Ranger Archive
Thread: Any update on a fix for Harvest Droids?
Fodder650
Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:06 pm
#14
Almagill it wasnt changed because of droids it was changed because of pets. Remember back then we used pets.
JBMat
Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:40 pm
#15
Saki -
It was not rudeness. If you took it as such, I apologize. No personal attack was aimed at you, but sorta kinda at all the people who were for the change way back when.
It was gloating, pure plain and simple. Tongue in cheek to be sure, but gloating none the less.
Way back when the group nerf to harvesting hit, I think I was the only one to say that droids and pets should be included. My line was solo = one, more than one = group. I got my azz handed to me in several chunks many times. I said then that this wouldcome back to haunt us further on down the road. Granted, I am not a programmer, I don't live on warm pepsi and cold pizza, but I do know the basic mechanics of programming ( an ill spent youth I guess). I thought that making the pets/droids non applicable to grouping for harvesting would hurt us later on.
Remember, only harvesting was affected - group with a pet or droid and your mission levels would go up and down depending on your weapon status. Group with a pet or droid and you got more XP for being in a group. This leads me to believe that in one line someplace in the zillions of lines of code for this game, there is a command that more or less says "if a pet or droid is grouped harvesting is not affected". That one line is screwing up the bonus right now - I would bet the family fortune on it (currently $1.88 US - I got paid last week).
Again, not a personal attack - sorry if you thought it was.
JB
Gilamu
Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:17 pm
#16
Today I noticed I actually harvested worse with my droid (I'm a Master Ranger, my droid is +114). With my droid, I got 41 units of meat from a regular huurton. Without it, I got 58 units.
What the heck's up with that?
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:31 am
#17
It happens, yes! That's why, I harvest manually, with vegash, when grouped with another MR/Scout or anyone.
As long as you're solo-ing (how can be using pets and a droid be named soloing :smileysurprised
the droid will give an additional bonus. Not much, but it adds.
the droid will give an additional bonus. Not much, but it adds.In a group with anything else but pets/droids, as JB said, it will not work anymore. The droid will harvest less at all times.
To those who say it's convenient: i agree, but only as long as you're not grouped. That's the time I use my harvester droid (109 still :smileymad.
.In all other cases, I've got my fighter/trap droid out, 2 pets and kill as quickly as possible, and keep running from one corpse to another.... 
Ah well, I feel more sorry for the DEs who yet got another stomp down on their droid usability than us rangers (it's great to get a bonus, but the whole problem still remains... and i'm not going to start the discussion yet again).
DesktopSaki
Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:27 am
#18
Gilamu wrote:
Today I noticed I actually harvested worse with my droid (I'm a Master Ranger, my droid is +114). With my droid, I got 41 units of meat from a regular huurton. Without it, I got 58 units.
What the heck's up with that?
Were you grouped, maybe? Since they ignore the group bonus, they'd be harvesting based on your base harvesting skill (ie the droid always assumes you are solo).
Oculus
Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:53 am
#19
JBMat wrote:Saki -It was not rudeness. If you took it as such, I apologize. No personal attack was aimed at you, but sorta kinda at all the people who were for the change way back when.It was gloating, pure plain and simple. Tongue in cheek to be sure, but gloating none the less.Way back when the group nerf to harvesting hit, I think I was the only one to say that droids and pets should be included. My line was solo = one, more than one = group. I got my azz handed to me in several chunks many times. I said then that this would come back to haunt us further on down the road. Granted, I am not a programmer, I don't live on warm pepsi and cold pizza, but I do know the basic mechanics of programming ( an ill spent youth I guess). I thought that making the pets/droids non applicable to grouping for harvesting would hurt us later on.Remember, only harvesting was affected - group with a pet or droid and your mission levels would go up and down depending on your weapon status. Group with a pet or droid and you got more XP for being in a group. This leads me to believe that in one line someplace in the zillions of lines of code for this game, there is a command that more or less says "if a pet or droid is grouped harvesting is not affected". That one line is screwing up the bonus right now - I would bet the family fortune on it (currently $1.88 US - I got paid last week).Again, not a personal attack - sorry if you thought it was.JB
We're not asking for a change that will count our droids or pets as group members, so we can get the grouping bonus when we're "solo".
