Ranger Archive
Thread: Any update on a fix for Harvest Droids?
Oculus
Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:05 am
#27
JBMat wrote:Ok, I am confused.The droids are not broken, they are working as intended. There is nothing to "fix". The "fix" requested months ago has actually caused the situation today.Y'all can sit here and ask for a "new fix" to "unfix" the old "fix". That may or may not happen soon. I would tend to think later than sooner with the stuff about to happen game wide. This is an isolated problem caused by the profession it is affecting.I am going to say that again, in slightly different terms.This is an isolated problem, affecting only a portion of two professions, and those two professions wanted the change that is now adversely affecting them. I am not sure, but is that poetic justice?This situation is analagous to the BHs dropping most of Scout. They have no trap line anymore. Their arguments for mantraps went right into the toilet once they got what they wished for.Playstyles can be adapted to fit new circumstances. Adapt, improvise and overcome. No one playstyle is set in stone - learn to do something else, figure out work arounds, do something.And yes, I am still laughing as the harvest droids are now more useless than ever. No, that's not right, they never were useful, just sorta handy.Cold hard facts -JB
This has nothing to do with the "old fix" in terms of gameplay.
Yes, the old code is causing this but back then the "fix" was called for because a droid, unlike another PC does not give extra harvest. The penalty was introduced because every group member was allowed to harvest. Thus a reduction in yield when grouped was introduced.
Excluding droids and pets was the right way to go. They do not harvest, thus a penalty isn't required.
The new changes however, encourage you to group with other players, if you do so, you get a harvesting bonus. However even if you use your droid to harvest in a group, you are still grouping with other players and shouldn't, once again, be penalized if you want to use your droid. It was, afterall, introduced as a tool.
The "old" fix was put in based on the viewpoint that players shouldn't be penalized for using a droid. For this new system to be in line with the "old" changes, they should once again not penalize players for using a droid. You see, the way it is now is actually the opposite of the "old" fix
I'll would accept that the grouping bonus shouldn't be added on top of your droid-modified +harvest skill mod, but I don't trust the Devs with such a complicated task.
Oku Kee'lus
JodoKai
Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:17 am
#28
JascoSmlee wrote:
I still believe the problems with droid bonusesis more an oversight than a bug. I don't believe its working as intended though, no matter what you say JB.Harvest droids are currently pretty useless, I don't see how this could have been the Dev's intention?
I've been a DE for a long time, I wholeheartedly believe Dev's hate us, so this absolutely could have been thier intention.
Almagill
Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:33 am
#29
In addition to what Paks reported above, I'd say that an old nerf has become a new bug due to the current changes in harvesting. Whether JB thinks it's right or not (because people 6 months or more ago asked for something) is neither here nor there.
It is now 'broke'. It does need fixed. And I owe some poor so and so on the in_testing an apology for slapping them down with a 'It's working as intended' response.
It's going to be one of those days.
It is now 'broke'. It does need fixed. And I owe some poor so and so on the in_testing an apology for slapping them down with a 'It's working as intended' response.
It's going to be one of those days.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:04 am
#30
Puck_Starfire wrote:
I feel these droids weren't ever meant to be used by Rangers anyway. They help Scouts out the most, and by time you get to Master Ranger, the droids are useless. Do I use one? Nope, and I haven't since Novice Ranger. And why should I bother? I get ONE, yes ONE, extra yield per harvest, no matter what I harvest. Personally, I don't think a trash can that chirps should be better than me. I don't need one.
JB is right though, you guys did call for the nerf. I do remember that. The old saying "be careful what you wish for" is very true here. Just don't use the droid. If you're a Master Ranger, the droid is more of a nuisance than a help anyway.
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Maybe your droid is only a 101 droid, yes then it might be not that much. Trye a 106 or higher for a change. Adding 5-20 units EACH time, depending on base yield value (well it was before the groupng bonus was applied or still is when you solo). So especially with AVIAN meat (normally 23 drops for me, my droid gets me 32!!! Very worth the effort it is!)
DaveG
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:27 am
#31
JBMat wrote:
Ok, I am confused.
The droids are not broken, they are working as intended. There is nothing to "fix". The "fix" requested months ago has actually caused the situation today.
Y'all can sit here and ask for a "new fix" to "unfix" the old "fix". That may or may not happen soon. I would tend to think later than sooner with the stuff about to happen game wide. This is an isolated problem caused by the profession it is affecting.
I am going to say that again, in slightly different terms.
This is an isolated problem, affecting only a portion of two professions,and those two professionswanted the change that is now adversely affecting them. I am not sure, but is that poetic justice?
This situation is analagous to the BHs dropping most of Scout. They have no trap line anymore. Their arguments for mantraps went right into the toilet once they got what they wished for.
Playstyles can be adapted to fit new circumstances. Adapt, improvise and overcome. No one playstyle is set in stone -learn to do something else, figure out work arounds, do something.
