Ranger Archive
Thread: Official Notes from TH (not many, but a start)
dhcpSilicon wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
- Will camps ever heal BF? Camps healing BF will remove the need for a cantina. Probably won't happen (as was stated by NRaas).
He's aware that we meant we wanted the ability *for entertainers* to heal BF in our camps, right? We're not asking for them to heal it like they heal wounds - although at the rate that happens, is it really taking away from the medic profession? Wouldn't entertainers be safe? =)
Allot of the programming features of SWG are excellent, but that post has finally convinced me that the senior Devs seem to have no idea of game play.
I can understand the want for healing BF in camps with an Entertainers help but its chump change right now guys. You really arent affected much by BF til it gets around 250 so I think this is a small point that they wont give on. I would say we drop this argument and focus on the issue of this thread.
We need to argue out the fine details of needing a harvesting increase for Master Ranger. If someone could hashout the numbers needed by each dependent profession vs what one Master Ranger could can harvest that would get the ball rolling.
Example: A Master Armorsmith needs what organic resouces to make one suit of armor? How much meat a Doc needs to build buff packs. All of these things are of course dependent on the use of Factories. Everyone wants stacks of however much of this or that. We need maximum output of a particular creature resources vs time to harvest.
Lets face it.. not every Ranger has an elite combat profession. And I usually only hunt solo so my hunting takes along time on large creatures and just that much longer when killing rasps/gnorts/pekos or whatever. Considering that Avian meat is the only meat to make the top quality buff packs that means we are just limited my hunting one creature that may or may not always be available.Even tho we can /areatrack it doesnt help much since we can see spawns to be.
Fight one battle at a time guys and save the small skirmishes for some other time.
Each Class in Star Wars Galaxies Should Serve a unique and useful function.
Now I would sit down and do a run down of every signle class, but the devs already know how each class is unique and useful. So I will focus on the Ranger and how it does not fit this description.
We have four distinct branches of training in our class
Wayfaring: Wayfaring increases the effectiveness of Mask scent which is one of the two tools Rangers use most. The camoflauge aspect of Wayfaring is a non-functioning novelty. Wayfaring serves to make the Ranger more stealthy. It could be improved to allow it to function more effectively. Creatures do not charge the Ranger unless Mask Scent breaks in most cases, and it does break in most cases. Furthemore, agressive creatures have a higher instance of ignoring mask scent once the Ranger opens fire.
Conclusion: Wayfaring needs to either replace Camoflauge or make it a more funcitonal tool that can be combined with Mask Scent. These two skills used in conjunction could seriously raise the chances that a Ranger could fight from a blind successfully.
Frontiering: Is unique in concept but is not useful due to the latest publish which no longer requires camps to pull vehicles, droids, or creatures. I totally agreed with creatures. Creatures belong in the wild and becuase of that should not need to be pulled from the camps. However by taking this requirement out of the game to placate to the masses of players who want to o everything as fast as possble, developers have removed the purpose of an entire tree of our class. Wounds, and healing still happen in a camp, but players are now mor apt to simply drive back to a city to receive their healing.
Conclusion: Camps must be made useful again. There are several proposals for this. I believe that Rangers should be able to join the fight without losing their "field base" type camps. The modular camp proposal is also a popular idea and would add a dynamic useful aspect back into camps.
Tracking: The only truly useful tree left in the Ranger Class. There is a reson all of the dabblers only go 0-0-4-0 in ranger. The tracking ability is useful, but limited. We have stated over and over the changes that need to be made to this skill. With fast moving vehicles travelling in and out of our tracking area, the range for tracking PLAYERS should be expanded. We also have demonstrated how lairs that only spawn creatures when players approach are not tracked useing areatrack.
Conclusion: Tracking is a tire losing air. It is still the best part of our profession. However certain tweaks need to be made. All payers should be trackable regardless of if they are "searchable". PvPers normally turn off the searchable box in their options before raiding. Rangers should still be able to TRACK these people. There is a distinctions to be made here between searchable and trackable. Tracking ranges for players need to be increased.
Trapping: Traps require alot of resources and time to make in bulk. Weigh that versues their duration of their effect on higher level creatures and the percent that they are effective at all and you then understand why no one uses them after we have ground out the xp to master our profession.
Conclusion: Traps need to have longer durations and a higher percentage of effectivness to be considered a useful part of our career.
Harvesting: Rangers have a higher bonus than any other class when it comes to Harvesting. However when you compare this bonus to a Master Scout/BH the Bounty Hunter will win every time in a comparison over time of who actually harvests more organic resources.
Conclusion: Rangers Harvesting Mod should be increased or the Ranged fighting bonuses we recieved need to be adjusted to mke us more of a fighting class.
To summarize Rangers are not useful, as i have demonstrated above. All of our functions are surpassed by others or have been rendered useless by changes made to the game. We are unique in that we are the only elite class who does not have a function soley to itself. Scouts can harvest resources, so it appears we are the V6 of harvesting where scouts are the V4, Commandos and BH's are the V8's.