We want to get the grouping bonus when we're actually grouped with other players but use our droid to harvest. Currently we only get the bonus in a group when we harvest by hand. Which is obviously a bug.
A change in gameplay mechanics shouldn't come back and bite us in the ass this way. We can't honestly be expected to consider the fact that the Dev team can't code their own game properly when we ask for changes.
Very simply put, all they need is to add an "if" line to the code that does a check to see if there are other PCs in the group and skip the current "droid grouped == no bonus" code if there is.
Oku Kee'lus
JBMat
Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:26 pm
#21
What I am saying is simple.
For the purposes of harvesting, be you grouped with only a pet/droid or with a Player and a pet/droid, the pet/droid is 'invisible" to the harvesting bonuses because it was "invisible" to the harvesting nerf.
Do I personally think you should get more with a droid/pet - No. Will I fight a change - No, not worth the hassle. Will I propose a change - No, but I did report this first as a possible bug. Do I think it is a bug - Nope, the programming is working as designed, the pets and droids are not being affected one way or the other by your group status.
This all started way way way back, just about the time I mastered in fact. They had a rather large patch come out, and along with the nerf in harvesting was a nerf in points for survival (80k to 60k). No droids, just pets. But at the time, pets nerfed your harvest and people were screaming that being grouped with a pet shouldn't count. I opposed the change, probably a minority of me, but I do recall some support. The masses won and pets and droids no longer affected harvesting.
Now, the exact change that the vast majority requested is biting droid users in the butt.Asking for the Devs to change the programming back to the way it was seems like a "do-over" to me.
There is a simple solution. Scrap the droids, eat veghash, group with other Masters or Rangers and harvest manually using a simple macro. I got 6k of bone at 40cpu in less than 40 minutes the other day, no missions, and never left 800m from my PA hall. And I was grouped with a non-Ranger (tho she is a great Smuggler whose slices are generally fantastic) and I wasn't even using veghash most of the time.
JB
Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:55 pm
#22
JBMat wrote:
What I am saying is simple.
There is a simple solution. Scrap the droids, eat veghash, group with other Masters or Rangers and harvest manually using a simple macro. I got 6k of bone at 40cpu in less than 40 minutes the other day, no missions, and never left 800m from my PA hall. And I was grouped with a non-Ranger (tho she is a great Smuggler whose slices are generally fantastic) and I wasn't even using veghash most of the time.
That's just fine, but it is YOUR playstyle. Mine differs, as there are many more that do the same too.
Facts(s):
1. Before patch, the droid added it's bonus to your own, yielding a bit more. The extra (relative) yield for both an MScout and MRanger is around the same amount.
2. It worked wether grouped or not (as in grouped with other players, grouped with droid only, not grouped with droid).
Current facts:
1. After patch, the droid occasionaly adds a bonus to your own. The droid it seems gives relative higher yield for anyone lower then a MRanger... A Master Scout with a 109 droid will yield relative more then a Master Ranger with a 109 droid. How come? My answer: the +50 increase for MRanger harvesting messes up things.
2. It doesnt add the bonus when grouped with other players. If grouped with the droid or not at all, the above fact #1 counts.
Now computer program technically, this tells me the DROID harvesting routinesIs not taking into account the Creature Harvest Level of his owner and using it's own formula which differs from the PC harvesting formula.
To correct this, there should be only 1 formula used for harvesting that takes into account:
* creature harvest bonus of PC
* [addition food/drink bonus]
* [additional group bonus]
* [the droid bonus]
Then this harvest function should be used wether you're harvesting manually, sending a droid out, or heaven forbid, ask the Force to do the harvesting....(point is: no matter HOW it's done, the yield should be consistent. This is NOT the case).