And yes, I am still laughing as the harvest droids are now more useless than ever.No, that's not right, they never were useful, just sorta handy.
Cold hard facts -
JB
How can you sit there and say all that?
The "old fix" as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, was to stop combat droids helping people access higher level missions from mission terminals. This had nothing to do with harvesting droids because harvesting modules are not combat modules and thus would not help someone exploit the mission terminals. Furthermore, harvesting is not a combat function, so why should that "old-fix", which is combat related, impact on creature harvesting at all?
Yes playstyles can be adapted, and they are being adapted (for example, I've just got myself an autorepair R3 droid to use while I'm grouped, rather than my harvesting droid, but I've also just bought a new harvesting droid aswell for when I'm solo). However, *just* adapting does rather smack of "making do", which isn't really good enough. That's rather like getting your car fixed, they don't quite have the right parts in, so thatyou caronly has half the breaking power that is should have, but the mechanics tell you to "adapt your driving style".
JascoSmlee
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:31 am
#32
I've said it before, but even completely disregarding the bonus anyway, my droid used to be very useful indeed even though it only harvested 1 more unit than me. The fact was that it saved me having to run up to kills to harvest all the time - which is a big pain in the posterior for a lot of Rifle folk. As it stands now he does harvest less than me so I have had to resort to running around like a headlessRambo nuna to kill and harvest, instead of the sneaky, sniper I used to be.
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
Puck_Starfire wrote:
I feel these droids weren't ever meant to be used by Rangers anyway. They help Scouts out the most, and by time you get to Master Ranger, the droids are useless. Do I use one? Nope, and I haven't since Novice Ranger. And why should I bother? I get ONE, yes ONE, extra yield per harvest, no matter what I harvest. Personally, I don't think a trash can that chirps should be better than me. I don't need one.
JB is right though, you guys did call for the nerf. I do remember that. The old saying "be careful what you wish for" is very true here. Just don't use the droid. If you're a Master Ranger, the droid is more of a nuisance than a help anyway.
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Maybe your droid is only a 101 droid, yes then it might be not that much. Trye a 106 or higher for a change. Adding 5-20 units EACH time, depending on base yield value (well it was before the groupng bonus was applied or still is when you solo). So especially with AVIAN meat (normally 23 drops for me, my droid gets me 32!!! Very worth the effort it is!)
JokitoRoyo
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:33 am
#33
Owen-Lars wrote:
As for the response you got.... heh.... its JB, what did you expect?
JokitoRoyo
Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:38 am
#34
JBMat wrote:
What I am saying is simple.
Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.
Agreed, but for me I use the droid to pull in harvest when I can't break combat. Nothing is worse than hunting in the krayt boom and not being able to break combat long enough to harvest and watching 1k+ units go bye bye. So right now, I'll use the droid for a harvest hit, that's better than 0. I don't see how that is NOT usefull.
Message Edited by JokitoRoyo on 03-21-2005 10:41 AM
Puck_Starfire
Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:41 am
#35
True Jokito, that's the ONLY thing I use mine for. For those times when I can't get to the corpse myself.
As far as numbers, here's numbers ran at various levels. I used Quenkers and harvested hides and here's what I got:
Master Scout: 39 units
Novice Ranger: 34 units (a bug maybe?)
Ranger w/ Tracking 4: 66 units
Master Ranger: 113
Master Ranger with Droid: 117 (okay...4 more units, whoopie)
Master Ranger w/ Veghash: 126
Master Ranger w/ Veghash and Droid: 127 (one more, really big whoopie)
Now you can sit there and say what YOU harvest, but my stuff is top-notch first, and I've been a Ranger longer than most, having 5 Rangers under my belt. And I have more people come to me for advice than not. But, those are my numbers. And I like numbers.
As far as numbers, here's numbers ran at various levels. I used Quenkers and harvested hides and here's what I got:
Master Scout: 39 units
Novice Ranger: 34 units (a bug maybe?)
Ranger w/ Tracking 4: 66 units
Master Ranger: 113
Master Ranger with Droid: 117 (okay...4 more units, whoopie)
Master Ranger w/ Veghash: 126
Master Ranger w/ Veghash and Droid: 127 (one more, really big whoopie)
Now you can sit there and say what YOU harvest, but my stuff is top-notch first, and I've been a Ranger longer than most, having 5 Rangers under my belt. And I have more people come to me for advice than not. But, those are my numbers. And I like numbers.
GoldMemberBria
Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:02 pm
#36
That's just a rediculous thing to say. People want one thing, and one thing only: for a harvesting droid to be useful in... harvesting. That's it. That's the whole story. And if the harvesting subsystems change, or the combat subsystems change, they expect it to... *gasp*... stay useful. Why is that so much to ask? And who exactly are you representing with this rant anyhow JB? Certainly not your community right?
JBMat wrote:
And who was that unmasked man who said harvest droids suck??
