CUEmu - Thread Posts

Calculus_Entropy

Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:04 pm

#27

HeavyMG wrote:
I would love to capture high level creature babies and sell them. Ranger is the perfect class for it.

Why? We don't have the Tame skill...why wouldn't CH be the perfect profesion for it? This is a devil's advocate post.

Calculus Entropy
Ranger Blue Glowie Emeritus
Garindan used /areatrack to find Han.

RohmEnari

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:29 pm

#28

I know the Ranger community is gonna hate me for this, but...I have to stand behind the CH's on this. And I am not nor have I ever been a CH, but I see that this makes perfect sense. I have never been terribly fond of the Rangers being the organic harvesters of the galaxy. Maybe that is because I have a different idea in mind as to how I see Ranger. Nevertheless, this idea fits in well with what the Creature Handlers are about. They got nerfed, and now they are trying to find a balance for their profession and are being considerate enough to include the Rangers in this. They could have just said, "screw the Rangers, we will do this without them," but they didn't. They very kindly asked for our input and what did they get in return? People cursing at them and calling the original thread "unholy". I can't begin to express my disappointment in some of the people here for being so callous and not helping someone who merely asked for your help in working out an idea.

Some of you seem to be forgetting that while, yes, we may be losing our market for hides, we are gaining a new market. We can sell our captured animals to CH's for whatever reasonable price we deem fit. And if you were to include in this the idea that Rangers are the only ones with the ability to tan those hides, we are still being kept in the loop.

Well, it is late and I have been working all day, so if this comes across as cranky then thats why. I'm not mad, but you guys practically slapped this person in the face and said "shut the hell up. we don't want any." If you didn't like the idea nor want to contribute to it, you could have just simply said "No thank you. We are not interested."

As for the orginal poster, this is one Master Ranger that thinks your idea has merit and I will be glad to help you flesh out some of the ideas regarding how this would affect Ranger and how we could all gain from this.

Your friendly neighborhood Ranger,

Reyune

Owen-Lars

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:24 am

#29

Calc Wrote:

Owen, I am shocked!

Im sorry for blowing like that calc but this idea hit home.

This idea tries its hardest to hide the fact that it will seriously negatively effect us. Instead of coming up with an idea that wont nerf us or other professions it seems like damage limitation measures have been included to lessen the blow somewhat. What i refer to is the 'oh but you can have a dart' idea.

It seems to me and by looks alot of others this will infact nerf us and personally it seems obvious. I cant believe knowone clicked on before it was posted here of its impact on the ranger and scout profession to the point where someone said "no! this is a bad idea".

I like the idea of furthering the CH profession as i do all others, however i think this idea is very badly thought out and ignorent to other professions in some ways.

Clearly the hides/meats/bones market needs expanding somewhat, but you would expect this to be done by enhancing the primary professions related to that market (i.e. Scout and Ranger professions).

Scouts harvest less than us, so will feel the full force of this proposal maybe even to a greater degree as you will be able to harvest similar amounts whilst not actually being there hunting. Is it fair for scouts and rangers also to be required to spend countless hours running around killing, risking their lives to harvest (which is a major part of what a ranger is)whilst you sit around waiting for the hopper to fill up?

We are currently begging for new harvesting system or renovation of our harvesting system to make it more effective, all your idea does is simply dilute our skill set further.

Ranger: Since the Ranger is the one we are most afraid of alienating, we must with all our might keep them active in this proposal.

This proposal WILL nerf the living hell out of us if it were to be implemented, no doubt about it, giving us an alternative skill (i.e the dart) whilst diluting another (harvesting) is not the way to go and id be very unhappy if this idea was to become realised.

I hope the phrasing in this post better voices my strong disagreement with this proposal.

Once again sorry for the last post

im back to normal now heh

THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER

FelNuruodo

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:04 pm

#30

/Sarcasm on

I love this idea. I believe the ability to trap adult creatures for use in a barn is absolutely wonderful, and will provide a meaningful and lucrative business for the Rangers of the galaxy. A new dart will be wonderful, and through its implementation perhaps the developers will fix the other two traps we have. I don't feel that the only current money making skill I have with the 140 skill points I spend on Ranger will be at all comprimised by this "ultra-harvesting" method of another profession, especially because the developers will implement hide tanning at the same time, allowing us even more business and profit.

