Ranger Archive
Thread: Interesting Feedback in the Scout forum...
I'd modify Delta's statement and say that 50% of the Master Scouts will go into the Ranger line.
I'm not convinced that BH would pick up Ranger. With only 33 skill points left, I would imagine they would get something like Medic and make that a high priority. Creature Handler is also very appealing to the BH line.
The only reason they mentioned it there (and it was added at the end) was because they realized that Rangers would blow a gasket if we were losing /maskscent... so they did that to prevent rangers from going postal...
I think the one thing that would cause more of a blown gasket is if the scout list gets responded to and the ranger list does not. I have faith that we will get ours very soon...but I honestly was expecting to see the scout list and the Ranger list covered at the same time since it was already determined that the scout dev and ranger dev are the same guy.
Put me on the list of being slightly dishearten with the proposed changes to Maskscent. Though I will wait to see what they plan on giving Rangers with Camo. My biggest fear is that they will make the change to Maskscent and then it will be a month or more before we see changes to Ranger that make us stand out from scouts.
Okay...lets see what the Ranger report will say.
-gustavef
I just lost all reason to be a Ranger, like almost all of you I findhuntingcreatures fun but I feel the creature to hit bonus is not enough, it's better to put those point into a weapon skill. Also unlike most you I want to be a rare hunter, and it sounds like rare forageing is not going to happen any time soon. and any thought of harvesting a rare item is long gone as well. I still hunt creatures but feel a master scout/combat character will be better at it then a ranger/combat character.
Good Luck
Well, it is interesting to know how busy the Ranger Dev is, or should I say the Scout/Ranger/Tailor/Chef/Squad Leader/Merchant/Smuggler/Player City Dev. So I guess it is just good to know, that if you want any of those things, don't expect too much. I'd be curious to see how many actual Devs they have, like is the BH dev, handle other combat professions too?
Anyway, I got off topic. I do want to welcom Delta, as other threads have started on that topic, and still have to disagree on the 50% Master Scout comment. That would assume that both the Bounty Hunter and the Ranger are equally appealing to the masses out there. To me, that is like saying that 50% of the Master Marksman go commando, which I doubt is true. I'm curious to think why you (Delta) think that path of the Scout leads to Ranger for most players.
Anyway, the reason for the anit-pathy towards the scout, is cause, well with the resent scout feedback, the difference between a Ranger (from Novice to Master) and a Master Scout just got a whole lot smaller. The supply of creature harvested resources just went up. Now, if it were true that most of the hybrid professions didn't require scout, and that almost every newbie combat character will pickup scout (and medic), then we wouldn't have much to gripe about. The problem is, that a large percentage of the population has some sort of scout skills. Pretty much, all the scout skills are obtained at novice (some good traps and mask scent aren't, I know). And as you progress through the tree you do get better at them. Basically, then, the Ranger, who has spent a whole bunch of skill points, is basically a Novice Scout (yes I am over exagerrating, but not by much), that does the exact same things as a Novice Scout. (A Pistoleer will do the same things as a Novice Marksman, but not the exact same things).
So, cooperation with the scouts is good. But Delta, you really need to understand the Ranger position. Improving scouts improves Ranger, true. But that is also like saying, improving Scouts, improves Squad Leaders, Bounty Hunters, Creature Handlers, and Bio-Engineers. And what they did in this latest feedback, is lets narrow the gap between what a Ranger is and a Scout. To me, although the features are good, the effect it has on the Rangers isn't.
Take a much closer look at what is really being said -
maskscent is going to max at master scout, Rangers will be getting something to harness camo - separation from scouts, only rangers will have this new skill.
crafting traps and camps and fishing (which is getting an overhaul to make it more appealing, because right now it has all the appeal of, well, it has none) now give frontiering xp. Bonus, especially if factory production of traps gives frontiering xp. Anything that speeds this grinding chore is good.
foraging on the back burner - well, I'll try to get more info on how/if this affects the rare item forage bug.
multiple harvest - reduced resources, but more than one person can harvest. I think this definitely acceptable.
