Ranger Archive

I would say a combination of 2 and 3. I think alot of people forget we incorperate both crafting and combat in our proffession. We ough to be able to experiement on the efficencey our traps work, how much they stick or do damage or how long the damage lasts for, however we should also be able to use traps more efficently than a scout with our level increase.

Though in an off the topic thing I'd like to see disease and posion return in critters only because it would stop them eating my rides and making them unuseable....

JB, I'm starting to think you havne't got your finger on the actual problem here. People are not complaining about trapping b/c it's hard - like camping was. Camping was the exact same difficulty level no matter when or how you started gaining xp.

With trapping, if your CL is dispreportionately high compared to your trapping skill, you will ONLY be able to land traps on grey con creatures that grant 1 xp. You CANNOT land any traps on a colour con creature that would grant you reasonable xp.

Therefore, the problem is that if you start levelling trapping xp with a high CL, you can ONLY get 1 xp per trap. This does not make people dumb because they want to switch INTO ranger/scout. It means the current system is preventing them from switching into the profession which is wrong and needs to be fixed.


Owen...

I don't think the idea of having trapping xp being scout xp is all that bad actually. It does solve the problem and doesn't really alter how traps work. Although you COULD become a master ranger without ever using a trap, I'd be willing to accept that to get around the problem. Let's be serious, you don't have to use /rescue or /maskscent or /conceal to master ranger do you? This, to me, seems to be the simplest and most effective way of getting around the problem. Maybe not ideal, but it does the job and doesn't risk breaking anything.

The solution I suggested was to make trapping give a certain amount of xp dependent on the creature's CL, and independent of character CL. So your CL would have no effect whatsoever on the amount of trapping xp you get. Low CL creatures would give enough xp to level the low level trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time, and high CL creatures would give enough xp to level the higher trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time.

The creatures you are allowed to trap would be gated by the trapping mod, as it is now. Meaning that no one would be able to, as a low level trapper, throw a trap on a high CL creature and get tons of trapping xp to power-level the boxes.

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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Almagill wrote:
JB wrote:
"I think Calc wrote it was wrong to penalize a person coming into the profession with a high CL. Why is that? Works the same for all combat classes, and we are a combat class and traps are our weapons. If I maintain Ranger and drop all of BH to go master another weapons class, I am gonna be limited to a lot of 1 xp creatures until I get good enough to kill anything of consequence. Takng this into consideration, it is exactly as it is with traps at this time. My choices are suck it up and kill 1 xp stuff or drop some Ranger and get more xp per kill. Choices are the name of the game."

If you wanted to master another combat profession and chose to drop ALL of BH and keep all of Ranger then you'd deserve to be stuck kicking the crud out of CL44 beasties for 1xp a time. Enjoy the cloner trips when they chew you a new seating arrangement too.

If, otoh, you wanted to get into, say, brawler. You could stay at a high level in ranged class, weaken the creature until it was sufficently weak to finish off with unarmed, and get a bit more than 1XP per kill. You'd also still benefit from the (limited but far more than youd' have as a novice brawler) melee defences if you were converting down from the right ranged prof.

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This is not true.

IF you are CL80, say like MR/MPistol and drop MPistol to get TKM for example, you will still be able to level fast. Get in a CL80 group (group dmg/accuracy/mitigation adjustments) and go out kill bolls!!!

You will only need a hit registered to get the xp. And as you progress in brawler/tkm, yuor CL will rise and you will get even more xp per registered hit.

For trapping the issue is that this particular system is not going to work.

This applies to both new and OLD characters.

Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 06-26-2005 09:45 AM

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pssst, you're arguing the same side of the fight as me. Was pointing out, possibly unclearly, that you can do stuff like this if you're a CL80 combat converting to another combat style but not if you're trying to do trapping.

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Almagill wrote:

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

This is not true.

IF you are CL80, say like MR/MPistol and drop MPistol to get TKM for example, you will still be able to level fast. Get in a CL80 group (group dmg/accuracy/mitigation adjustments) and go out kill bolls!!!