/Sarcasm off

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

^^ Sorry to be rude, but I simply had to laugh at this ridiculus proposal, even if I can't spell and my grammar sucks

Rangers spend 140 skill points on thier profession, and only get one skill that helps them make money. Nothing in thier line allows them to kill creatures faster, finish missions faster, or craft worthwhile items. We have one, and only one source of income, and that is harvesting creatures, which we currently only have minor advantages over scouts in. A CH, who has more skillpoints to spend on elite professions then a ranger, or any combat oriented player with minor scout skills can currently harvest more then us in the same amount of time, simply because of thier ability to kill creatures faster. The only redeeming factor is that we like to hunt, and we can only survive by doing it. What you propose will reduce our profit significantly, and effectively wipe out our entire class, except for those ch's who pick up novice ranger to capture pets for thier farms. I'm sorry, but I can see this as nothing but a giant nerf to rangers, and cannot possibly rationalize any reason it should happen.

Message Edited by FelNuruodo on 04-10-2004 12:14 AM

Jagged Nuruodo, 12 PT Chef 13 PT Artisan
FelNu Chef Goods: 2575 5300 Aartan Ridge, Tatooine
Imperial Second Lieutenant

Soontir Fel, Smuggler, Commando, Pilot
Will fly for free. Imperial FP 125/unit, Slice Price varies
Imperial Colonel

SeanBlader

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:11 pm

#31

RohmEnari wrote:

They got nerfed, and now they are trying to find a balance for their profession and are being considerate enough to include the Rangers in this.

Um, they got balanced, call it a nerf if you like but they WE'RE way overpowered before the CL70 patch. For 30less skill pointsthan aRanger, a CH with neitherprofession having any secondary combat skills, I'd bet my account that a CH can out harvest a Ranger, without a farm.

Basically what it comes down to currently is, if CH's get a farm capability, Rangers stop existing. It's pretty plain and simple.

________________________________

Experience the greatest Star Wars saga ever told -- yours.
________________________________

CatAtomic

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:19 pm

#32

Have you guys considered making the corals produce a new resource of some sort? That could clear up the whole harvesting issue, I would think.

Let's say you coral a bunch of creatures with Wooly Hide. Banthas, for instance. Why don't you simply get Wool, rather than Wooly Hide? After all, when you shear a creature in real life, you don't take it's hide. You only take it's wool.

I thinkyour idea sounds very interesting.

Kotha Tull
Master Ranger
Tull Organics- "You can't beat my meat!"

Owen-Lars

Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:20 am

#33

God damn

Somtimes these forums frustrate me so much, last night i THOUGHT it had posted my very long statement of ideas obviously not.

Well im not wrtiing those out again.

THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER

SkyPreacher1

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:39 am

#34

ROFL,

You have no Idea what you are talking about.

I have hunted for a baby bull rancor for weeks, I tapped over 200 lairs trying to find one. Adult Bull Rancors you can find by the hordes but I have yet to find 1 (ONE) baby. Mantigrue screechers are the same. Have you ever went out and got Area Deased by one of these creatures? Cause baby if you could trap an adult you would really have something.

So let's see 200+ lairs of bull rancors, I have to date tapped over 150+ lairs of mantigrue screechers and hmmm no babies, yet I had to fight through hordes of Adults. Nah it wouldn't be a big thing to capture an adult for sale to a CH or to a farm where it could maybe be bred or anything. Nope nothing.

I do hunt resources all the time. MCH not grouped with pet, last nite I was getting 34 units of Avian meat of perleks, I was a bit surprised seeings as the best before was 27. I can harvest meat, the problem is You the Master Rangers should be getting 75 units off the same thing. Do you?

What I thought is this, if you are so broke that the only thing that you make money on is hunting resources maybe you would like another thing for revenue, I guess we were wrong. An adult bull rancor would bring you over 1 million credits, even to put in a corral. Supply and demand being what it is that may go down if a lot were caught. Same for screechers, arachne Queens, etc. Can you see that? From all the previous posts I would say the answer is no.

....and then no matter how hard we get nerfed, we still keep CH because we are still some of the coolest characters on the game.

BOYCOTTING JUMP TO LIGHTSPEED UNTIL COMBAT BALANCE AND GCW REVAMP!
SWG: Quote: Grand moff Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. you my friend are all thats left of their religon. Except for the other 5000 over there...

Nemo0

Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:26 am

#35

SkyPreacher1 wrote:

ROFL,

You have no Idea what you are talking about.

I have hunted for a baby bull rancor for weeks, I tapped over 200 lairs trying to find one. Adult Bull Rancors you can find by the hordes but I have yet to find 1 (ONE) baby. Mantigrue screechers are the same. Have you ever went out and got Area Deased by one of these creatures? Cause baby if you could trap an adult you would really have something.