All of these things are improvements to Rangers - granted, its nothing "new" per se, and trapping isn't really mentioned, but the fact that they haven't posted the ranger feedback yet might be a clue.
I'm biding my time...waiting.
DeltaXi65 wrote:
I have to admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the some of the anti-scout antipathy here. We're all on the same team guys. I hate - as much, if not more - all of the CHs and BHs who treat the Scout tree like its some kind of speed bump to their uberl33t-ism. Anyone who reads the Scout boards knows that I rank CHs on my list of favorite things right above poo-eating and below papercuts on the eye. BHs generally aren't as snotty.
Hee hee! I like your ranking system. err wait... I'm a CH! Oh well, I will thrive to be better than a papercut on the eye. When I do, well see what's next in your favorite things to do 
-Landru on Ahazi
drezbizkit wrote:
The problem is, that a large percentage of the population has some sort of scout skills.
I'd say that a large percentage of the population has some sort of weapon combat skills (it's nice to hurt things as a distance), and medic skills (gotta heal gotta heal),and artisan skills (dang, that surveying is useful). Scouting is just one of those things that a lot of people have at the novice level because it's useful at the novice level. The same for the other professions (well, except for entertainer).
A friend of mine just recently decided to apply her scouting skills (which she has let accumulate as she worked on her artisan skills) towards becoming a CH. The degree of change between how masked scent works the first time you receive it and at level IV is something that she definitely noticed. I'm shocked at how fast I can travel now that I am a Ranger (I can remember when I felt like I was merely walking up hills).
I think you are overexaggerating (by more than just a little). The difference between what a novice artisan can do and a novice architect seems so much bigger because you can clearly see what makes one different from the other through what they could craft. A Pistoleer, in the end, is still shooting his/her prey, justwith different modifiers that allow them to gain the advantage within a fight (so, I think a pistoleer is doing the same thing as a novice marksman). A Ranger will do the same things as a Novice Scout but not the exact same things. A Ranger can make a camp that repels aggro creatures and has a regen bonus. They can make a wide assortment of traps that affect creatures differently so that the ranger can gain the advantage within a fight. A Ranger will have the advantage of masked scent when, fixed, will give you experience without attacking a creature (eat that, Pistoleer, who cannot gain experience if they do not attack).
Yes, the new stuff does make the difference between a Novice Ranger and a Master Scout seem rather small but I think new things will be thought up for the Ranger profession and will demonstrate a "next generation" of Scout for those that wish to explore the elite level. The advantages they've added help enhance the Ranger profession and I have faith that the developers will work on Ranger to have the profession have a marked difference from its base profession.
Mineras wrote:Take a much closer look at what is really being said -
maskscent is going to max at master scout, Rangers will be getting something to harness camo - separation from scouts, only rangers will have this new skill.
crafting traps and camps and fishing (which is getting an overhaul to make it more appealing, because right now it has all the appeal of, well, it has none) now give frontiering xp. Bonus, especially if factory production of traps gives frontiering xp. Anything that speeds this grinding chore is good.
foraging on the back burner - well, I'll try to get more info on how/if this affects the rare item forage bug.
multiple harvest - reduced resources, but more than one person can harvest. I think this definitely acceptable.
All of these things are improvements to Rangers - granted, its nothing "new" per se, and trapping isn't really mentioned, but the fact that they haven't posted the ranger feedback yet might be a clue.
I'm biding my time...waiting.
You are being optimistic. I will be pessimist.
They are going to nerf Mask Scent even more for Rangers. Then they are percievably going to give it back to the ranger in the form of Camo? How is losing something then getting it back an improvement.
Frontier experience is going to be easier. How does this help a line that is arguably worthless to start with. Even if you find a use for it there cannot be such a need for that getting it sooner should be considered an improvement.
Foraging. Well I agree. It should be put on hold. As long as foraged items do not stack I find the skill only worthwile in experimenting in trying to find a usefullness for having the skill.
Letting more people harvest is a scout improvement, not Ranger.
I'm bidding my time Waiting.
