Ranger Archive

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

From a programmers point of view, the reuse of code and also not needing to check wether PvP/PvE is quite tempting... Reuse is ok, but to handle Rifleplayer vs NPC different from Rifleplayer vs Player might be more work then they want to do.

If the new combat engine is "universal" (for all situations, PvP/PvE/EvE) then this check will not be made!

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If these people where any good a code reuse we wouldn't be having the problem with droids in groups, lol.

I doubt they would make all ranged profs compleatly useless in PvE. And thats what this would do.

Encouraging to say the least. I love my proff, and if they phase us down to where it looks like we're going, I'm, done with this game.

I hate the way Jedi are played, I hate the fact that our roles are complete crap and we, along with the smugglers seem to be the b@stard step children. This game in terms of playability and the future seem to be going down hill fast.


Plunk

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Rolfie wrote:

Sony is sure making it hard for me to stay my prefered profession Ranger.

The 14 points in ranged support is now a big decision for me. I imagine several people playing Ranger toons are contemplating what changes they will need to do to continue playing a ranger.

Do I drop the force skills that have enhanced Riflemen?

Do I drop some Rilfemen skills?

Or do I drop some Ranger skills? Right now its toss up drop survival line or drop the trapping line.

I have been saying to myself and everyone else wait til the Ranger Revamp it will get better.

Butplaying a Ranger is getting hard to justify the skill point cost.

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yeah, this is a problem. and we will be very hindered until are revamp, which means that the month or two post curb till then, could be very hard times for all of us.

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

PLEASE IGNORE PREVIOUS POST... SOME SENTENCE WENT WRONG AND I CANNOT EDIT

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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darmokVtS wrote:
In a balanced game you are supposed to lose when outnumbered unless the 2 are quite clueless and/or you very good , this example is a non-issue too.

Message Edited by darmokVtS on 03-30-2005 03:33 PM

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Is it?

Consider oppposite view... 1 TKM and 2 rifleman... picture it? Now think hard...

OW and also... is the term considering DB only used in PvP ??? Or also PvE? In latter form, the rifleman will have a huge problem going up against NPC mobs

Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 03-30-2005 03:43 PM

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2 riflemen wouldmow down a TKM. Once the TKM is incapped (remember that there will still be incapacitation), the rifleman can run up and get the DB. No, this doesn't necesarily work in a big fight, but in a 2 on 1 situation, the TKM is hosed.

Now, seeing what I have seen of the CU documents, do I want to be a Master Rifleman and only travel with another Master Rifleman? No way. You would certainly want a crowd control or mezzer partner.

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Wrong... Guess you never been a TKM...?

How do you know whatI have been? I have been TKM twice, Rifleman, Carbineer, Smuggler, BH, Pikeman (currently), and Pistoleer. All of these with Master Ranger. See my response later on about the old system, vs. the new system. They aren't comparable.

According to the CU they have high def and high off, which makes them formidable against rifleman who don't have def at all.

TKM is listed as havingvery strongdefense and only moderate offense. They also have to close to melee range to do any damage. 2 rifleman have very strong offense (times 2). Also, the Rifleman can gets hits on the TKM before the TKM can get hits on the Rifleman.

Second, unless that skill is taken away, the TKM has PowerOfWill... Even if incapped he can regain conciousness almost instantly and have a bit more health, combine with a shot of the healing and unless the riflemen are prepared, they find themselves in melee range with a TKM...

Force of Will removes the incapped state. Worst case scenario: a TKM gets incapped. If he uses Force of Will, it will have a cool down timer. This gives the Riflemen a chance to incap him again. Remember, there are timers being put in to prevent professions being overpowered.

Ow and WHY would I now want to party with another rifleman? Why would I not want to party with another rifleman? In fact DaveG (MR/MRifleman) and we did this quite often. So if/whenever we go PvP we have a disadvantage... More reason for me to stay out of PvP. In PvE we kind of rule the creatures.
Just my .2c

You are comparing the CU to the current system. The entire system is going to be completely new. What you can do now is NOT what you will be able to do after the CU. Prime example: any player can completely negate the HAM costs associated with armor and specials under the current system. This is not possible under the new system (that's one reason they are doing the CU).

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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darmokVtS wrote:
In a balanced game you are supposed to lose when outnumbered unless the 2 are quite clueless and/or you very good , this example is a non-issue too.

Message Edited by darmokVtS on 03-30-2005 03:33 PM

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Is it?

Consider oppposite view... 1 TKM and 2 rifleman... picture it? Now think hard...