1.Droids will not ever never ever count as part of a group for harvesting. Y'all - the ubiquitous y'all - made sure of that when the group nerf hit. People whined and snivled and got droids to not count as a group member for purposes of harvesting. As such, they can't use the group bonuses because they can't "see" the group bonuses, as they are "invisible" to the group bonuses much as they were "invisible" to the group harvesting nerf.The coding has been removed at "y'all's" request. Maybe this can be addressed during the revamp. I don't think it should be, as it is a result of the "masses" stupidity, but hey, the "y'all" can hope.
Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 03-21-2005 01:04 PM
CNevyn
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:55 pm
#37
There is obviously a problem that needs to be examined. Bickering endlessly is pointless. Request the Devs examine the issue, determine if it's working as intended, or as has been suggested, something's been overlooked. A viewpoint I wholly agree with.
Blathering "this is what you get" is childish, and a waste of time. I certainly didn't request this. I also didn't ask to be forced into another playstyle.
Stop blameing and fix the problem.
JBMat
Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:19 am
#38
There is no fix required as there is no problem with the harvest droids. It is that simple.
Having said that, to the minority of Rangers who think they have been shorted out of harvest by the recent changes, I say this - You have lost nothing. However, you have gained nothing either. You are at status quo, regardless of any changes. If you change and adapt, you will gain harvest. If you remain static you do not benefit from the changes. This is your choice, your action or inactionaffects your harvest.
Having said that, to the minority of Rangers who think they have been shorted out of harvest by the recent changes, I say this - You have lost nothing. However, you have gained nothing either. You are at status quo, regardless of any changes. If you change and adapt, you will gain harvest. If you remain static you do not benefit from the changes. This is your choice, your action or inactionaffects your harvest.
The droids are working as intended, as programmed, and as asked for by the majority of the Scout/Ranger profession who campaigned for the change making pets/droids unaffected by the harvesting nerf.
The fact that harvestor droids don't work as well as some people think they should is not a cause for concern. I would direct these people to the posts of over a year ago, when pets caused a 40% reduction in harvesting. The fix was making pets, and under the same auspices, droids, immune from the grouping nerf. The next line is important, so it gets set out by itself. Read it twice.
Being immune from the nerf also made them immune to the new changes.
The droids are continuing to work exactly the same as they have before the new changes. No higher, no lower. Same harvest, unaffected by any grouping rules, just like people wanted, asked for, lobbied for, screamed for and got implemented.
Sorry, I am all done with this topic.The droids work fine, just like the majority asked for. There is nothing to fix, as nothing is broken.
JB
Almagill
Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:27 am
#39
On a more constructive note, those who feel that there IS a problem with droids, as they are currently used, could do worse than collect stats on how they now behave in use by Scouts and Rangers of different levels, then, if they can identify a problem, they should be able to ask for the Devs to look at the issue again.
While it can't be argued that, some time ago, a number of scout/rangers asked for a change to droid behaviours in groups, things change.
What wasn't a problem "then" is now perceived as being an issue by members of the scout/ranger community, and as it affects their ability to sell harvester droids, it also affects the DE community.
Droids should not count as members of the group for the purposes of boosting mission levels or payouts. This prevents the use of droids to pull higher level missions than you would be able to without the droid.
Droids should not count as members of the group in order to qualify for the new grouped bonus. This prevents any chance of using the droid to exploit higher harvest rates than you'd be entitled to without it as your group buddy.
Droids should have their harvest rates based on your current harvest level, including modifiers. The droid is harvesting for you, by proxy, why shouldn't it's harvest amount be affected by your current harvest levels?
Droid harvest levels should continue to be affected by their rating, so buy a below par droid, get a below par harvest. This encourages the DE to build for quality.
Be focused, be clear and remember to avoid flaming and arguing amongst yourselves over the 'finer points'.
Remember that your correspondents are there to reflect the views of the community to the Dev's.
"Be careful what you wish for, you might get it"
While it can't be argued that, some time ago, a number of scout/rangers asked for a change to droid behaviours in groups, things change.
What wasn't a problem "then" is now perceived as being an issue by members of the scout/ranger community, and as it affects their ability to sell harvester droids, it also affects the DE community.
Droids should not count as members of the group for the purposes of boosting mission levels or payouts. This prevents the use of droids to pull higher level missions than you would be able to without the droid.
Droids should not count as members of the group in order to qualify for the new grouped bonus. This prevents any chance of using the droid to exploit higher harvest rates than you'd be entitled to without it as your group buddy.
Droids should have their harvest rates based on your current harvest level, including modifiers. The droid is harvesting for you, by proxy, why shouldn't it's harvest amount be affected by your current harvest levels?
Droid harvest levels should continue to be affected by their rating, so buy a below par droid, get a below par harvest. This encourages the DE to build for quality.
Be focused, be clear and remember to avoid flaming and arguing amongst yourselves over the 'finer points'.
Remember that your correspondents are there to reflect the views of the community to the Dev's.
"Be careful what you wish for, you might get it"