Drez,
"I'm curious to think why you (Delta) think that path of the Scout leads to Ranger for most players."
Because we enjoy it, Drez. Scouting is fun. I love doing it. So do most of the other posters in the Scout forums. Most of us who take the time to play our Scout character like a Scout end up going ranger. And since there are only two elite professions that require Master Scout (BH and Ranger), I think it's very safe to say that half of those of us who get Master Scout go on to Ranger.
"Anyway, the reason for the anit-pathy towards the scout, is cause, well with the resent scout feedback, the difference between a Ranger (from Novice to Master) and a Master Scout just got a whole lot smaller."
And this difference will remain small for the next 12 or so hours (maybe a little bit more) before the Ranger post goes up and you get all of the content that you've been looking for gets added. Patience!
"The supply of creature harvested resources just went up"
Not really. Because of the changes in the amount of XP given by the lower level camps that require hide and bone, you'll see an increased drain on hide and bone in the economy by us Scouts. The more we need for getting Survival XP, the less we'll have to sell.
" But Delta, you really need to understand the Ranger position. Improving scouts improves Ranger, true. But that is also like saying, improving Scouts, improves Squad Leaders, Bounty Hunters, Creature Handlers, and Bio-Engineers."
I'm 30k worth of Frontiering away from being a Master Ranger. I understand our position 100%. Improving Scout does improve those other professions, but not at the rate it improves Scouts and Rangers, because after you hit Novice, SLs, BHs, CHs and BEs don't need any more Trapping/Survival/Scouting XP. Rangers do - so anything that increases the rate we gain Scout XP helps Rangers.
Our Correspondent Mineras just put up an excellent post - read it.
Patience! We've waited this long. Another few hours isn't going to kill anyone.
B
Raz,
Don't be pessimistic. It makes me cry.
"They are going to nerf Mask Scent even more for Rangers. Then they are percievably going to give it back to the ranger in the form of Camo? How is losing something then getting it back an improvement."
You know, I really don't get it. Why do people constantly think that the Devs are really just little gremlins, sitting in their cubicles in Austin thinking up ways to piss us off? What in God's name could another nerf to Maskscent help? Making Maskscent a Scout skill helps to create differences between Scouts and Rangers. The fact that they're changing the base skill means that they've got a new skill planned for Camo. This isn't a "losing something and getting it back" - it's getting something brand new on top of something else. We're complaining that there isn't enough to seperate us from Scouts so they give us one, and you don't like it.
"Frontier experience is going to be easier. How does this help a line that is arguably worthless to start with. Even if you find a use for it there cannot be such a need for that getting it sooner should be considered an improvement."
Worthless? How is creating a larger camp that heals faster and creates a safe haven in the wilderness worthless? How is creating a camp that lets Doctors make Rezz packs, Armorsmiths armor, Weaponsmiths weapons, etc. in the middle of the deserts of Tatooine worthless? And there are a lot of other types of camps that are in the works that will make this even more worthwhile. This isn't pessimism - it's not being in touch with reality.
"Foraging. Well I agree. It should be put on hold. As long as foraged items do not stack I find the skill only worthwile in experimenting in trying to find a usefullness for having the skill."
Take up fishing. Get a pet. Those are both good uses of the foraging skill. My wife Daria is constantly bugging me to forage for her so she can fish. She loves it.
"Letting more people harvest is a scout improvement, not Ranger."
Exactly. That's why is was on the SCOUT CORRESPONDENT'S REPORT. (Emphasis added).
Look - I'm not the developers lapdog. When they do something to piss me off, they hear about it. Q's gotten about 14 emails from me on an issue I had with my PA after the last update, and I had fired off three or four of them on maskscent within 5 hours of the update last Wednesday. But what I am willing to do is to give them the benefit of the doubt, wait for their responses and then progress logically from there.
If you can't do this, you need to reevaluate your reasons for being a Ranger. If Rangering is "worthless" to you, then don't do it.
B
Take what I say and mix it with what you say, that is what the devs should do. If they just listened to you or just to me then many are not going to be pleased.