Ranger Archive

Personally Nemo i cant wait to try hunting Krayts after the fix, i think it will be challange and especially after the roots/snares fixes (so you cant just chain them). The high end stuff was never meants to be solo'able and even the devs cringe ateven themention of solo'ingKrayts but they added an effect for wide use in the game that gives people an i win button (im talking roots in general and in particularaly dazes) and that needs fixing.

I remember in beta and early live, being a combat medic, Paralize would stop a creature from attacking like it does but the effect would allow you to attack without the effect dropping basically meaning you could solo anything in game because they couldnt fight back. That was used and refered to as a known balance issues and bug so i dont see how this is any different.

BRING ON THE TRAP FIX....!!!!!!!!!BRING ON THE KRAYT MEAT..... I LIKE MINE MEDIUM RARE.....what about u?

sorry, havent slept yet....rofl

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Serraphin wrote:

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Owen-Lars wrote:

Again the feign death 'ritual' needed you to do a calculated set of events to set up and actively seeked to use it to get your way. This isnt, this is a bug with the trap that simple doesnt drop its effect. Like i was saying before, if you had to go through this big set of events to set it up and activelly seeked to use the skill outside its normal purpose when for all other intents and purposes its workingcorrectly then yes it would be an exploit. But it isnt, you are just using the trap as it currently stands in the way a trap is suposed to be used in a normal hunting pattern using normal techniques.

The trap is bugged.

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And using a known bug for your benefit or to avoid game mechanics is an exploit

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1. A lot of traps are NOT working and HAVE NOT been working AS INTENDED for a LONG time. Now 1 trap WORKS a bit better then all of those NON-WORKING traps. That's a nice deal to me.


2. I agree with the fact that the trap IS BUGGED. However, calling it an EXPLOIT because you USE the trap goes way beyond logic. I should stop using traps alltogether because they are bugged (both the ones that alread not doing much as the only one that DOES work exceptionally) because it gives me an advantage just by using my ability on my own?

Excuse me, but that is the same as saying we should stop with our profession when there comes a bug into the game that gives us tracking of everything in a 10km radius (STOP USING TRACKING BECAUSE IT'S AN EXPLOIT)

3. If the combination of traps: ie first a p-dart, then 2 a-meshes, then another p-dart followed by an a-mesh would reveal this bug, THEN it would be an exploit: gaining a CALCULATED advantage by innapropiate use of the traps.

Therefore I cannot see using the p-dart as a ROOTing trap to be an exploit.

/shrug

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Serraphin wrote:

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Phenix1050 wrote:

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Serraphin wrote:

You don't have to throw a Pdart. You must choose to throw a Pdart as there are many others traps to use. what other traps slows down a critter? oh right....none. P'dart is the only snare trap we have that works. Throwing any other traps allows your trapping skill skill to work as intended. I'm not talking about trap skill though, am I? I'm talking about trapping working to help you hunt/survive. Throwing the Pdart with the intent to Perma Root a Krayt and solo it is using a known bug to your benefit and SOE has in the past taken a stance that this behavior is exploiting. Again, Owen has in his capacity as Corr ask the question regarding this trap and hopefully SOE can make a statement regarding its use. So as you say its semantics. Throw a different trap and there is no problem and your trapping skill works as intended. But there is no other snare trap, so you're argument is like saying a rifleman shouldn't use sniper shot because they also have ranged shot. It's a bug, not a new method of doing something in an intentional manner. You still do the same action, same trap, same place. No different. So where's the exploit? It's a bug. Throw the Pdart to perma root for your own benefit using a bug (Pdart) with the sole intent to bypass game mechanics now thats exploiting

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Phenix the Pdart does not work it is bugged. So why do you insist that you must use it. Why because you are using it to perma root that is quite obvious. I'll say it one more time. Using a known bug to achieve a specific benefit to bypass in game mechanics or avoid content is exploiting. The trapping skill is working as intended but the Pdart is not. You do not have to use it but when you hunt Krayts, GDKs or Gorax with it then the intent to perma root is quite clear. How so? Well if the Pdart worked as intended it would only snare the Krayt, GDK or Gorax. I did not see many Rangers soloing them whent he Pdart worked properly now that it is bugged you would have me belive that this is somehow our due because the adhesive trap does not work. No, sorry. Exploiting is exploiting whether done by Rangers or by Jedi.