Jalen,
Thats a well written arguement that shows why we are in need of attention.
What it does not address, however, is why we should be put before every other profession in the revamp schedule.
Ask TH if this is a good clear arguement posted 08-19-2003 Yes 8 months ago
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Here's the dev reply on this one. I want to emphasize that some of these changes are large enough that they will take a while.
1. We aren't unique.
"Rangers have very little that differentiates them from scouts. Once Master Scout is reached, Ranger is essentially more of the exact same thing."
In my mind this issue is of critical importance and largely trumps the rest of the Correspondent list. The other 4 issues are mainly issues with inhereted scout ability bugs.
The focus of this post will be on how we are making Ranger different from scout. Ideologically, the ranger is still a "super scout." The key is implementing new and unique ways to go about that kind of gameplay.
Each skill tree is being adjusted to be more interesting and unique.
Wayfaring
Scent mask is now the realm of scouts. Rangers will now get a similar ability called /conceal. A Ranger's conceal ability works very much like scentmask, except for three differences. First, it is a lot more potent: it lasts longer (up to 25 minutes for a Master Ranger) and it rarely breaks. Second, it can be applied to other players. You can now conceal your friends to give them a chance to sneak past enemies as well. The success of the conceal depends on the skill of the Ranger who applied it. Third, it requires a component to apply: a camouflage kit. Camouflage kits are crafted by the Ranger and are planet specific. For example, a Desert Camouflage Kit will allow a Ranger to conceal themselves on Tatooine. Each camouflage kit is assembled from resources gathered on the planet it affects. Camo kits for advanced planets like Endor may be fairly difficult to assemble.
The Ranger will earn experience for successful sneak checks by players he conceals.
It is also possible that the rescue command will be beefed up and moved to the Wayfaring tree (it doesn't really fit in trapping). Bugs with rescue are being fixed as well.
Frontiering
The most important change to Frontiering will be the introduction of special camps. These camps will not operate like a normal rest camp. The Ranger's "Hunting Blind" will give him special bonuses to attracting and hunting creatures as long as he stays within it. Other special camps with unique functionality are being designed.
Bugs with camps repelling creatures will be fixed...see the scout correspondent response post for information on camp xp related changes and fixes.
Field Bioscience --> Tracking
The Field Bioscience skill tree will be renamed Tracking. All of the current functionality will remain with two major additions.
/scanarea - At Novice Ranger, the Ranger will recieve the /scanarea command. Players familiar with EQ's tracking system will understand how this works. You can search the area for animals, people, or players. As you climb the tracking tree, more options and information (like direction and distance) will appear. This should make rangers effective at completing hunting missions or tracking down a specific target.
/track - Higher up the Tracking tree, the Ranger will earn the /track command. The /track command will let the Ranger specify a specific creature he wants to find. Hunting for a Veermok? If you are in a region where Veermok live, you can /track for one. Tracking a creature will lead the player on a small mission to find a creature in the area (or in the case of a critical success or failure...an unexpected surprise). Whereas scanarea checks for already existing mobs in the area, /track can be used even if a Veermok lair (or whatever creature you want to find) isn't nearby.
Advanced Trapping
Rangers are getting a whole new trapping system. Instead of throwing their traps at a target like Scouts, Rangers will deploy their traps on the ground. Each trap will have a different kind of effect. Here are some examples:
Heavy Claw Trap - In order to use this trap, you'll need to draw a creature across it. When the creature draws near enough, the heavy claw trap snaps shut, rooting the creature. The stronger the creature, the more likely it will eventually work itself free.
Lure - A lure can be filled with meat or greens to attract nearby creatures. A creature who detects a lure might break off from its packmates to inspect it.
Tripwire - The tripwire trap can be laid against NPCs as well as creatures. A target who runs across the tripwire will be knocked on his back for a short time.
These unique traps should increase the Ranger's effectiveness soloing and in groups.
When Do We Get It
I hope to have the implementation of these new features wrapped up soon, but since the Ranger is getting a lot of new functionality to make up for a weak initial skill set, it may take a bit longer to get these features to you. The new traps and wayfaring changes are very close to being ready to go, with the tracking and camps to follow some time after.
Most of the other concerns in the Ranger correspondent report are covered in the Scout response, so go check that out. The key thing for Rangers is the new functionality that should make them a more unique and interesting profession.
-Raph Koster
Chief Creative Officer,
Sony Online Entertainment
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I'd say if we compare the B/S in this post with what they actually have done in the last 8 months it's a pretty compelling arguement
Skev,
Thanks for posting that. That is EXACTLY what I was looking for but I couldn't find it.
Calc: Take that to Thunderheart and Co. pass around multiple copies while they're sitting around drinking their coffee and laughing at us, and see what they have to say. THIS is why we should be ahead of the uber Jedi, the JUNK DEALERS, the Image Designers that have such a critical impact on the economy and the GCW, and any other profession they decide to put in front of us.
