Ranger Archive
Thread: What should happen to trapping?
Option 3 is what I had supported in my recent Revamp thread, and it is what I support now.
BTW, this is BioEngine's alt again. Dangit, the forums won't let me log in on my main account for some reason. Something about not being a member. Seen this before.
Speed modifiers would be new to the trees, but accuracy would essentially come from the trapping modifier itself. Modifying the traps to become thrown weapons, as you have stated, would also open them up to experimentation as such a weapon type. This, I think, would obtain two goals with one modification.
Perhaps not the addition of damage when throwing a trap, but the speed/accuracy should definitely increase.
Also, xp should be based off of your cl vs. the cl of the opponent. You should only get single digits if you are 70-80 trying to trap a 1-10. Anything else is just plain not fair.
I feel that eventually either a. mesh or p-tarts will have to be moved up to ranger. Perhaps keep the A. mesh in scout, but put the p-tart in ranger, since it is (at least sounds) more advanced.
Phenix1050 wrote:although I'm STILL going to try to push the double crossbow idea
Waylander idea phenix
Anyway, moving on to the actual point I wanted to make... I think the issue of trapping experience will be fixed by a change that I read about from the fan fest reports. I can't remember off the top of my head where I read this, but I read that the devs intend to alter the spawning system on each world, so that there are different zones for different CL ranges. Owen, can you verify this in anyway with the devs? If this is indeed the case, then problem solved.
In the mean time, if people have chosen to leave grinding traps until last, and they want creatures of their own level to grind on (ooeerr!), they why don't they go off to Dathomir? There's plenty of high level creatures out there.
Message Edited by DaveG on 06-25-2005 11:04 PM
Here is the deal. No lofty towers, just the same, we got what we asked for - right wrong or indifferent and now let's deal with it attitude.
A Ranger/Scout with a low trapping level can't trap high level creatures. Regardless of CL. This is an issue that can be addressed by maintaining trapping level with the CL levels. Yes it totally sucks that a person may have to drop some CL to level in trapping.
New people don't have this problem if they trap as they harvest. In fact, it is more than likely that using multiple traps on a creature will increase the trapping xp (likely hell, it does, I do it all the time) to a level at or above the scout xp gained. If this is so, then trapping will be the first line mastered, as it is a singular xp. If this is so, then technically, Joe Baggadonuts can master traps, and be out there taking down Krayts as a fairly low level Ranger/semi-crappy weapons class but with a high trap capability. Chances are slim to none, and slim is on his way outta town, but it is possible given the right circumstances.
It is not impossible to master traps if you want to come into the profession as a high CL. Nothing is impossible. We Rangers prove that by still playing the most gacked up profession in the game and kicking big butt. Yes it would take damn near forever. I agree with that. It sucks, but it is part of the new game we are in.
I think Calc wrote it was wrong to penalize a person coming into the profession with a high CL. Why is that? Works the same for all combat classes, and we are a combat class and traps are our weapons. If I maintain Ranger and drop all of BH to go master another weapons class, I am gonna be limited to a lot of 1 xp creatures until I get good enough to kill anything of consequence. Takng this into consideration, it is exactly as it is with traps at this time. My choices are suck it up and kill 1 xp stuff or drop some Ranger and get more xp per kill. Choices are the name of the game.
We used to be able to dabble in a lot of professions and be good. Not any longer, not and be as good as you were before. We Rangers used to semi suck in combat to include PvE. Kari and I disprove that daily. The game has changed. If you want to dabble now, you take the choice of being encumbered to some degree when you wear armor. If you want to change professions, unless you drop all of combat, it is going to be a pain.
I still believe that traps are our weapon, that the game is working as intended, and for whatever reason the Devs came up with, changing professions will be a longer task than before. What's broken?
