploiting is exploiting whether done by Rangers or by Jedi.
Phenix1050 wrote:
Serraphin wrote:
You don't have to throw a Pdart. You must choose to throw a Pdart as there are many others traps to use. what other traps slows down a critter? oh right....none. P'dart is the only snare trap we have that works. Throwing any other traps allows your trapping skill skill to work as intended. I'm not talking about trap skillthough, am I? I'm talking about trapping working to help you hunt/survive. Throwing the Pdart with the intent to Perma Root a Krayt and solo it is using a known bug to your benefit and SOE has in the past taken a stance that this behavior is exploiting. Again, Owen has in his capacity as Corr ask the question regarding this trap and hopefully SOE can make a statement regarding its use. So as you say its semantics. Throw a different trap and there is no problem and your trapping skill works as intended. But there is no other snare trap, so you're argument is like saying a rifleman shouldn't use sniper shot because they also have ranged shot. It's a bug, not a new method of doing something in an intentional manner. You still do the same action, same trap, same place. No different. So where's the exploit? It's a bug. Throw the Pdart to perma root for your own benefit using a bug (Pdart) with the sole intent to bypass game mechanics now thats exploiting
Message Edited by Serraphin on 07-01-2005 11:05 PM
No, then you can move on.
Serraphin wrote:
Owen, Aside from this issue I think you have done an ASTOUNDING job. We just happen to disagree on this issue. What I would like for you to have done or do now is ask TIGGS or whomever you have the ability at SOE to ask to make a statement regarding this issue. Then we can move on.
Owen-Lars wrote:
Serraphin Wrote:
Many of us have reported and worked to remove this problem. However, our Corr appears to support this traps use in its current form and at least the appearance is that Owen has not strongly worked to remove this bug as he has other bugs that were not in our favor.
There is no-one who has said this isnt working as intended more than me, so dont get any idea that i think otherwise. Yes i dont have a problem with people using this bugged trap, just dont expect it to stay for long and certainly dont base your template around it, the bug will be fixed and soon enough because the devs know about it.
What did you want me to do? Dosky writingin an aeroplane above Austin saying we want this bug fixing above anything else. There are priorities and at this time trapping xp issues comes first, then traps not working then the one that least negatively influences our profession, which is the phec dart. The devs knew about it as soon as it turned up, make no mistake about it, but the main focus has been on getting trapping xp profession sorted and getting our other traps fixed at the same time to replenish the lost (albeit not as intended) effectiveness of the phec dart.
Make it so people can get novice ranger through trapping without dropping cl or going at 1xp a time
Fix the traps so we have an arsenal to work with and fix the phec bug
We should have (if all goes to plan) a working trap skillset (admitedly weak in ranger) where everythingworks as intended and can be leveled up without droppingcl or going at it 1 at a time.Maybe im wrong but that seems like agood deal to me.
Clearly you do not want to know if SOE feels that using the PDart to solo Krayts, Gorax, and Kimos is an exploit of a known bug. Are you that hooked to it already. Are you happy with Rangers potentially exploiting a known bug and feeling that somehow we have earned the right too?
BioEngine wrote:
No, then you can move on.
Serraphin wrote:
Owen, Aside from this issue I think you have done an ASTOUNDING job. We just happen to disagree on this issue. What I would like for you to have done or do now is ask TIGGS or whomever you have the ability at SOE to ask to make a statement regarding this issue. Then we can move on.
Owen-Lars wrote:
Serraphin Wrote:
Many of us have reported and worked to remove this problem. However, our Corr appears to support this traps use in its current form and at least the appearance is that Owen has not strongly worked to remove this bug as he has other bugs that were not in our favor.
There is no-one who has said this isnt working as intended more than me, so dont get any idea that i think otherwise. Yes i dont have a problem with people using this bugged trap, just dont expect it to stay for long and certainly dont base your template around it, the bug will be fixed and soon enough because the devs know about it.
What did you want me to do? Dosky writingin an aeroplane above Austin saying we want this bug fixing above anything else. There are priorities and at this time trapping xp issues comes first, then traps not working then the one that least negatively influences our profession, which is the phec dart. The devs knew about it as soon as it turned up, make no mistake about it, but the main focus has been on getting trapping xp profession sorted and getting our other traps fixed at the same time to replenish the lost (albeit not as intended) effectiveness of the phec dart.
Make it so people can get novice ranger through trapping without dropping cl or going at 1xp a time
Fix the traps so we have an arsenal to work with and fix the phec bug
We should have (if all goes to plan) a working trap skillset (admitedly weak in ranger) where everythingworks as intended and can be leveled up without droppingcl or going at it 1 at a time.Maybe im wrong but that seems like agood deal to me.
Serraphin wrote:
Owen-Lars wrote:
No, they were using an ability out of its normal function, excessively boosting of a slice enhancment far from what it ever should be, a calculated and obvious exploit, there is a MASSIVE difference. Scouts and rangers are using an ability as it currently function. You try and use phec dart any other way? I hunting like i always hunt and the bug always sticks. Im not exploiting, there is simply no other (normal) way to use that trap without it bugging for me.
Its bugged, simple as.
If the trap worked as normal then by some calculated and structured way we could get it to perma root then yes it would be an exploit. But that isnt the case.
Scouts and Rangers using a trap to perma root creature when that traps intended function is to snare is also outside of its normal function. Sorry Owen I have to disagree. The SIMPLE fact is Publish 19 should have removed or broke this trap until it is fixed.
I hunt quite often and the bug does not always stick unless you ensure it does for which there are many ways to land the perma root with guaranteed success and many ways to break it
Message Edited by Serraphin on 07-01-2005 08:54 PM
Message Edited by Serraphin on 07-01-2005 08:55 PM
If you don't think it is right, then don't use it. There are those of us who see the P-dart as a god-send, and therefore will use it as such. Please don't raid on our parade?
Wow...I am glad I started this post. Though I want to know something......say Tiggs does say that it is an exploit... (I dont think she will , but lets assume).... what would happen?...we know that Phec Darts CAN cause perma root with even just one dart. So, what you're saying is that regardless of if it is Krayts or Corellian Butterflies....using this trap would be an exploit?....think about that?....you are saying that Rangers are now BANNED from using the ONLY useful trap we have. Doesnt matter if it on crap creatures...or elite ones....IF it is an exploit....then they need to fix our traps NOW!!!!!!!!!! Who the freak is going to say "ok, SOE....I wont use these traps until you get around to fixing them".....hmmm, what is that you say??? 2009??? When hell freezes over???? hmmm ok, I wont use them"..... GET A GRIP!!!!
I say we report the people that are reporting us for harrassment... After all, they are profiling us..... they never report us if we are using Phec Darts to solo Tortons.....they only report us when we solo Krayts..... THAT IS PROFILING, AND PROFILING IS WRONG!!!!!!!
Please fix our traps.....but until you do....I will use it because it is the only thing going for us. I WANT THEM TO FIX OUR TRAPS>>>>>>>>> but until they do..... no one should EVER be BANNED for using the only thing that is working for us.
and when they do fix our traps.....(I will still hunt krayts) and I will learn how to solo them then.....(I can now....but all that running around.....who has the time) what will people complain about next?....I know....being a ranger is an exploit...BAN THE RANGERS.