You will only need a hit registered to get the xp. And as you progress in brawler/tkm, yuor CL will rise and you will get even more xp per registered hit.

For trapping the issue is that this particular system is not going to work.

This applies to both new and OLD characters.

Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 06-26-2005 09:45 AM

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pssst, you're arguing the same side of the fight as me. Was pointing out, possibly unclearly, that you can do stuff like this if you're a CL80 combat converting to another combat style but not if you're trying to do trapping.

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Oops... Then it was not clear to me

/crawls back into the wilderness

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Vorpaks wrote:
The solution I suggested was to make trapping give a certain amount of xp dependent on the creature's CL, and independent of character CL. So your CL would have no effect whatsoever on the amount of trapping xp you get. Low CL creatures would give enough xp to level the low level trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time, and high CL creatures would give enough xp to level the higher trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time.

The creatures you are allowed to trap would be gated by the trapping mod, as it is now. Meaning that no one would be able to, as a low level trapper, throw a trap on a high CL creature and get tons of trapping xp to power-level the boxes.

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What if they went back to giving trap XP on a per trap, as it hits, basis, rather than having to wait till you get the kill?

Yeah, yeah, it can be abused by somebody tanking and another player unloading a crate of traps on the beasties head, but unlike some PvP sploits that's pretty much small beer and could be got round by giving each creature type a maximum level of trap XP in the same way theres a max level of weapon XP that can be squeeed out of a carcase (dependant on player CL etc etc etc)

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Almagill wrote:

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Vorpaks wrote:
The solution I suggested was to make trapping give a certain amount of xp dependent on the creature's CL, and independent of character CL. So your CL would have no effect whatsoever on the amount of trapping xp you get. Low CL creatures would give enough xp to level the low level trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time, and high CL creatures would give enough xp to level the higher trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time.

The creatures you are allowed to trap would be gated by the trapping mod, as it is now. Meaning that no one would be able to, as a low level trapper, throw a trap on a high CL creature and get tons of trapping xp to power-level the boxes.

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What if they went back to giving trap XP on a per trap, as it hits, basis, rather than having to wait till you get the kill?

Yeah, yeah, it can be abused by somebody tanking and another player unloading a crate of traps on the beasties head, but unlike some PvP sploits that's pretty much small beer and could be got round by giving each creature type a maximum level of trap XP in the same way theres a max level of weapon XP that can be squeeed out of a carcase (dependant on player CL etc etc etc)

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Are you saying leave the xp how it is and just enable people to keep throwing multiple traps ont he same creature? I still think it would be a PITA tohave to throw 100 traps to get 100xp, even if you were getting the xp on a per hit basis.

Message Edited by Vorpaks on 06-26-2005 10:47 AM

Yeah paks thats another good solution. Do you think the devs would go for allow us to get xp from creatures we can clearly wipe the floor with? I mean, a high cl, low trapping guy will most likely have to trap grey cons for a while to level up and during that time be at no risk what so ever. Im unsure what the devs would think about that, but its certainly a solution.

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Vorpaks wrote:
The solution I suggested was to make trapping give a certain amount of xp dependent on the creature's CL, and independent of character CL. So your CL would have no effect whatsoever on the amount of trapping xp you get. Low CL creatures would give enough xp to level the low level trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time, and high CL creatures would give enough xp to level the higher trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time.

The creatures you are allowed to trap would be gated by the trapping mod, as it is now. Meaning that no one would be able to, as a low level trapper, throw a trap on a high CL creature and get tons of trapping xp to power-level the boxes.

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That gets my vote.

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Vorpaks wrote:

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Almagill wrote:

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Vorpaks wrote:
The solution I suggested was to make trapping give a certain amount of xp dependent on the creature's CL, and independent of character CL. So your CL would have no effect whatsoever on the amount of trapping xp you get. Low CL creatures would give enough xp to level the low level trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time, and high CL creatures would give enough xp to level the higher trapping boxes in a reasonable amount of time.

The creatures you are allowed to trap would be gated by the trapping mod, as it is now. Meaning that no one would be able to, as a low level trapper, throw a trap on a high CL creature and get tons of trapping xp to power-level the boxes.