No one has been able to state a solid reason why traps are broken. They are linked to CL. Weapons are linked to CL. Traps are our weapons. Nothing broken there is there, unless I am missing something. We get CL raises for getting Scout and Ranger boxes. All trees, even harvesting and camping which are definately not combat related. If not we would all be sucking wind now, at about level 30ish. No one fought harder for this than Owen did and for a good part of that time I was behind him. Granted, we did not see that trap xp would be linked to CL, but it makes sense. I think that as a profession we made out rather decently in the CU. Who was soloing Krayts before? I sure as hell wasn't. Now it's a breeze. Even if p darts weren't as effective I think I still could do it.
The price to pay for combat levels is crappy xp in trapping if your CL outstrips your trapping ability. Does anyone want to go to level 30sih and gain xp for trapping lower level creatures?
JB
JBMat wrote:Here is the deal... we got what we asked for
Actually we didn't. Nobody asked for the combat level system (Whether or not Rangers asked to be included in it is a different matter). The combat level system was a poorly thought-out idea which wasn't required, and it has broken more than it has fixed.
Simple as that.
(Disclaimer: The game always had a level system, but what we now know as the "CL" is a new implementation, and it is this new implementation that is a pile of crap).
Message Edited by DaveG on 06-26-2005 02:36 AM
"No one has been able to state a solid reason why traps are broken. They are linked to CL. Weapons are linked to CL. Traps are our weapons. Nothing broken there is there, unless I am missing something. We get CL raises for getting Scout and Ranger boxes."
But that IS the problem JB. Traps are NOT directly, or solely, hooked to your CL but also to your TL. By the implying that they are hooked to CL only you are promoting a position that would see anyone of the same CL as the target with better than novice scout have a % chance (and by that I mean a realistic % chance, not some theoretical "well, if you threw blah hundred traps at least some would stick").
What people are finding is that if your CL and TL get too far apart you hit problems. Unlike any other combat skill we also have to level up ANOTHER CL raising skill alongside our trapping, this increases the opportunity for things to get out of kilter. Add to that the simple fact that, in order to be able to kill and not be killed you often have to look at raising two lines of the combat profession at about the same rate, in order to keep both your accuracy and defences sufficiently high to be viable against the sort of creature levels that will get you the XP that you need, then youre adding a further complication.
You maintain that 'traps are working as intended', well, all well and fair and, in Dev Speak, that is probably true. It doesn't mean that they are working as they SHOULD or that we should not be trying to improve the situation for the benefit of the majority of players who are experiencing problems.
"I think Calc wrote it was wrong to penalize a person coming into the profession with a high CL. Why is that? Works the same for all combat classes, and we are a combat class and traps are our weapons. If I maintain Ranger and drop all of BH to go master another weapons class, I am gonna be limited to a lot of 1 xp creatures until I get good enough to kill anything of consequence. Takng this into consideration, it is exactly as it is with traps at this time. My choices are suck it up and kill 1 xp stuff or drop some Ranger and get more xp per kill. Choices are the name of the game."
If you wanted to master another combat profession and chose to drop ALL of BH and keep all of Ranger then you'd deserve to be stuck kicking the crud out of CL44 beasties for 1xp a time. Enjoy the cloner trips when they chew you a new seating arrangement too.
If, otoh, you wanted to get into, say, brawler. You could stay at a high level in ranged class, weaken the creature until it was sufficently weak to finish off with unarmed, and get a bit more than 1XP per kill. You'd also still benefit from the (limited but far more than youd' have as a novice brawler) melee defences if you were converting down from the right ranged prof.
However, to suggest that somebody who, for whatever reason, wanted to master Ranger and was already a double combat elite, should have to ditch virtually all their combat skills, in other words, if you want to go scout ranger you have to start at the bottom every time, is frankly nuts and is not something that any other profession is asked to do. And, as the only, and I'll repeat ONLY reason they'd have to do this is to keep their CL equal or no more than a little above their trapping level, then I think it IS fair to say that there is a problem with trapping as it is currently implemented.