Oculus
Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:34 pm
#23
JBMat wrote:What I am saying is simple.For the purposes of harvesting, be you grouped with only a pet/droid or with a Player and a pet/droid, the pet/droid is 'invisible" to the harvesting bonuses because it was "invisible" to the harvesting nerf.Do I personally think you should get more with a droid/pet - No. Will I fight a change - No, not worth the hassle. Will I propose a change - No, but I did report this first as a possible bug. Do I think it is a bug - Nope, the programming is working as designed, the pets and droids are not being affected one way or the other by your group status.This all started way way way back, just about the time I mastered in fact. They had a rather large patch come out, and along with the nerf in harvesting was a nerf in points for survival (80k to 60k). No droids, just pets. But at the time, pets nerfed your harvest and people were screaming that being grouped with a pet shouldn't count. I opposed the change, probably a minority of me, but I do recall some support. The masses won and pets and droids no longer affected harvesting.Now, the exact change that the vast majority requested is biting droid users in the butt. Asking for the Devs to change the programming back to the way it was seems like a "do-over" to me.There is a simple solution. Scrap the droids, eat veghash, group with other Masters or Rangers and harvest manually using a simple macro. I got 6k of bone at 40cpu in less than 40 minutes the other day, no missions, and never left 800m from my PA hall. And I was grouped with a non-Ranger (tho she is a great Smuggler whose slices are generally fantastic) and I wasn't even using veghash most of the time.JBBe careful what you wish for, you may get it.
The harvestdroids have always been there to increase your harvest.
The fact that the bonus is disregarded in PC groups only has to with the coding that was introduced. It is however a bug JB. Caused by lazy coding.
We are encouraged to group and get harvest bonus. Because the grouping bonus is a % increase and not +skill modifier the droid harvest +skill mod is not applied.
I can tell you're biased in regards to this but as a Correspondent I'd expect you to be a bit more objective in regards to this matter. Allthough I realize you've reported it
If you can get a statement from the DEvs saying that yes, it is indeed WAD that using harvest droids when grouped with other players should yield less harvest then doing it by hand, then fine, but until then it's a bug and should be treated that way.
Puck_Starfire
Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:15 am
#24
I feel these droids weren't ever meant to be used by Rangers anyway. They help Scouts out the most, and by time you get to Master Ranger, the droids are useless. Do I use one? Nope, and I haven't since Novice Ranger. And why should I bother? I get ONE, yes ONE, extra yield per harvest, no matter what I harvest. Personally, I don't think a trash can that chirps should be better than me. I don't need one.
JB is right though, you guys did call for the nerf. I do remember that. The old saying "be careful what you wish for" is very true here. Just don't use the droid. If you're a Master Ranger, the droid is more of a nuisance than a help anyway.
JB is right though, you guys did call for the nerf. I do remember that. The old saying "be careful what you wish for" is very true here. Just don't use the droid. If you're a Master Ranger, the droid is more of a nuisance than a help anyway.
JBMat
Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:51 am
#25
Ok, I am confused.
The droids are not broken, they are working as intended. There is nothing to "fix". The "fix" requested months ago has actually caused the situation today.
Y'all can sit here and ask for a "new fix" to "unfix" the old "fix". That may or may not happen soon. I would tend to think later than sooner with the stuff about to happen game wide. This is an isolated problem caused by the profession it is affecting.
I am going to say that again, in slightly different terms.
This is an isolated problem, affecting only a portion of two professions,and those two professionswanted the change that is now adversely affecting them. I am not sure, but is that poetic justice?
This situation is analagous to the BHs dropping most of Scout. They have no trap line anymore. Their arguments for mantraps went right into the toilet once they got what they wished for.
Playstyles can be adapted to fit new circumstances. Adapt, improvise and overcome. No one playstyle is set in stone -learn to do something else, figure out work arounds, do something.
And yes, I am still laughing as the harvest droids are now more useless than ever.No, that's not right, they never were useful, just sorta handy.
Cold hard facts -
JB
JascoSmlee
Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:31 am
#26
I still believe the problems with droid bonusesis more an oversight than a bug. I don't believe its working as intended though, no matter what you say JB. 
Harvest droids are currently pretty useless, I don't see how this could have been the Dev's intention?
Harvest droids are currently pretty useless, I don't see how this could have been the Dev's intention?