Message Edited by Serraphin on 07-01-2005 11:05 PM

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Just so you know, the only reason krayts and such were not soloable with PDarts before the CU was that you could not hit them consistently. Pre CU, I could kill anything that I could consistently hit with a PDart (even when I was a Master Ranger/Master Squad Leader). If the current PDart worked only as a snare, all these creatures would still be soloable. You would just need to run around a bit and time your PDart throws instead of just standing there.

Properly functioning PDarts are extremely useful parts of a player's arsenal. A ranged Ranger not using PDarts is usually making his life a lot harder. I would bet that many of the Rangers currently using PDarts will still use them after the fix (and likely used them pre CU for unbuffed/unarmored hunting). To avoid the bug currently, you have to specifically modify your playstyle (unlike most of the listed exploits that required you to specifically modify your playstyle to perform them). Pre CU, using concealshot or uber armor/buffs or exceptional weapons basically let you kill anything in the game with no risk. None of those were bannable exploits (largely because of the difficulty in using those skills in any other way).

On the other hand, I don't know how many Rangers will still hunt krayts and such once the fix arrives. One can argue that a player is going out of their way to use a bug to their advantage by hunting elite creatures but many players try such creatures solo for a challenge anyway (there is very little in this game that I didn't manage to kill solo, unbuffed, and unarmored pre CU--this included all forms of krayts, nightsisters, gorax, most rare creatures [I never managed to find an albatross when I had the time and skill set necessary to do this], 50+ GDKs [with no scale drop], the Geo Cave/Acklay, the Corvette, etc). A lot of this did not involve the PDart pre CU because I couldn't hit the stuff but the effect would have been useful in many cases. And, even now, it is possible to solo a lot of the high end creatures without a PDart if you have the right template (I managed to solo a Gorax post CU during the respec period as an MSL/MBH/Pistoleer 0004--no trapping skill past novice scout in this template).

In the end, I think this ends up being more of a personal decision. While it could be bannable, it would end up being a very subjective decision that would probably be hard to enforce (if I am in a group of 8 hunting krayts and my only skill set is Master Ranger, is it wrong of me to use all my traps? If not, would it be wrong of me to use one specific trap? Would this answer be the same if I'm hunting solo? What about if we are hunting rancors instead of krayts?). If you don't feel right using it, don't use it. If you want to use it, I doubt you will get banned. I'm just hoping it will get balanced along with all the other traps and that said balancing happens sooner rather than later (if only to end all the debates).

I will still solo high level creatures. Only for my personal looting needs.

I am trying to obtain the components for a personal suit of Rebel Battle Armor to be made with as many Creature-lootable components as I can fit into it.

Then I will choose a ranged weapon, and obtain the proper creature loot to fit into it as well.

Then I will ADK it.

And then my Big Game Hunting will slow down to a crawl.

Well, I took a trip around the graveyard and the place was swarming with people. Some soloing, some taking them in groups.

I found 1 kraty in the entire area that wasn't being camped... there was a lone TKM soloing a canyon krayt with no real problem... looked like he set a macro and went afk, then there was a juvi off a short distance away... he was taking the regular down slow enough I decided to take the juvi... got out my pets and droid and started on it. 2 of us "side by side" each soloing them with totally different tactics... I also ran across several others soloing using different techniques during my travels. There is no exploit here, move along.

***deleted by self***

Message Edited by Almagill on 07-03-2005 12:22 AM

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Serraphin wrote:

Then riddle me this Owen. At one time in the game A master smuggler using his slicing ability sliced a weapon and then handed the said weapon to another master smuggler who then sliced it again. Uhhh. Whats that. They were simply using their abilities: slicing and oh my gosh the slicing ability did not work as intended. Many smugglers were banned for this.