So let's see 200+ lairs of bull rancors, I have to date tapped over 150+ lairs of mantigrue screechers and hmmm no babies, yet I had to fight through hordes of Adults. Nah it wouldn't be a big thing to capture an adult for sale to a CH or to a farm where it could maybe be bred or anything. Nope nothing.

No offence, but doesn't it sort of defeat the purpose of the creatures being rare? A BE should be able to make a pet with an area disease and higher stats than those (assuming the BE system works as I think it does--I dropped MCH shortly before they added in all the BE changes). So it is more the rarity of the pet that appeals and not the specials (I think). And it also seems that part of your proposal wasn't entirely clear--were you suggesting that an adult pet would be able to be used by a CH? I don't think the Devs would ever agree to that. Part of the idea of catching the babies as pets is that they can be domesticated and trained. An adult is more set in its ways. Breeding is also an unlikely option as that removes the rarity of those creatures. They are rare for a reason (although I'm not entirely sure why...).

I do hunt resources all the time. MCH not grouped with pet, last nite I was getting 34 units of Avian meat of perleks, I was a bit surprised seeings as the best before was 27. I can harvest meat, the problem is You the Master Rangers should be getting 75 units off the same thing. Do you?

We would probably get 45 resources or so off those perleks. That's one of the reasons you see so many complaints about harvesting. And that's part of the reason a proposal like this hits so hard.

What I thought is this, if you are so broke that the only thing that you make money on is hunting resources maybe you would like another thing for revenue, I guess we were wrong. An adult bull rancor would bring you over 1 million credits, even to put in a corral. Supply and demand being what it is that may go down if a lot were caught. Same for screechers, arachne Queens, etc. Can you see that? From all the previous posts I would say the answer is no.

Most Rangers would like another sort of revenue. But trading one source of revenue for another is a bit different. This idea would almost certainly make it so that we would no longer be able to make any money harvesting (I know your proposal was only for hides but giving hide up would lead to another group asking for meat and so on). As for those creatures selling for so much, I doubt it. Because of the supply and demand you are talking about. Adults are easy to find. Capturing them is unlikely to be extremely hard. And adding another person into the resource chain will only increase the overhead as most of them will be looking for some profit.

What you need to realize is what effects this proposal will have on Rangers. Yes, we can trap creatures for the farms. But that won't be a common thing because players will try to take care of the creatures in the farm and they will be more likely to try and breed new ones than pay for them. It will be more of a custom order thing. Right now, I can go out into the wilderness and always come back with something that someone would want. It means I have a RELIABLE source of income. This proposal takes a reliable source of income and trades it for an unreliable one. I know I don't need to run missions for cash because I can harvest. Yes, I would still be able to harvest under this proposal but it would either be in minimal amounts or using a machine. Meaning I couldn't sustain myself on it (hypothetically speaking--I don't need to sell resources because I have the money anyway but a player working up the trees doesn't always have that luxury). And I'm pretty sure that Scouts and Rangers were designed to support themselves off of hunting and not missions. These farms would mean that I can only support myself by trapping adults. And I have no guarantee of being able to sell any adults I trap. So Rangers would be forced to hunt from missions terminals again (which I'm sure the Devs would just love--too much money being added to the economy already).

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

Lythender Nirou
Crazy Bothan

SkyPreacher1

Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:59 am

#36

Nemo,

Apparently rare = extinct. Secondly, if you could trap and tame and train or even trap, corral and sample in the safety of a corral it would be better than trying to sample in the wild because you can get aggroed sampling in the wild and lose your sample because of it. I know my other character is a BE.

Specials are what it is all about, specials and resists and HAM. Unfortunately when I tame a baby i get a nerfed Bull Rancor when it is grown.

That's my point, I would be more than willing to give up the scout privilege of harvesting or be willing to support Rangers in a bid for 2X the harvest rate if that would help.

Again I don't want to take harvesting away, I and many CH's are talking about adding another revenue source. Capturing large animals will be hazardous to your health. Same as taming you can die doing it. But the payout should be worth the risk.

....and then no matter how hard we get nerfed, we still keep CH because we are still some of the coolest characters on the game.

BOYCOTTING JUMP TO LIGHTSPEED UNTIL COMBAT BALANCE AND GCW REVAMP!
SWG: Quote: Grand moff Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. you my friend are all thats left of their religon. Except for the other 5000 over there...

Nemo0

Sun Apr 11, 2004 9:15 am

#37

SkyPreacher1 wrote:

Nemo,

Apparently rare = extinct. Secondly, if you could trap and tame and train or even trap, corral and sample in the safety of a corral it would be better than trying to sample in the wild because you can get aggroed sampling in the wild and lose your sample because of it. I know my other character is a BE.