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What if they went back to giving trap XP on a per trap, as it hits, basis, rather than having to wait till you get the kill?

Yeah, yeah, it can be abused by somebody tanking and another player unloading a crate of traps on the beasties head, but unlike some PvP sploits that's pretty much small beer and could be got round by giving each creature type a maximum level of trap XP in the same way theres a max level of weapon XP that can be squeeed out of a carcase (dependant on player CL etc etc etc)

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Are you saying leave the xp how it is and just enable people to keep throwing multiple traps ont he same creature? I still think it would be a PITA tohave to throw 100 traps to get 100xp, even if you were getting the xp on a per hit basis.

Message Edited by Vorpaks on 06-26-2005 10:47 AM

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Uhm, no... that's not what I was saying, tho I can see how you can read it that way.

I meant granting XP at the sort of level we used to recieve it at, on a per hit basis, rather than lumped together at the end of combat if you manage to get a successful kill. Though of course the problem would then be prising TL from CL and actually letting us get the sort of XP the tree is designed for....

strewth it's a mess, innit.

Oh, and a FYI, I went up one level in ranger today, because I want my maskscent mods back, and, at CL69 I get 1xp for most traps at targets which are CL50 (my current trapping mod) and don't seem to be getting much if anything to stick on creatures with a similar CL to mine.

Of course, if I DID, then I should be raking it in as I'd be trapping nearly 20 levels above my 'official' trapping level, but of course would only get the trap XP calculated on my CL to the creatures CL. So, "working as designed" maybe, but the modifier that dictates what traps stick and the modifier that dictates how much XP is awarded shouldn't be two seperate modifiers that are so easy to get out of balance.

If anyone can point me to any other profession that has a similar imbalance, then I'll accept that somethings not 'bust'.

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Almagill wrote:
JB wrote:
"I think Calc wrote it was wrong to penalize a person coming into the profession with a high CL. Why is that? Works the same for all combat classes, and we are a combat class and traps are our weapons. If I maintain Ranger and drop all of BH to go master another weapons class, I am gonna be limited to a lot of 1 xp creatures until I get good enough to kill anything of consequence. Takng this into consideration, it is exactly as it is with traps at this time. My choices are suck it up and kill 1 xp stuff or drop some Ranger and get more xp per kill. Choices are the name of the game."

If you wanted to master another combat profession and chose to drop ALL of BH and keep all of Ranger then you'd deserve to be stuck kicking the crud out of CL44 beasties for 1xp a time. Enjoy the cloner trips when they chew you a new seating arrangement too.

If, otoh, you wanted to get into, say, brawler. You could stay at a high level in ranged class, weaken the creature until it was sufficently weak to finish off with unarmed, and get a bit more than 1XP per kill. You'd also still benefit from the (limited but far more than youd' have as a novice brawler) melee defences if you were converting down from the right ranged prof.

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This is not true.

IF you are CL80, say like MR/MPistol and drop MPistol to get TKM for example, you will still be able to level fast. Get in a CL80 group (group dmg/accuracy/mitigation adjustments) and go out kill bolls!!!

You will only need a hit registered to get the xp. And as you progress in brawler/tkm, yuor CL will rise and you will get even more xp per registered hit.

For trapping the issue is that this particular system is not going to work.

This applies to both new and OLD characters.

Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 06-26-2005 09:45 AM

The imbalance existed in Beta with all weapons xp (though I am sure I am telling you something you already know ). When you mastered one profession and then tried to master a second profession you could not, because the weapons you were certed for in the novice levels of that second profession were not strong enough to kill creatures at your level - the creatures would regen faster than you could dmage them. So you were stuck killing creatures at a lower level for 1 xp.

The solution was to make weapons level certed rather than skill box certed. I HOPE that they do not do a similar thing with trapping. If you make trapping ability dependent on level, then a level 80 character with novice scout will be able to trap better than a Novice Ranger. True, they will have sucky traps, but it still negates the point of gaining skill boxes and makes spending the points in Ranger trapping even more pointless.