Just a friendly reminder to all of us, that according to the time table presented to us, we won't see any attention until at LEAST August. Does anyone remember what else is scheduled for this summer? Yes kids that's right....the Space Expansion. Think we're getting any attention after that comes out? I think not.
Regards,
I secondly thank you Skev for digging that post from last August, It is exactly what I am talking about and why I am so steamed, I have been waiting and hoping for that more than whatever happens with the "outdoorsman" proposal.
Fiahow Imai
Guys, the August post is still floated at the top of the page... how could yo umiss it? 
As for clear argument... a lot of what the Devs try to do to balance things is look at every possibility of the effect a change has on the game overall. While an increase in harvesting mod may be easy to implement, it could have a negative effect that we didn't see ahead of time. Perhaps we should come up with a post, going through the major craftables that use organics, and show, in detail, how a harvesting increase will effect the prices we sell organics at, and in turn the prices that crafted items would start selling at. The Devs know the ecomony is borked to all hell, and we must show them that a harvesting increase will help, and make a big difference.
I was a master from August until February. I made the final push because of the promised updates that were announced way back when Mineras was the correspondant (He was the first). I dabbled in everything else but I was a Master Ranger. Then, I slowly started dropping ranger skill trees until I'm left now with just harvesting. As correspondents go, we have had THE VERY BEST. (Mineras, Delta(temp 
), NRaas, and now Calculus) But, we still haven't had any worthwhile changes since the trees were updated (poorly) in August. This is just ri-di-cu-lous. If it's taking that long, they need to HIRE MORE DEVS. Many, many other professions have serious issues as well without any help in sight. They need to HIRE MORE DEVS. Ifthey do not affect faster, quality change in this game,they will have even less revenue to pay for devs. So, they should take the hit now on dev costs, or they'll be too far down the spiraling vortex of cancelled accounts that it will be too late.
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Obedaia Jetletter
Fixer, Slicer, Rogue, Hunt Master, Dead Eye
Citizen of Consortia
Wanderhome
TH also told me that while we are not slated for any work prior to publish 10 (from JustG's letter), if we want to affect a change we need to go to him with a clear arguement as to why something neweds a change (wich we are doing in the Oye...Harvesting Again thread). If we can convince him of the need (andI warn you, he is hard...he has almost made me cry twice) he will work on getting the change implemented. We need to be positive that was have covered every aspect of the idea/change thoroughly.
We've already done this. Several times. Every discussion, arguments, debate, whatever has been a means of espousing, defining, and refining changes that are desperatly needed by this profession. If TH and the Devs haven't seen the necessity yet to implement the changes, then
- They either don't see that we need changing.
Maybe each Profession should have a development GM assigned to it. There isn't a single profession that doesn't have an unfinished feel to it. - Have no intention of making those changes for whatever reason (too unbalancing, not techically feasible, etc)
Hey that's fine, just tell us so we can get over it and move on top something else instead of allowing us to spin our collective wheels on somethng that will never happen. - We're not presenting our argments properly.
in which case THneeds to tell us what it's going to take to get him to start championing stuff on our behalf;do we need to submit a design proposal? a flow chart? what do you want to see TH?
I'll be honest, since I started playing, I've been keeping a mental list of pros and cons in this game. I have "stacks"; TheFun stack, and the BS stack.
The BS stack has been larger than theFun stack for a while now. This got added to it.
The arrogance of the Development staff, including TH and the rest of SOE, is the largest item in the stack. This may be SOE's product, but this is MY game. This is MY entertainment. I can and will go elswhere with my money. I wish I could run my company this way. I suppose when you're making a few million a month you can afford to be arrogant and dismissive of customer requests.
We've made our arguments. Read the SoTP and theOutdoorsman Proposal. If those aren't "good enough" then TH need to tell us what it's going to take., or at the very least tell why our arguments aren't "good enough".
Maybe it's just me but, it makes more sense to update EVERY proffesion a little at the same time, rather thanpissing of customers by making them wait, REPEATEDLY, for corrections to product deficiencies that should have been corrected before product release.
In fact, the way updates occur currently flys in the face of everything I've ever heard about improvements to game functions. Arguments that x skill can't be updated yetbecause it would break y function for z profession. But yet, that's how updates occur. Look at comat for example. It's been unbalanced for a while now, and will be for a whle to come.Frankly, that argument doesn't wash anymore.
What it looks like to me, is we're dealing with a seriously flawed product, and the SOE plan to deal with it is by"trickle releasing" updates in the hope that people will keep using the product longer. Reminds me of the theory behind slot machines. Pavlovian theory, conditioned response and all that.
Ever hear of the behavioral studies done on Rats?
It basically involved rats pushing a button for a, usually, cocaine-laced treat.
The studies have shown that Rats will stop pushing the button if there is never a payoff.
They will also stop pushing the button if there is always a payoff.
Make the payoff an occasional/random thing, and the rat will push the button to the exclusion of all else, including normal food, sleep, and sex.
Sound familiar to anyone?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm tired of paying to be treated like a lab rat.