OW and also... is the term considering DB only used in PvP ??? Or also PvE? In latter form, the rifleman will have a huge problem going up against NPC mobs

Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 03-30-2005 03:43 PM

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2 riflemen wouldmow down a TKM. Once the TKM is incapped (remember that there will still be incapacitation), the rifleman can run up and get the DB. No, this doesn't necesarily work in a big fight, but in a 2 on 1 situation, the TKM is hosed.

Now, seeing what I have seen of the CU documents, do I want to be a Master Rifleman and only travel with another Master Rifleman? No way. You would certainly want a crowd control or mezzer partner.

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According to the CU they have high def and high off, which makes them formidable against rifleman who don't have def at all.

TKM is listed as havingvery strongdefense and only moderate offense. They also have to close to melee range to do any damage. 2 rifleman have very strong offense (times 2). Also, the Rifleman can gets hits on the TKM before the TKM can get hits on the Rifleman.

TKM Strong Defense Melee+Medium Offense Melee vs Rifleman Low Defense Melee/Strong Offense RANGED. When in close quarters, the TKM should own the Rifleman (as it should be as far as I'm concerned). Rifleman hits only usefull when ranged.

Second, unless that skill is taken away, the TKM has PowerOfWill... Even if incapped he can regain conciousness almost instantly and have a bit more health, combine with a shot of the healing and unless the riflemen are prepared, they find themselves in melee range with a TKM...

Force of Will removes the incapped state. Worst case scenario: a TKM gets incapped. If he uses Force of Will, it will have a cool down timer. This gives the Riflemen a chance to incap him again. Remember, there are timers being put in to prevent professions being overpowered.

Quote:"

Wind-Up

The windup phase is the time between when the user performs an action to begin a special move to when the move actually takes effect.

When using an action with a wind-up there will be the visual UI element, as well as particle effects and/or animation and sound effects to indicate the user is beginning a special action.

Not all actions have wind-up but those that do will be canceled if the player moves.

The PowerOfWill with a Wind-Up makes no sense. The skill is used to get up as soon as possible AFTER an incap. Unless it's tested and proven otherwise, Ithink it's safe to say the skill won't have a wind-up.

Cool-Down

The cool-down phase is the time after the action is performed when that action cannot be executed again.

All actions belong to a "cool-down group".

Actions which share the same cool-down group cannot be executed until the cool-down timer expires.

So again, until tested, it's speculation, but I suppose that PowerOfWill followed by another PowerOfWill will be out of the question. Which is also rather futile. However, if attacks or other actions are in a different cool-donw group, the TKM can heal himself, or do an attack.... Or switch gears to start playing a different combat class alltogether, Rifleman still has the disadvantage.

If rifleman stays away, he can't kill TKM; if he walks toward TKM, TKM has time to recover... If TKM incaps Rifleman, there is no escape. It's almost possible to replace TKM in previous sentences forany melee profession. Unless 3 times Incap = Out (DB) as well, then Rifleman must staywhere they are.

Cool-down is visualized by disabling all icons in the same cool-down group. No sound effect or animation is associated with cool-down since the player will be doing other things.

"

Ow and WHY would I now want to party with another rifleman? Why would I not want to party with another rifleman? In fact DaveG (MR/MRifleman) and we did this quite often. So if/whenever we go PvP we have a disadvantage... More reason for me to stay out of PvP. In PvE we kind of rule the creatures.
Just my .2c

You are comparing the CU to the current system. The entire system is going to be completely new. What you can do now is NOT what you will be able to do after the CU. Prime example: any player can completely negate the HAM costs associated with armor and specials under the current system. This is not possible under the new system (that's one reason they are doing the CU).
And that is the biggest problem a lot of people are having. I do understand the needs for change, but some changes are not logic.

A better option would be for rifleman to be able to DB after a long wind-up period. Guess we will wait and see how it works out in beta.

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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darmokVtS wrote:In a balanced game you are supposed to lose when outnumbered unless the 2 are quite clueless and/or you very good , this example is a non-issue too.

Message Edited by darmokVtS on 03-30-2005 03:33 PM

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Is it?

Consider oppposite view... 1 TKM and 2 rifleman... picture it? Now think hard...

OW and also... is the term considering DB only used in PvP ??? Or also PvE? In latter form, the rifleman will have a huge problem going up against NPC mobs

Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 03-30-2005 03:43 PM

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2 riflemen wouldmow down a TKM. Once the TKM is incapped (remember that there will still be incapacitation), the rifleman can run up and get the DB. No, this doesn't necesarily work in a big fight, but in a 2 on 1 situation, the TKM is hosed.

Now, seeing what I have seen of the CU documents, do I want to be a Master Rifleman and only travel with another Master Rifleman? No way. You would certainly want a crowd control or mezzer partner.