Message Edited by Serraphin on 07-01-2005 08:43 PM

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The process for this multiple slicing bug was so convoluted and precise in its obvious circumvention of a game mechanic and its obvious result in greatly unbalancing PvP by giving player characters obscenely overpowered weapons that its use couldn't be interepreted as anything BUT an exploit. The situation regarding ranger traps doesn't hurt anyone directly, whereas quadruple slicing a weapon clearly endangers another's right to fair gameplay by causing another harm. There are magnitudes of "sin" when it comes to exploits. Throwing a trap at a critter that never breaks could be classified as a venial sin -- which will get you a slap on the wrist. Quadruple slicing a weapon so that it is 300% more times powerful and can one-hit-kill a player could be classified as a mortal sin -- something that is unforgiveable and can lend you in Hades (or in SWG, permabanned).

Okay - from the Knowledge base "How do I know if I am exploiting or not?"

Answer:

A Good General rule of thumb is: If you are doing something that gives you an uneven advantage over a MOB a player or the game system. You are most likely exploiting.

Well, I'm having a blast using P-darts.I've killed maybe 4 Krayts in 2 weeks. But, honestly I'm always down for a Krayt hunt with my friends. So, if the opportuniy came up for me to make some serious dough using my "exploit" I'd jump right on it. Let anyone who cares "report" me. Let me get banned or whatever and that's $14 * 3 accounts that I'm saving. That's no threat either. Simply put, this is a game that I pay to play. So, if people like Serraphin want to turn it into a job so be it. As for me and most of the community here, I support our correspondent and not the apparently jealous guy(Serraphin) who wishes that he worked for SOE so that he could define what an "exploit" is. Sarraphin this is to you: take a /bow and sit down for god's sake. You're ruining my experience and I'm not even in-game. You're the exploit,god didn't intend for you to have fingers but you do. We are all customers paying to get the same service; the devs are working on it is all we need to hear, so dous all a favor and /format C.

This has been in the game two months, not one word has been said, no responses have been given as to whether it's an exploit or not. I'm not sure there's even been acknowledgement that it's a bug or not. A lot of things changed in the CU--if I didn't read these boards (and most Rangers don't), I'd assume it was working as intended.

All of our traps are not worth throwing, except for one: Adhesive Mesh. But it's broken, so we snare. Only the snare (p-dart) is bugged, so it's working like... Adhesive Mesh, except we don't have to keep throwing it, at least not as often.

It is not a ticket to invulnerability. It can break or be broken. We retain risk.

It is not useful unless we are soloing or hunting big game.

It is not universally utile.

It is not unbalancing.

It is not an exploit.

It is a bug. The fact it is a beneficial bug does not automatically make it an exploit. We have no way to work around the situation while retaining functionality. Please don't suggest not using traps--that's like telling a doctor not to heal because a bug is letting them do complete heals every time. That's a bug, too, but what else is he supposed to do?

When Tiggs or someone at SOE says, "We are going to consider this an exploit," you know we will stand up and listen (and probably protest because, again, what else are we supposed to do?).

For an analogy about the p-dart vs. the slicing thing:

- We're walking up to the checkout counter with our gallon of milk, but get charged for a quart. The clerk says, "Oops, it's mispriced, but that's our fault. We'll fix it eventually, don't worry about it for now." We told the manager, he's not concerned.Are we supposed to stop buying milk? I don't know about you, but my cereal is lonely.

- The Smugglers bought one gallon of milk and shoplifted ten more.

Maybe we're just used to the fact thata bug is almost always a bad thing.

After just browsing the jedi forums (it's okay, I did /maskscent to protect me from the flamers) I am quite sure that they would have no qualms at all about using this trap. If they can get away with planting a house at every mission to run into, having a buddy with a vehicle ready to /offerride and pay their friend the BH to kill them and stay off the terms.. what's a little trap?

Message Edited by Leafgreen on 07-03-2005 04:38 AM