Ranger Archive
Thread: From a Commando to Rangers: Congrats! (but why the heck soe giving you OUR stuff?)
tacwraith wrote: the stealthy assassin role is RIFLEMAN not Ranger
Oh so wrong...
Pistoleer and Carbineer didn't get profession-specific abilities like Rifleman did.
None of those professions should ever have gotten "support"-abilities like /cover. You pick your weapon-profession and then you build your template around that.
/Cover was a Ranger-idea, we should have gotten it in the first place. Rifleman who wanted to be snipers could have picked up Ranger.
As for the ground-traps, I'm tempted to hand them over to you Commandos if I could. They'll most likely be as "effective" as your grenades and heavy weapons.
Now that we didn't get our current traps changed to work on NPCs and players, maybe you guys should lobby to get states and de-buff grenades added to Commando.
If eveything else fails, after the revamp you'll have enough SP to pick up Master Ranger
Oku Kee'lus "Personally I'll likely go SL/Commando/Ranger, taking trees I want for the skills I want, to be the ranger I wanted since day 1"
You do realize SL/Commando/Ranger will have no ranged special attacks right? General Ranged Shot all the way.
In any case, a week after the ranger revamp goes live i'll come back here and say I TOLD YOU SO when your proffession becomes the single most unbalancing factor in the game. All combat types will be forced to take up stealth or die by a stealther. Its happened in DAOC and in other games... it doesnt matter if its a fantasy or sci-fi based MMPORG... players will always flock to the stuff with the most power. high damageranged+stealth is the most powerful and unbalancing combination any game can have. Rifleman has cover now but its static. Ranger will be able to move while stealthed... heck just look at the insane whining about jedi force cloak! Imagine if every jedi out there had a 64m T21 with sniper shot and cloak! and EASILY available by just going up a ranger branch or 2. I've seen it happen before and it will happen here. You wait and see.
tacwraith wrote:
"Personally I'll likely go SL/Commando/Ranger, taking trees I want for the skills I want, to be the ranger I wanted since day 1"
You do realize SL/Commando/Ranger will have no ranged special attacks right? General Ranged Shot all the way.
In any case, a week after the ranger revamp goes live i'll come back here and say I TOLD YOU SO when your proffession becomes the single most unbalancing factor in the game. All combat types will be forced to take up stealth or die by a stealther. Its happened in DAOC and in other games... it doesnt matter if its a fantasy or sci-fi based MMPORG... players will always flock to the stuff with the most power. high damageranged+stealth is the most powerful and unbalancing combination any game can have. Rifleman has cover now but its static. Ranger will be able to move while stealthed... heck just look at the insane whining about jedi force cloak! Imagine if every jedi out there had a 64m T21 with sniper shot and cloak! and EASILY available by just going up a ranger branch or 2. I've seen it happen before and it will happen here. You wait and see.
So why complain to us? We can't do a thing about the revamp. Like everyone else, this was a surprise to us. If you have issues, make a toon on TC, and test out the imbalances with us. Complaining accomplishes nothing, only action.
I sense Ranger-envy more than someone concerned about his profession here.
Same here I was a Commando / BH just before Ranger called me back............*sniff* I miss myFlame Thrower and my Thermal detonators
Phenix1050 wrote:
Stimy wrote:
stop complaining
don't be rude. He's entitled to his opinion. Ranger were upset when Jedi and Rifleman got stealth and we didn't, we expressed ourselves then. This commando has the right to be upset, but I must say that it fits with what we're going to be, but I hope Commando gets fleshed out a bit. Let's not start telling people who have concerns not to voice them, because they have as much right to their opinion as you do.
. Maybe once these changes go live i can re-grind to Master Ranger / Master Commando. 
Not all commandos feel as though this does not fit Ranger. I think it's perfect. The old, mostly wasteful use of all those skill points in stuff like camping is what made no sense. This is precisely what a Ranger should be, as in the US Army Rangers. Light, fast, hard hitting special operations experts, able to recon targets, perform counter insurgency, and hit soft targets behind enemy lines, getting in and out before anyone realizes how much they've just been hurt.