Specials are what it is all about, specials and resists and HAM. Unfortunately when I tame a baby i get a nerfed Bull Rancor when it is grown.

That's my point, I would be more than willing to give up the scout privilege of harvesting or be willing to support Rangers in a bid for 2X the harvest rate if that would help.

Again I don't want to take harvesting away, I and many CH's are talking about adding another revenue source. Capturing large animals will be hazardous to your health. Same as taming you can die doing it. But the payout should be worth the risk.

As for rare = extinct, would you even want the pet otherwise? If it was as easy as capturing 2 adults and breeding them, would you even bother? The rarity is what makes those pets popular. From what I hear, a good BE pet is easily better than the best wild one.

And the same thing applies to BEs. Right now, it takes a lot of work to make the best pets. You can get the same armor by going to almost any armorsmith. Letting a BE sample without risk means that the same will happen to BE. BE is an interesting profession because there is some risk involved in making stuff. Taking that away makes it the same as any other crafting profession.

As far as harvesting goes, my main concern is not over keeping it Ranger exclusive or anything like that. I am concerned that any automated form of harvesting will remove the need for hunters. If there was something that would let a Novice Scout survive on JUST hunting and scaled up for Rangers then I would not mind automated farms. But I don't see many ways of giving Rangers or Scouts a good way of getting income that doesn't include harvesting. Harvesting is what the Devs gave to Scouts and Rangers so that they could support themselves. Farms existed back in Beta. They were removed because it meant that Scouts and Rangers had no method of support. As stated previously, trapping does give a new method of support. But it is not dependable. I can't go out and trap random creatures while wandering and expect to be able to make any money. I can go out and kill random creatures and harvest them to make money (not nearly as much as I could through directed hunting but I'm sure you get the point).

As I see it, Ranger (and Scout) is a profession that should be designed around going out into the wilderness and exploring. To make that work in any sensible form, I need to be able to make money for doing this. And I need to be able to make money consistently. If I stay out of town for a week, I should be able to come back with something that I can sell to pay my costs and make a bit of profit on top (without having to use my lots for harvesters and such--I use all 10 of my lots and none of them hold a harvester). Right now, harvesting supports this. I have a guarantee of being able to sell what I harvest and I can make a decent living off of it (I personally don't bother selling but that's because I don't need the money and my friends need the resources). Before I can agree to give up harvesting, I would need something similar to replace it. And there is not much out there that would do this while still keeping some level of balance. That is where the main problem comes in.

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

Lythender Nirou
Crazy Bothan

RohmEnari

Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:38 pm

#38

SeanBlader wrote:

Um, they got balanced, call it a nerf if you like but they WE'RE way overpowered before the CL70 patch. For 30 less skill points than a Ranger, a CH with neither profession having any secondary combat skills, I'd bet my account that a CH can out harvest a Ranger, without a farm.

Basically what it comes down to currently is, if CH's get a farm capability, Rangers stop existing. It's pretty plain and simple.

Nerf. Balance. Whatever. Bad choice of words on my part. I'm sorry. But the idea is that the CH community is trying to find something to do other than be a PvP or PvE centric community. They are trying to play more towards the crafting game. The CH community has changed in my humble opinion. Long gone are the kids who would take CH because it was the overpowered profession that ruled all others. Now it is composed of people that are dedicated to their chosen profession just as we are. If CH's get the farm, I don't agree that Rangers will stop existing. Our role will change. Of that there is no doubt. I don't fear change. I welcome it.And keep in mind, the devs did say we are supposed to be the ultimate creature HUNTERS. Not harvesters.

CatAtomic wrote:

Have you guys considered making the corals produce a new resource of some sort? That could clear up the whole harvesting issue, I would think.

Let's say you coral a bunch of creatures with Wooly Hide. Banthas, for instance. Why don't you simply get Wool, rather than Wooly Hide? After all, when you shear a creature in real life, you don't take it's hide. You only take it's wool.

I think your idea sounds very interesting.

Now THAT is what I was talking about. Instead of just bashing the idea, this guy offered his ideas to help make it work. It may not be possible, but darn it...at least he tried.

Your friendly neighborhood Ranger,

Reyune

BZebub

Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:57 pm

#39

sky,

i think the CH community needs to find their own specialization, and not ask for bits and pieces of the ranger profession. they are different. under this proposal, they might as well be merged together (which would probably solve a lot of problems anyways...but thats not the point)

Ranger Archive

Thread: A CH proposal affecting Ranger.