---

According to the CU they have high def and high off, which makes them formidable against rifleman who don't have def at all.

TKM is listed as havingvery strongdefense and only moderate offense. They also have to close to melee range to do any damage. 2 rifleman have very strong offense (times 2). Also, the Rifleman can gets hits on the TKM before the TKM can get hits on the Rifleman.

TKM Strong Defense Melee+Medium Offense Melee vs Rifleman Low Defense Melee/Strong Offense RANGED. When in close quarters, the TKM should own the Rifleman (as it should be as far as I'm concerned). Rifleman hits only usefull when ranged.

I agree that any melee profession at melee ranger should pwn a rangerd profession...youseemed concerned over this...has that changed?

Second, unless that skill is taken away, the TKM has PowerOfWill... Even if incapped he can regain conciousness almost instantly and have a bit more health, combine with a shot of the healing and unless the riflemen are prepared, they find themselves in melee range with a TKM...

Force of Will removes the incapped state. Worst case scenario: a TKM gets incapped. If he uses Force of Will, it will have a cool down timer. This gives the Riflemen a chance to incap him again. Remember, there are timers being put in to prevent professions being overpowered.

Quote:"

Wind-UpThe windup phase is the time between when the user performs an action to begin a special move to when the move actually takes effect.

When using an action with a wind-up there will be the visual UI element, as well as particle effects and/or animation and sound effects to indicate the user is beginning a special action.

Not all actions have wind-up but those that do will be canceled if the player moves.

The PowerOfWill with a Wind-Up makes no sense. The skill is used to get up as soon as possible AFTER an incap. Unless it's tested and proven otherwise, Ithink it's safe to say the skill won't have a wind-up.

I agree, but maybe there should be a short wind-up, just so you can't get up immediately. It should have a shorter wind up than the time it takes to wind up a DB.

Cool-Down

The cool-down phase is the time after the action is performed when that action cannot be executed again.

All actions belong to a "cool-down group".

Actions which share the same cool-down group cannot be executed until the cool-down timer expires.

So again, until tested, it's speculation, but I suppose that PowerOfWill followed by another PowerOfWill will be out of the question. Which is also rather futile. However, if attacks or other actions are in a different cool-donw group, the TKM can heal himself, or do an attack.... Or switch gears to start playing a different combat class alltogether, Rifleman still has the disadvantage.

As you said, we need to test to be sure, but I would have to assume that all actions use the same wind up and cool down queues (like the current queue...if you fire a headshot, you have to wait before you can heal.

If rifleman stays away, he can't kill TKM; if he walks toward TKM, TKM has time to recover... If TKM incaps Rifleman, there is no escape. It's almost possible to replace TKM in previous sentences forany melee profession. Unless 3 times Incap = Out (DB) as well, then Rifleman must staywhere they are.

Cool-down is visualized by disabling all icons in the same cool-down group. No sound effect or animation is associated with cool-down since the player will be doing other things.

"

Ow and WHY would I now want to party with another rifleman? Why would I not want to party with another rifleman? In fact DaveG (MR/MRifleman) and we did this quite often. So if/whenever we go PvP we have a disadvantage... More reason for me to stay out of PvP. In PvE we kind of rule the creatures.Just my .2c

You are comparing the CU to the current system. The entire system is going to be completely new. What you can do now is NOT what you will be able to do after the CU. Prime example: any player can completely negate the HAM costs associated with armor and specials under the current system. This is not possible under the new system (that's one reason they are doing the CU).And that is the biggest problem a lot of people are having. I do understand the needs for change, but some changes are not logic.

Bingo! You agree with many of the people who had access to the CU forums as well as man y of the people who have provided feedback in the public threads .

A better option would be for rifleman to be able to DB after a long wind-up period. Guess we will wait and see how it works out in beta.

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For the record, I am neither for nor against the new DB rules. I hate PvP, and I doubt the CU will change my feelings about PvP

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Lol! It's too hard to respond to individual items without the qoutes! I tried to find a way to make the post leaner, but I gave up .

I found a way for myself to cope with all the mixed feelings and fears I have about the CU and my loved Ranger Profession.

I bought myself a PS2 and some games. I hope I still want to play SWG when I come back after the CU and our revamp.

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Nastzguehl wrote:
I found a way for myself to cope with all the mixed feelings and fears I have about the CU and my loved Ranger Profession.

I bought myself a PS2 and some games. I hope I still want to play SWG when I come back after the CU and our revamp.

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lol Thank God for Xbox: KOTOR 1&2 and BattleFront!!!! now there's three games with UBER StarWarsyness!!!

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