Grats Rangers, this has been a long, long time coming,
/salute
They already have them. Grenades are *supposed to* apply a state-- almost every single one of them. There are DoTs, roots, blinds, etc effects that are far more effective that Ranger traps every were because they also apply damage. I could say that that was stepping on our toes, but in the end, I think everythings worked out alright.
Oculus wrote:
Now that we didn't get our current traps changed to work on NPCs and players, maybe you guys should lobby to get states and de-buff grenades added to Commando.
Message Edited by Phenix1050 on 09-18-2005 01:46 PM
perhaps you didn't see the little caveat-- first of all, other Rangers can force you out of stealth at any time. Secondly, unlike DAOC, the stealth devices have a limited amount of time that they worked for, You couldn't camp a PvP zone all day, like you could in DAOC. There is no word on how long these timers are, it could be as little as 1 minute. Fact is we don't know and saying that the sky is falling and that you're going to come back here and say "I told you so" is reactionary and immature. Why don't you hold off and wait until we have details? Information is always better than speculation.
tacwraith wrote:
"In any case, a week after the ranger revamp goes live i'll come back here and say I TOLD YOU SO when your proffession becomes the single most unbalancing factor in the game. All combat types will be forced to take up stealth or die by a stealther. Its happened in DAOC and in other games...
/flame on
Too bad. If you knew the history of what rangers have been going through you wouldn't have made this post. Now go away.
/flame off
Yeah...the snare on the Cyroban (we don't have a root btw) lasts 3-5 seconds, and the timer for the grenade is 18-25 seconds. Timers between -all- grenades is 18 seconds, then theres a secondary timer between grenades of the same type.
Also factor in:
*Weak Damage (Think for max CL54's: 800-1000 damage, and these babies are the 25-45 second timer grenades)
*bugs
*The pain in the arse to produce them...
*Other professions have roots/snares as specials, and the fact that these consumables/our HW's are our specials...
And they really, didn't work out alright. I'm hoping that Rangers' traps become very effective and useful and my concern isn't necessarily a "you got something that is commando-esque". Placing mines and using them *has* been an idea on our wishlists for the last year or two, so I can see where tacwraith is coming from. However, what Im concerned about is that an explosive given to you folks, would be far superior to any explosive, in a profession built off of explosives. Just like you folks...many times we've been left in the dust.
Hopefully this concern is unwarrented, and we'll see something along the lines of:
Ranger places booby traps and minefields for the unwary traveler. Commando throws grenades to blow up some heads. Both are useful, both produce state effects, both help aid in damage...but both have a unique role...one's geared to cause mischief and blow up feet, the other is geared around to sheer damage capability. Demo-charges that could be placed, like in ROTJ when Han Solo blew up the endor shield generator, for Commando would be ideal (since I would assume that a kaminoan dart would be thrown, so we would be able to get a high explosive charge to set).
In all, I feel it would be a great way to better improve templating...as both professions would improve, where one could gain more damage and the other more knowledge in setting ambushes with 'em, when join together...rather than one relying on the other for abilities they should already have. It really is somewhat of a seperate issue in regards to the ranger revamp (which I have felt always was needed before a revamp/mini-revamp for us), but it does have some connection that traps are supposedly going to function similarly to grenades (more or less speculation). And if traps will be a primary mover of damage for rangers, then where would that leave our grenades...which are not?
Message Edited by StarNick on 09-18-2005 04:22 PM
I agree Star-- grenades need work. But I think that this sets a good division between Ranger and Commandos. Heavy Assault Troops against Light Assault troops. Rangers plan ahead of time, using stealth to soften up the target. Commando's come in, take out the turrets and take out the assualt vehicles that come along. Rangers set off the traps as the troops rush out of the base, paving the way for a commando to chuck a grenade to finish them off.
Commando's and Rangers should work well together, provided Commando's get some nice changes (which they richly desrve).